1. We have added the ability to collapse/expand forum categories and widgets on forum home.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. All Civ avatars are brought back and available for selection in the Avatar Gallery! There are 945 avatars total.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. To make the site more secure, we have installed SSL certificates and enabled HTTPS for both the main site and forums.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Civ6 is released! Order now! (Amazon US | Amazon UK | Amazon CA | Amazon DE | Amazon FR)
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Dismiss Notice
  6. Forum account upgrades are available for ad-free browsing.
    Dismiss Notice

Lategame Slowdown

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by MilesBeyond, Feb 8, 2015.

  1. Nor'easter

    Nor'easter Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2007
    Messages:
    1,247
    I haven't played Magister's mod, so can't comment on that.

    I do remember that in regular FfH2 it was one of the patches, I think patch h, that merged in the AI from Wild Mana (as it was called at the time) and resulted in the AI building monster stacks, much larger than it used to. Although Kael did issue more patches after that, the SoD problem was never truly fixed, as i recall.

    Someone also mentioned increasing inflation. I know Kael reduced inflation in FfH2 compared to BtS. I don't remember if he offered a specific reason, but BtS has many more late-game buildings to boost your economy, unlike FfH2, so that might be one reason for a lower inflation rate.
     
  2. Jojo_Fr

    Jojo_Fr Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2013
    Messages:
    245
    Location:
    France
    - I got a technical interrogation for the experts, about the slowness or quickness of Civ : if you have an expansive and powerfull materials : processors, RAM and graphic card, can you fight and reduce without limit, these slownless in the game ?

    - If yes it would mean that in future times, Civ IV will be very fast including in late game with super stacks ?
     
  3. A Moon

    A Moon The "A" is silent

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2009
    Messages:
    682
    Location:
    Me.
    I can't prove, but suspect that the causes of late-game slowdown, particularly with certain modmods, wouldn't be hugely helped by better hardware.
     
  4. God-Emperor

    God-Emperor Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2009
    Messages:
    3,551
    Location:
    Texas
    Civ4 is single-threaded in nature. Aside from maybe a few DirectX related things in the graphics engine and maybe some of the disk I/O for writing log files and perhaps some other trivial things like that, it only uses one CPU core.

    It doesn't really use more than 1 core of a CPU to any significant degree. So a CPU that is "better" becasue it has more cores and/or hyperthreading will do nothing for you. The only thing that matters is the processing power of a single core. So a CPU with a higher clock rate than another of the same architecture will give you more performance. Newer generation CPUs may also give you slightly better performance at the same clock speed since they have improvements that usually add, on average, a couple of percent each generation. Since Civ4's executable is not being rebuilt each CPU generation, various added features in newer CPUs don't do anything for you (extensions like AVX, which first appeared in CPUs in 2011, and such), and it is unlikely that recompiled DLLs will use these since they are built using the same old compiler and libraries that don't use them for anything either.

    So that all boils down to better performance from higher clock speed and architectural improvements in newer CPUs. This is why the fastest clocked Intel processor of the newest generation is the best you can do, currently. AMD processors have more cores, which does nothing for Civ4, and while they have higher clock speeds they get much less done per clock cycle so a 4GHz Intel CPU is faster for this than a 5GHz AMD CPU. If future CPUs continue to have better single threaded performance, that will carry over to Civ4. But in recent years the rate this has happened has been pretty slow - each generation of Intel CPUs is maybe 100MHz faster at a given price point (which is not much of a gain when it is already over 3GHz) and gets something like 0% to maybe 5% more work done per Hz (they actually alternate, with 0 to 1% in one generation step and 3-5% the next, then back to 0-1% since every second generation is a new internal architecture with the ones between being process shrinks with only minor tweaks to the functioning - this is called the "tick-tock" progression where the "tick" is a shrink and a "tock" is a new core design).

    As far as I know, the one exception to this is, to a very limited extent, the Caveman 2 Cosmos mod any anything that uses its DLL (the new version of Rise of Mankind: A new Dawn and the Rocks 2 Rockets mod, which I did, are the only 2 mods that I know of that use it). That mod added a little multithreading in the DLL. But not a lot. It can trim a bit off the end turn processing because the barbarian and animal spawning code will use more than one thread, and there is a little somewhere in the city processing although I don't remember what that covers (possibly choosing what to produce, which is actually a large chunk of what they do each turn). One thing that reduces the effect of this approach is the "turbo" mode a lot of CPUs have, which increases the clock speed of CPUs when not all of their cores are active and their temperature is low enough - adding multithreading can make it fall out of turbo mode, or use a smaller clock speed increase, so the cores it is using run slower which can negate at least some of the speed gain from the multithreading (and the complexities of multithreading can make the processing take longer just from the things you have to do to get it to work properly). The net effect is only a small improvement, but every little bit helps when the end-of-turn times are really long.
     
