Large Map and New Civilizations are now playable

[Nyayr]

Knowing the Ai, it likely matters on what side the Galleon found land... and the settler got out where a city is build.

 

[Nyayr]

(BC 3000, monarch/epic )Started a Prussian run and failed it before even started in 1700, as around 1600 The French likely had 8 industrial techs or the Arabs, or maybe Spain? they all got rifleman. Wonders of late industrial era are build, like Abbey Mills, Metropolitan and the Nobel Prize,

Everyone had pretty much muskets, besides England, who is medieval.

Seeing multiple nations are this far ahead, it hints that Prussia with Arquebus cannot manage, against stacks of muskets and rifles.

This is the 9 july version (seeing some folders are 9 july), as latest breaks other saves so not downloaded that yet.

Also a small area of 3 in North Germany not becomes German and stay a mix, I founded Brandenburg not Berlin, so maybe that caused that?.)

 

[Temüjin VIII]

I'm playing an Ottoman game right now, and I'm not sure if they should historically have Fanaticism or Syncretism. From what I know, I think the Ottomans imposed a hybrid of the two civics, bearing both the tolerance of Syncretism and the zealotry of Fanaticism.

Maybe we can add a new aspect of the Devşirme UP along with the current draft one? Devşirme, after all, revolves around drafting from the Christian populations of the Ottoman domain.

Fanaticism allows non-state religion spread and does not bring unhappiness from non-state religions
OR
Syncretism also provides +2 XP in cities with state religion and +10 shrine gold cap (if we go the Syncretism route, Ottomans should spawn with Syncretism)

I also suggest we do not remove Orthodoxy at least from Greece and Thrace (can also include Anatolia) on Byzantine collapse. It somehow hurts Ottoman UHV1. In my current game, Orthodoxy disappeared from Constantinople, so now I can't build the Topkapı Palace.

 

[Dracosolon]

Yeah, on some level it's a shame Tolerance was removed/reworked into Syncretism, since it felt like a good transition toward the modern concept of Secularism that many states experienced. I guess it can still be implied by previous civics like Clergy/Monasticism (I'd argue Syncretism is too specific a thing for many historical cases).

 

[Nyayr]

Suffism is 'somewhat' Syncretic Islam and was pretty big among Ottomans, and especially in the Balkans and spread wide under Ottoman rule.

 

[triplebassist]

3000 BC Arabs are incredibly strong.

(BC 3000, monarch/epic )Started a Prussian run and failed it before even started in 1700, as around 1600 The French likely had 8 industrial techs or the Arabs, or maybe Spain? they all got rifleman. Wonders of late industrial era are build, like Abbey Mills, Metropolitan and the Nobel Prize,

Everyone had pretty much muskets, besides England, who is medieval.

Seeing multiple nations are this far ahead, it hints that Prussia with Arquebus cannot manage, against stacks of muskets and rifles.

This is the 9 july version (seeing some folders are 9 july), as latest breaks other saves so not downloaded that yet.

Also a small area of 3 in North Germany not becomes German and stay a mix, I founded Brandenburg not Berlin, so maybe that caused that?.)

The Arabs are superpowered on 3000 BC starts because the Middle East is so well developed by all the ancient civs. China and whoever controls India do really well too for the same reasons.

 

[AOS9001]

Unfortunately there's no way to simulate the Persian-Roman wars that devastated the region just before the rise of the Arabs... except through a scenario, which we have already.

 

[Nyayr]

3000 BC Arabs are incredibly strong.

The Arabs are superpowered on 3000 BC starts because the Middle East is so well developed by all the ancient civs. China and whoever controls India do really well too for the same reasons.

Makes sense, assume the French had a massive boost from Rome then, as Paris easily can pop to 10 or 12 under the former Celtic cities conquered by Rome?

The French were by 1700 nearly in the Modern age, same as the Arabs.

 

[triplebassist]

I actually haven't noticed Europe being affected as heavily, probably because the barbarians units that collapse Rome pillage a lot of tile improvements.

 

[Temüjin VIII]

Unfortunately there's no way to simulate the Persian-Roman wars that devastated the region just before the rise of the Arabs... except through a scenario, which we have already.

Iirc there's an already existing mechanic during civ collapse that downgrades Cottages. Maybe this can also include destroying other random improvements?

 

[Nyayr]

I notice the Arabs have a strong start they claim a huge area of fertile Egypt, Persia and Levant often with very huge cities. They crush the Byzantines early on, the Turks at times never appear even or are quickly dispatched, because they can't dent them, due to the massive armies.

They also seem much smarter, as they in my case vassalized the Moors and Spain. Spain was also very far ahead as a vassal, but general speaking everyone in Europe was about half an era or 1-1.5 ahead of Prussia.

 

[TsimTsigal]

Suffism is 'somewhat' Syncretic Islam and was pretty big among Ottomans, and especially in the Balkans and spread wide under Ottoman rule.

Tbf Sufism was way more impactful and widespread during the Golden Age of Islamic Culture, and is much closer to Monasticism civic (i know that the Sufi aren't exactly monks, but whole idea of an order of religious individuals who spend their lives aiming for spiritual purification and dabble in arts and sciences a lot kinda fits the idea).

I think Ottoman UP already rather faitfully represent unique "fanatically syncretic" (or "syncretically fanatic") Ottoman approach to religion. You WANT other religions to be able to raise conscripts (and yeah, Orthodoxy dwindles a bit too fast now). Regarding the civic representation, i'd say it's probably Clergy.

I notice the Arabs have a strong start

As i've mentioned on release, Near East is overbuffed at the moment. Especially noticeable with Jerusalem, which used to be an awful city that you can't even destroy and resettle because it's Judaism HS, and now it's top tier powerhouse.

 

[AOS9001]

The Near East’s resource surplus makes sense for the bronze and iron ages when there’s so many civs crammed in that area. When it comes under the rule of one civ (Persia, Rome/Byzantium, Arabs) it gets a little crazy.

 

[Leoreth]

Maybe it makes sense to have a bit of a resource decline there.

 

[1SDANi]

Considering Arabia was a massive innovator in the sciences of medicine and sanitation, perhaps working flood plains could be given more unhealthiness, that way cities with many nearby flood plains wouldn't scale as well as their population grows?

 

[Dracosolon]

At the very least I'm glad that Jerusalem now has more to offer than just shrine income.

 

[Glorfindel of Gondolin]

Well, the middle east should be powerful because it was the center of civilization for most of human history.
It functions perfectly in the ancient- medival eras, but gets overpowered later on.
Maybe instead of physical impact on the map, there should be just bad modifiers for the empires that usually grab it too easily, like Arabia and the ottomans.
That way the region retains it's importance and value, while mostly benefiting the smaller kingdoms (and there are many of them) that each get a slice of the cake.
Also there could be some barbarian uprisings and improvement razings that may occur from time to time (initial Arab and ottoman conquest cound downgrade some improvements, mongol invasions for example).

 

[Nyayr]

Do Seljuk invasions still exist? Because I never see in later games the Arabs ever beaten by them.

 

[Leoreth]

It's a corollary problem of their economic strength.

Another thing to tackle is the number of floodplains in Mesopotamia I think. Salinization was a real problem by the Middle Ages.

 

[Osborneman]

Do Seljuk invasions still exist? Because I never see in later games the Arabs ever beaten by them.

Yes. They hit some northern Arabian cities such as Baghdad and Jerusalem, but they don't go further south then that and so they're never going to collapse Arabia if that's what you're asking for. The Ottomans are the primary existential threat to Arabia.