Learning Immortal - comments welcome

[BurN]

I'll shadow for a bit. I never played with Mansa but I like his traits so this should be fun. I think with a capital looking like that, I'll either go warring a lot or spam wonders.

O yea, I have to say the synergy of the start vs traits & UB .. don't make much sense imho. It would make sense with more grassland/river & marble instead of stone.

 

[silverbullet]

The wine city doesn't need a monument immediately, I'd tech:

ag->pottery->myst

Good luck

I agree, except I now discovered that I already had mysticism in my 2600BC save. Since I don't think it is a game breaking mistake, I will try to play it from there going ag->pottery->masonry

 

[silverbullet]

Round 2: 2600BC to 375BC (turn 100)

Spoiler :

I think I didn't play this extremely well but I got lucky enough and barely secured 6 cities.

I switched research to agriculture->pottery->masonry, built worker (aided by a chop) and another settler (2 chops), but I was still not fast enough to get to the pig-bronze spot. I decided that instead of settling on the wine, I should try to block more landb by settling on the hill SE of the oasis, stealing the pigs from Justinian.
In the mean time, a barbarian city spawned on the gold-floodplains-clam-lake.
After building the settler I built another skirmisher for my 3rd city, but when the time came to build another settler I got distracted. The stone was already hooked and Stonehenge was still available, in only 4 turns!!!


I lost stonehenge on the last turn, but at least I got some good cash for future deficit research.
The jungle to the north has been scouted (forgot to take a screen shot), and it has room for 3 good cities. 1 spot has been taken by another barbarian city. I have to build some army to capture those 2 cities before Justinian or Hammurabi.

1520 BC -I decide to found Kumbi Saleh 1W of the wine. Not a great location, I am not sure it was a good decision. I was thinking that the capital would be busy running specialists so it's better to have some overlap so the small city can help grow it's cottage, or use it's 1f4H stone when it's not in use.

Justinian founds Hinduism and spreads it to Hammurabi and us. Everyone is a happy family now. He is also very diligent to spread it to all my cities. Less work for my missionaries.

1640BC we have discovered writing. I research Iron working to settle the Jungle. I build another settler in Timbuktu and park it in the future spot of Gao, checking f5 every turn to see if Hammurabi sends a settler.

I start building the pyramids.
1280 BC - we have discovered Iron Working and find a source of iron 3 tiles away from the capital. I send a worker to connect it while the rest are chopping the pyramids.
I choose to research Aesthetics in hope of trading it for Alphabet.

925 BC - Pyramids are done. We switch to representation. Time to build some army to capture 2 barbarian cities. They each have 4 archers and my neighbours don't bring any suitable army so far. (Of course, they know that only the Mali people can properly make the barbarians more civilized)

825 BC - We discover Aesthetics.
I have to spend 4 turns into Alphabet before Justinian finally agrees to the trade.



Hammurabi doesn't have Alphabet. In fact he doesn't have much of anything. I could trade writing for sailing, but I prefer to wait and trade more costly techs.

675BC We discover meditation. I am not sure why, because I need Polytheism for literature. Maybe I thought monasteries will help the culture war with Justinian.
625BC - Justinian found Christianity and adopts theocracy.
575BC - I capture Shangian and found Gao.
I discover polytheism, priesthood (for cheap temples) and capture Schytian.


Justinian sneaks a city that steals the gold away from Schytian.



450BC Literature is discovered. We start working on the Great library. We have no marble, but I am hoping for a great engineer in 7 turns in Timbuktu (I have around 60% chance for GE, 40% GS since I am polluting the pyramids with 2 library scientists).

375BC researched sailing to get more food in the capital and start working on Maui soon in Scythian. I started building lighthouse and not GL, since I am still hoping for the GE. Even if we don't get GE, Justinian doesn't have Literature yet, and the other continent doesn't seem very fast on wonders and technology, if I should judge by the rate of religions founded and wonders built there.

That is where I stop playing. My general plan is to follow Snaaty's guide more or less to get liberalism and later rifling. GP farm the capital for scientists, get code of laws philosophy and paper (unlocking 2 stone wonders!!!). I might not need to bulb anything but education , since an academy representation scientist farm captial seems to be doing quite well in research. The rest of the cities will get cottages for now. Djenne will be a production city with only 2 FP cottages and the rest will be farms/mines.
It seems that I will not be benefitting from the commerce bonus on beaurocracy much, but the production bonus will help get many wonders. With spiritual I can constantly switch slavery OR to Caste Pacifism to work the capital as GP farm/wonder builder alternately.

