Latin....... the start of modern languages

[Zhuge_Liang]

Is it true that Latin, the language of the romans, started an evolution in western language?

 

[Mirc]

Depends how you define "western languages".

Latin was indeed the only language of a unified, developed, civilized and cultured place in western Europe (and central, by western I mean this time "everything west of Greece"), for a very long time. Also all Romance languages (Italian, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Romanian, Catalan, etc) are direct descendants of Latin and English is very heavily influenced by it too (with over 40% of the vocabulary of Latin origin).

 

[SG-17]

Depends how you define "western languages".

Latin was indeed the only language of a unified, developed, civilized and cultured place in western Europe (and central, by western I mean this time "everything west of Greece"), for a very long time. Also all Romance languages (Italian, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Romanian, Catalan, etc) are direct descendants of Latin and English is very heavily influenced by it too (with over 40% of the vocabulary of Latin origin).

My Latin teacher says 60%.
But nevertheless Latin was the base language for those we would think as western. Even if the language is not of Latin origin, most European languages use the Latin Alphabet.
Plus it is the language of science and medicine.

 

[Mirc]

My Latin teacher says 60%.

Might be, though I think it's closer to 50%.

Edit: Wiki says 56-57% so I think you're right.

Latin has also been an official language in most countries of Europe until very recently, and was (and still is!) the language of the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[Verbose]

Is it true that Latin, the language of the romans, started an evolution in western language?

What meant by "evolution" here?

It was highly influential obviously, but it's not as if languages prior to Latin were somehow less sophisticated (try Greek for sophistication) than either Latin or later languages.

 

[scherbchen]

latin, especially *vulgar* latin (i am off on my terminology here, surely it is called differently in english... it ought to refer to anything post 50 AD -though even Cicero used some of *vulgar latin's* forms- that was actually used by the populace of any roman province at the time) is the origin of the romance languages. That incudes spanish, italian, rumanian, french, occitan, portugese, english by association (norman conquest, even though english is not a romance language it is heavily influenced by one of its decendants).

so yes, it was the birthing grounds for the romance languages. it had an immense influence on english (not only via the norman conquest, also courtesy off the renaissance). personally I would go so far as to name it the most important language up until today.

 

[scherbchen]

What meant by "evolution" here?

It was highly influential obviously, but it's not as if languages prior to Latin were somehow less sophisticated (try Greek for sophistication) than either Latin or later languages.

you will have to admit though that most loan-words used by the english language are borrowed from the french/latin. Sure, some are taken from the Greek language... but that is mostly due to Latin borrowing from the greek and to the renaissance deifying anything that existed prior to 1066.

PS: in this post words have come from

latin/french origin: 6++
germanic roots: 3+

 

[Mirc]

latin, especially *vulgar* latin (i am off on my terminology here, surely it is called differently in english... it ought to refer to anything post 50 AD -though even Cicero used some of *vulgar latin's* forms- that was actually used by the populace of any roman province at the time) is the origin of the romance languages. That incudes spanish, italian, rumanian, french, occitan, portugese, english by association (norman conquest, even though english is not a romance language it is heavily influenced by one of its decendants).

so yes, it was the birthing grounds for the romance languages. it had an immense influence on english (not only via the norman conquest, also courtesy off the renaissance). personally I would go so far as to name it the most important language up until today.

Vulgar Latin is the correct name in English, so you didn't make any mistake with the name.

An interesting fact is that some Romance languages do show a limited number of features inherited directly from classical Latin, but those are few and usually very conservative languages.

 

[Portugal]

(Italian, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Romanian, Catalan, etc)QUOTE]

Catalan = Spanish

 

[Portugal]

Yep, all of the Latin languages originated from Vulgar Latin.

 

[Mirc]

(Italian, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Romanian, Catalan, etc)

Catalan = Spanish

Maybe I worded this wrong, but I meant that Castilian and Catalan are considered different languages... If they are together grouped in the languages spoken in Spain, that's another story.

