Leaders: Part 2

[Babri]

Indian UB Vedi sounds very similar to Ethopian one. Why not change it to something like extra faith & culture on cattle or maybe happiness. (worshiping of cows by Hindus). Could be quite unique & powerful. It is not very difficult to find 2-3 cattle in a city.
Name of building could be changed accordingly if needed.

Edit : Or another option could be a UI built only on cattle, that provides extra culture & faith, plus slight healing & defence boosts for units nearby. Would perfectly suit with the Indian playstyle & would also bring some sort of military advantage for defence which India is lacking right now.

Citadel so early could be a bit OP if used correctly. It could completely annihilate AI early rushes, giving an unfair advantage to human, basically it takes away the thrill of defending early rushes. Plus early yields are quite powerful (when you have no improvements at all & everything is scarce).

 

[Dunkah]

So if you are playing with China, and if you happen to get rushed and if you happen to have not used your Great General yet you may have an advantage over the AI Civ that attacked you early?

Seems like it's going to be unlikely enough that it's not worth legislation. I have not seen an early rush by an AI that was successful yet. And even if you kill off the rush troops you still need to be able to take the AI cities? That shouldn't happen until much later on anyways, unless you invested in a bunch of early rush troops yourself in which case the whole point is moot.

I love the early GG. Keep it!

 

[sukritact]

Indian UB Vedi sounds very similar to Ethopian one. Why not change it to something like extra faith & culture on cattle or maybe happiness. (worshiping of cows by Hindus). Could be quite unique & powerful. It is not very difficult to find 2-3 cattle in a city.
Name of building could be changed accordingly if needed.

In all honesty, I'd prefer finding a way to represent India (well, the subcontinent), as the birthplace of ALL the Dharmic Religions...

Just an Idea:

India

UA: The Law of Dharma (Representing India as the birthplace of the Dharmic religions)
Receive faith when a city grows. amount of faith directly proportional to city size (and inversely proportional to amount of of cities?)

UB: Indus Sanitation
Replaces the Aqueduct, unlocks at Masonry (or Pottery?). Slightly cheaper than the Aqueduct. +1 Happiness.

UU: Mahout
Replaces the Chariot Archer, Slower, more expensive (?), +15% combat for adjacent units while in friendly territory (Elephants where often used by generals), +10% production for buildings and wonders while garrisoned in the city.

or

UB2: Mughal fort
Replaces the Castle, doesn't require walls, Increases range/rate of religious spread.

 

[Babri]

So if you are playing with China, and if you happen to get rushed and if you happen to have not used your Great General yet you may have an advantage over the AI Civ that attacked you early?

Yes the advantage is still there when u keep it but that is not as overwhelming. Considering a citadel, a warrior/spear becomes strong enough to easily defend against 3 melee attacks + a ranged attack or 2. And then next turn - 30HP for surrounding enemies & they are pretty much a goner by then. So my point was that it pretty much takes the thrill for the defence. Moreover u have powerful yields for citadel so even if u don't get rushed, you still have little to loose.
Militarily AI is only a threat early on when it has the advantage of its boosts (higher difficulties), later on that is somewhat diminished by player's efforts & AI has less chance of winning a war.

Seems like it's going to be unlikely enough that it's not worth legislation. I have not seen an early rush by an AI that was successful yet. And even if you kill off the rush troops you still need to be able to take the AI cities? That shouldn't happen until much later on anyways, unless you invested in a bunch of early rush troops yourself in which case the whole point is moot.

I disagree on the AI point. Early on AI can be a threat on higher difficulties. And u are not getting what I am trying to say. Read my post again.

For me citadel option is clearly much better which takes away other choices. IMHO a simple solution could be to give citadel yields later on with a tech so you are not at least in a win win situation when making citadel with first GG.

I love the early GG. Keep it!

Me too. It is just that u did not read my post properly. I am only asking for either removing citadel option for 1st general or take away high yields of citadel & bring them back with a tech like iron working or something.




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[mystikx21]

Minor notes on UU changes in beta
1) War Chariot is still 15, which seems absurdly high for an ancient age unit and is better than composite bowman for defence (and about as good as crossbows, but more mobile). I suspect this effect was from previous army versions where chariots were weaker and larger multipliers were needed to buff the unit.

2) Panzer now costs as much as modern armor. But isn't as good as modern armor. (could be a bug where strength was supposed to be adjusted but cost was instead?)

3) No change to Keshik/Camel Archer stats being affected by various knights changes.

On the GG/citadel debate, I could do with spreading out the citadel bonuses. I'm actually in favor of bringing back some modest policy bonuses from before on GIs/specialists as well to help out the later policy trees. So citadels could get a bonus from iron working, military science, and nationalism, say, but would start out with the defensive effects and very small yield bonuses +1/1.

 

[void_genesis]

I thought of an interesting possible unique ability for a high latitude civ such as denmark or sweden. Would we be able to make them cross the polar ice and pop out on the opposite side of the top of the world map?

 

[Toby.]

I love Denmark's Jelling Stones + Beserker combination. I've always wanting to play Denmark as a small cultural civ - sending raiders out to pillage foreign lands to limit competition. The jelling stones fit well.
In a practical sense, is the cultural boost particularly difficult to implement? I see in the latest Beta that the jelling stones are in as a replacement for the Heroic Epic, minus the per city hammer increase. The cultural boost is absent though. Any news on that feature?

Edit: oh and GEM is an incredible improvement over vanilla. Very impressive.
Edit2: After testing Denmark, I see that the cultural boost is there for the Jelling Stones. It just hasn't been added to the tooltip.

 

[mitsho]

Ha, just saw that they changed France's UA for BNW to - drumroll - City of Lights. Of course it has a different effect, it's still funny they've come up with the same name we did. (though of course Ville Lumière is widespread enough as a term)

 

[Hawawaa]

Hopefully they took alot more stuff from Communitas.

 

[void_genesis]

I am finding the dutch polder a bit underwhelming. Expanding the improvement to coastal tiles is one solutions. Another is to make polders produce a bonus luxury tulips resource on marsh only. Marshes are fairly rare, but you get the occasional city spot that has several of them. Similar effect to the tyrian dye on harbors.

 

[mystikx21]

Looks like they also went with the unrevised Glory of Rome idea (techs on conquest) and applied it to Assyria (for some reason). So that's something.