 

[SnowlyWhite]

seems fine so far; not much to say

 

[silverbullet]

Round 3 (375BC to 640 AD)

Spoiler :

In this round we mainly focus on building our cities, teching and snatching some wonders. The general plan is to keep 6 cities until Rifling, build globe theatre, and kill Justinian with rifles.

Reserached:
Code of Laws->Civil Service->Metal Casting-> Currency->Drama->Philosophy->Paper (2 turns left)
great people: 1 GS (Academy), 1 GE (keep for Taj Mahal), 1 GS (keep for education bulb).

Traded:
Monarchy (from Justinian for Code of laws)
Mathematics and Monotheism ( from Hammurabi for Aesthetics+Alphabet)
Calendar (from Justinian or Metal Casting)
Construction (from Hammurabi for Calendar and some gold)

Details:

275BC
We get our first great person - Carl Friedriech Gauss is born in Timbuktu. We wanted a great engineer to build the great library for us, not a German statistician. Never mind, the Gauss Academy is created in Timbuktu.


225 BC - finally Hammurabi is willing to do some useful trades. We trade Aesthetics and Alphabet for Mathematics and Monotheism. Gauss must be delighted that we finally know maths.

Question to those who might know:
This is a really unfair deal. I don't understand why Hammurabi wouldn't settle for less. Normally Aesthetics or Alphabet alone are enough for mathematics, is this related to AI personalities or some other conditions? I understand that sometimes they don't value a tech because they have already spent beakers into it, but I don't believe Hamu spent partial beaker towards BOTH alpha and Aesthetics. All he was willing to give me for 1 tech was Monotheism.

On that same year we discover code of laws.
We switch to organized religion, but not to caste system yet. Since timbuktu still works mostly mines for the great library, it cannot run many specialists yet, and we need to whip culture buildings in the newly conquered barbarian cities.
We are in culture war from both the south and the north.
Scythian, our newly captured barbarian city is competing on culture with the Byzantine garbage city that stole our gold. At this point it has only christianity, so I build a christian temple and monastery. I need to get hinduism there ASAP to get more culture fast.

1AD - Justinian has completed the Parthenon. This guy has Marble. It's a good thing he doesn't have literature.

50AD - The great library is completed in Timbuktu.
I trade code of laws to Justinian for Monarchy, after investing 1 turn of research in it. Now we can work the wine to become happier.
I build a Hindu monastery in timbuktu to futher increase the research there. At this point I am pretty sure Justinian will build the AP, and I am planning on build University of Sankore with stone, so all cities should have hindu monasteries and temples (which I need for my culture war anyway).

Now that I am writing the summary I am thinking it may have been better to just go to a real early war instead of a culture war.

We try to build the hanging gardens in Djenne, but we lose it after 2 turns and get 51 gold.

We finally win a culture war over a gold mine tile with Justinian, so I try to build Shwegadon Paya to help the cultural war in Djenne. We lose it to Justinian.
Now that I write it and think about it I think it was pretty stupid. He had had Aesthetics AND gold for a long time, so instead of wasting hammers on wonders, I could have spent them on preparing for war. He couldn't have had a huge army with all these wonders he was building. At least we get 215 gold, and the conversion of 1 hammer for 2 gold isn't that bad.

175 AD - We discover civil service. We switch to bureaucracy.
A random event brings us closer together with the Babylonians - the generous people of Nippur have shared their food with us for +3 diplomacy, and Hammurabi is now friendly. Great, more tech trading options.

I decided to tech metal casting as none of our neighbours has it and I want to trade it for currency and calendar. Also it provide the unique building.

200 AD I start building National epic in Timbuktu in preparation to bulb my way quickly to liberalism. In retrospect this may have been a waste of 10 turns and a national wonder slot. The capital is perfect for ironworks. I could have just switched to caste system, get a quick GS, bulb philosophy, and switch to pacifism. I think I am not yet too good at utilizing spiritual properly.