 

[Portugal]

Maybe I worded this wrong, but I meant that Castilian and Catalan are considered different languages... If they are together grouped in the languages spoken in Spain, that's another story.

Nah, I realized my wrong-doing and changed the reply before it was too late - unfortunately you still managed to quote it.

 

[Plotinus]

I don't see how Latin started an evolution. It was part of an ongoing evolution in languages that had already been happening for a long time and still is.

But I must point out that while it may be true that some vast percentage of English words come from Latin, most of those are pretty specialist and not used very often. As a rule, where a Germanic word has a Latin or French-derived synonym, the Germanic one is the one that's used in everyday speech. Also, of course, English isn't really much like Latin in terms of grammar and so on, despite the attempts of various early modern linguists to make it as much like Latin as they could.

personally I would go so far as to name it the most important language up until today.

In Europe, certainly.

 

[Traitorfish]

Latin and English is very heavily influenced by it too (with over 40% of the vocabulary of Latin origin).

A misleading statistic (whatever it actually is)- most Latin-derived English words are technical terms that are used rarely outside of certain fields, but their existence creates a disproportionate appearance of Latin influence. Relatively few Latin-derived words are common in every conversation, and most of these are used relatively infrequently. (How often would you say "infrequently", for example?)

 

[warpus]

(How often would you say "infrequently", for example?)

Infrequently

 

[Mirc]

A misleading statistic (whatever it actually is)- most Latin-derived English words are technical terms that are used rarely outside of certain fields, but their existence creates a disproportionate appearance of Latin influence. Relatively few Latin-derived words are common in every conversation, and most of these are used relatively infrequently. (How often would you say "infrequently", for example?)

Not denying that English is a west-Germanic language. But don't deny the Latin influence.

 

[Traitorfish]

Not denying that English is a west-Germanic language. But don't deny the Latin influence.

Good point, but most of those words are, as I said, relatively uncommon, while words like "it", "what" and "say" occur very regularly. While a minority of English words are actually derived from Old English, the majority of words spoken are.

And "technical" is Greek.

 

[scherbchen]

Actually most one-syllabic words used in every-day conversations are of Germanic origin (north- and west-Germanic), hence even pre-dating Old English. Many of these are pretty easy to spot for a German since they are similar to the ones we still use (word/Wort, still/still, sword/Schwert, arm/Arm, hand/Hand, finger/Finger, ring/Ring, light/Licht, foot/Fuß, blood/Blut, nose/Nase, lips/Lippen, etc etc) though sometimes their meaning has changed a bit.

Many words of Latin origin found their way into the English language first through the heavy influence of French, Romance influence yes, Latin though only starting with the 16th century, roundabout.

 

[Naskra]

xdeletedxx

 

[Mirc]

Good point, but most of those words are, as I said, relatively uncommon, while words like "it", "what" and "say" occur very regularly. While a minority of English words are actually derived from Old English, the majority of words spoken are.

And "technical" is Greek.

You are right about technical, sorry.

I read on Wiki that from the most used English words, 83% are of Germanic origin, and I know that also, the (very simplified) grammar is clearly of Germanic origin.

Many words of Latin origin found their way into the English language first through the heavy influence of French, Romance influence yes, Latin though only starting with the 16th century, roundabout.

I will have to disagree with that. Only with the last part of the last phrase, though. There is a Latin substratum in English that existed since before successive the Germanic invasions. Words like "mountain", "valley", "river", "city", "giant" exist in the languages of the British Isles, in slightly different forms, since the ancient times, being actually the oldest words in English (while one might argue that Greek words are older, they either entered through Latin or were borrowed later).

Again, I'm NOT denying that English is a Germanic language. An English speaker is much more likely to understand "Der Man hat ein Haus und ein Hund" than "El hombre tiene una casa y un cane".

Spoiler :

"The man has a house and a dog"