  5. Jojo_Fr

    Jojo_Fr Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2013
    Messages:
    245
    Location:
    France
    Oh ok. It's horrible. I did not knew that. So unless a genious made a mod to manage the multi processesoring, these slowdown problems will never been solved. :(

    I opened a topic about this question : Link.
     
  6. Bad Player

    Bad Player Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2005
    Messages:
    3,530
    Location:
    (Bris)Vegas!
    That's a really interesting post god-emporer! I'm thinking of upgrading my computer so I'll bear that in mind. What about games like Skyrim? Is there a type of CPU that is best for those type of games?
     
  7. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko WM junkie

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2005
    Messages:
    7,790
    Location:
    Seyda Neen, Vvardenfell
    skyrim uses two cores, the best cpu you can get for it is an intel i5 K series, i.e. one of the overclockable ones.
     
  8. Bad Player

    Bad Player Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2005
    Messages:
    3,530
    Location:
    (Bris)Vegas!
    Intel Core i5 works better than Intel Core i7 for Skyrim? (I'm not going to do any funny stuff myself with overclocking, I'd just get the shop to upgrade my computer)
     
  9. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko WM junkie

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2005
    Messages:
    7,790
    Location:
    Seyda Neen, Vvardenfell
    If money is not a problem get the i7-4790k, it's definitely the best cpu you can get for gaming currently. i5 are a lot less expensive though, and offer similar performance in games.
     
  10. Terkhen

    Terkhen Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2011
    Messages:
    875
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Spain
    I thought that this thread was completely offtopic already when people started talking about Civilization IV's game design. It seems that I was wrong.
     
  11. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko WM junkie

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2005
    Messages:
    7,790
    Location:
    Seyda Neen, Vvardenfell
    incidentally, those are also the best cpu you can get for civ4 :p
     
  12. Terkhen

    Terkhen Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2011
    Messages:
    875
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Spain
  13. sunbeam

    sunbeam Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2012
    Messages:
    281
    But that is the issue with it.

    Or at least part of it.

    I don't feel qualified on whether to comment on technical issues like whether Civ 4 will use all the cpu cores or whatnot.

    But I do know that you do not get the same kinds of slowdowns in late game Civ 5 as Civ 4 on what appear to be similar map sizes (if anything Civ 5 maps seem bigger).

    There were actually some mods like Orbis (which I really liked) that were impossible for me to finish. I'd have to get to round 400 and say "this is what would happen" and quit the game.
     
  14. Bad Player

    Bad Player Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2005
    Messages:
    3,530
    Location:
    (Bris)Vegas!
    Is this the best chart to look at or is there a better comparison for gaming? Which i5 is good for gaming?
    http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/cpu-charts-2015/-36-Total-Time,Marque_fbrandx14,3728.html

    I currently have a i7-3770 CPU @ 3.40GHz and I want to compare its performance against these to see if it's worth upgrading.
     
  15. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko WM junkie

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2005
    Messages:
    7,790
    Location:
    Seyda Neen, Vvardenfell
    it's not worth upgrading, you already have a kickass cpu :)
     
  16. Bad Player

    Bad Player Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2005
    Messages:
    3,530
    Location:
    (Bris)Vegas!
    I'm thinking of upgrading, are any of these other components worth upgrading (any of them a weak link in the chain?):
    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680 4038MB
     
  17. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko WM junkie

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2005
    Messages:
    7,790
    Location:
    Seyda Neen, Vvardenfell
    the 680 is still a very good gpu, if you are not in a hurry I would recommend to wait until the nvidia 1000 series which should provide a large performance increase over the current 900 one

    also, directx 12 will allow you to squeeze a lot more performance from your cpu once it's released
     
  18. Bad Player

    Bad Player Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2005
    Messages:
    3,530
    Location:
    (Bris)Vegas!
    Ok so don't bother upgrading? I was having performance issues with skyrim (modded a fair bit too) so that's why i was tempted to upgrade.

    Also I want to post my motherboard and RAM when I work out what I've got...
     
  19. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko WM junkie

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2005
    Messages:
    7,790
    Location:
    Seyda Neen, Vvardenfell
    what resolution are you playing at?
     
  20. Bad Player

    Bad Player Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2005
    Messages:
    3,530
    Location:
    (Bris)Vegas!
    I haven't played Skyrim for a while now tbh...


    Are there any components worth upgrading out of this list (found the receipt)? Maybe more RAM at least??:
    - Corsair HX850v2 850W ATX power supply, 80 PLUS GOLD
    - Seagate SATA3 2TB 7200RPM Barracuda 64mb cache
    - Corsair 16GB (2x 8GB) CML 16GX3M2A1600C10 DDR3 1600MHz CL10 LP Vengeance Unbuffered DIMM memory with X
    - ASUS P8Z77-V PRO P8Z77-V PRO.Z77 4xDDR3 3xPCI-E16 GBL SATA3 USB3.0 RA
    - ASUS GeForce GTX 680 Top DirectCU II Overclocked
     

Share This Page