275AD I trade Metal casting for Calendar with Justinian. I try to trade it for currency to Hammurabi, but he wouldn't settle for anything less than civil service for currency. He has already been MC himself as I discover 2 turns later. I decide to self research currency and keep civil service for a better trade, as neither of my neighbours has it yet. I trade Calendar to Hammurabi for construction.
Next research is Drama. I chose drama before philosophy for 3 reasons.
1) philosophy after drama would be cheaper (2nd prerequisite discount).
2)Justinian has drama already and I need to get theatres up fast for my culture war.
3) I want to start the globe in Gao asap, so I will whip/build theatres in all 6 of my cities once Drama is done (2 turns).

400 AD - National Epic is done and Imhotep (great engineer) is born in Timbuktu. You are too late!!! we have already built the great library. hmm... maybe you can do something else... how about Taj Mahal?

Justinian builds the apostolic palace as expected, but since Hammurabi loves us more than Justinian, we get elected!!! Apparently we are civ number 2 in terms of population on this continent. Hammurabi is stuck on a very small piece of land. Well, no need to worry about "stop the war" resolutions.
I stay in organized religion and slavery for now, as I am building a lot of infrastructure in all cities - theatres, globe theatre, moai statue, markets, mints and hindu temples and monasteries.

580 AD Socrates (Great Scientist) born in Timbuktu. We keep him to bulb education after paper.

Djenne manages to build Angkor Wat which will help a little in the culture war.

640AD
Paper will be ready in 2 turns and University of Sankore should be very quick with stone.

I will take some screenshots later and add them to this post.

 

[SnowlyWhite]

probably you should've just put 1 turn in maths.; tbh, I don't understand either, since both are about 40% more then maths

that gold seems dubious long term unless you manage to flip the city as a whole

question - why globe in gao? I don't know the maths on normal, but with 5 farms, as apparently that's best you can get(actually 4, as it seems to be a sugar there) will you get from 5 to 6 in 1 turn?

taoism was founded?

just loaded the save; ugh... sistine by hammu... it'll be quite a headache in gao...

 

[Rusten]

You seem to be doing ok, but 1 comment;

You constructed the Pyramids and still went for a total CE? I only see 2 farms!
That's quite a waste imo, several of your cities could run a lot of specialists instead of cottages, especially Scythian. Financial doesn't mean you have to go all out and cottage everything. If you manage and bother to construct the Pyramids it's far better to at least start out with more of a specialist approach, even if you're one of those pesky CE lovers. Running representation from scratch and not having a single self-run specialist just makes me want to poke my eyes out, really! Maybe you were running some in between these saves, but there are just too many cottages, you should appreciate farms more. Cottages are good, especially with Mansa Musa, but it's a little over the top. Add in the Pyramids and you're wasting the opportunity to have researched liberalism ~300 years ago.

Also, Kumbi Saleh is working forests in both saves when it could be borrowing the stones from the capital. It's better to let the capital work a mine (or maybe even a specialist *gasp*) and lend it to the other city for a while.

 

[obsolete]

Hmm, I am trying not to give you any of my input, as my plays are a bit unorthodox to the norm. I already am queezy about that scientist you want to burn on education, followed by an engineer you want to waste on an artist polluting & cheap & crappy wonder like the Taj.

However, different strokes for different folks.

I started a new game for myself today, but if I get time later on I'll maybe take your initial file and see how it plays out. Though hopefully you can master immortal pretty soon, and then the real deity fun starts BTW, I've seen the oracle built in 3000 BC before, and that's no joke. Luckily, that doesn't always go down so quick.

 

[silverbullet]

Thank you all for the feedback.

@Snowlywhite: Gao is not a great globe city. it will have 1 sugar and 4 farms, meaning 8 food surplus. Growing 5->6 requires 30 food. With a completely half empty granary it takes 2 turns. Assuming the city will be around size 9 when I switch to nationalism, I could probably draft 1/turn for about 10 turns and then 3 out of 4 turns. Scythian and Djenne are other options, but I don't to ruin great commerce/production cities to size 5 for a completely optimized drafting.

@Rusten: thanks for the feedback
I am not one of those "pesky" CE lovers, I just don't know how to run SE properly (yet).
I also think I might have gotten too distracted with GL and NE in the captital when I could have just switched to caste and run specialist, bulb philosophy and run pacifism. Without marble I wasted too much turns working mines in the capital instead of specialists.

The reason I thought it was good to cottage flood plains is:
2 cottage floodplains = 6 commerce + support for 1 specialist (12 commerce total). After 10 turns 8 comerce + 1 specialist (14 commerce)
2 farm floodplains = 2 commerce + 2 specialists (14 commerce)
That is of course assuming that the capital produces all the great people, so GP points in Scythian don't matter.
It seems quite close, and since Scythian is full of floodplains, it will quickly run into health issues, so I thought that cottages will require a smaller city.
Of course, maybe long term its wrong, because I plan on drafting and whipping infrastructure, which makes farms better. Also, when going to war I will have to increase culture slider for drafting.... what was I thinking - farms are better at least until I get more land. Perhaps after democracy I could switch back - mansa get 3 commerce per flood plains right from the start, so its not a huge loss during peace time.

After I finish my game I will try to go back to my 375BC and try get liberalism by 300~400AD using specialists, just to test this approach.
Do you think the GL/NE was a waste of time?

@Obsolete: please do give feedback. I don't care if a play is unorthodox as long as it works. Taj may not be as important as I think since I am already spiritual. Do you think I should have settle all my GP in Timbuktu? I might try that again back from the 375BC save later.
I don't think I will master immortal so soon. I think I got really really lucky in this game. If someone can take one my saves and show me "how you really do it" I am sure it will be an eye opening experience.

 

[SnowlyWhite]

tbh, I'd also keep the ge(even as far as mining comes online); or sol, since the continent is large enough

 

[Rusten]

Do you think the GL/NE was a waste of time?

GL is one of the top wonders no doubt, but that doesn't mean it's always worth the de-tour. I rarely make it without marble unless I have a spare GE.

The NE depends. If you're making most of your GPP in 1 city then it's great. However, if you're playing philosophical and make every city a "GP farm" (hate that term) like I usually do it's not necessary at all. It's about balancing, play to your traits and situation (obviously you're neither of the two). In the succession game I noticed you were following I skipped aesthetics completely and aimed at other techs. If you already made the de-tour to aesthetics and got marble I'd go for it, but there's so much else to build and whipping wonders suck. I rarely make wonders without the resource and I think it was a waste of time in this particular game.

Your maths about the cottages vs specialists in Scythian is probably correct, but in my experience mathematicians are the ones who never get to the highest levels, because they are stuck looking at getting the absolute most of every tile over a long period of time. The extra food doesn't have to go to specialists either, it could go to production (slavery) so there's more to it than what you put down. Going for the immediate gain is much better usually. You can cottage it post-civil service or when you land democracy if you feel like it, but early on farms (whipping) and GPP is better (especially with the Pyramids). Being spiritual is another plus for farms, it's much easier to switch between slavery and caste system then.

 

[silverbullet]

Your maths about the cottages vs specialists in Scythian is probably correct, but in my experience mathematicians are the ones who never get to the highest levels

You are right. When I wrote my reply to your post I was going to try to convince you why cottage is better, but when I started writing down the arguments, I just got myself convinced that farms would have been better - whipping, drafting, culture slider freedom during the war.

... what was I thinking - farms are better at least until I get more land.

I can switch all riversides to cottages with a bigger land and democracy (and also all the developed cities conquered from Justinian).

Anyway, I think I will continue the game now in spite of my mistakes. I might do some retries later to compare different approaches, Thanks a lot for the feedback.

Question to Rusten & Obsolete: What would you do in my current situation? Would you go with settling both the GS and GE, or with education bulb and Taj Mahal?
Obsolete, I know you advocates settling, and it makes a lot of sense with early representation but I wonder if it is useful when not following your SSE path completely from the start, missing a lot of wonders already, and going with a very hybrid game, where I tried to do so many things in different direction and planning to go for riflemen drafting when Justinian is still at longbows. Golden age may give me the tech push I need for early rifling, and education bulb will provide me fast liberalism. On the other hand I have stone, so oxford with be quick--> another point in favour of settling GS.

 

[SnowlyWhite]

the statement about mathematicians actually hits the nail right on the spot

 

[oyzar]

Building the taj without having the mausoleum already feels a bit like a waste(as the mausoleum is so cheap in comparison...).

 

[Rusten]

I never settle any specialists except prophets unless I get them really early from wonders (GM, GE, GSpy). The other exception would be a cottaged capital with bureaucracy, then I'd go for an academy.

If someone can take one my saves and show me "how you really do it" I am sure it will be an eye opening experience.

Which save? I did a quick shadow game from the beginning, attaching a save below. I didn't get liberalism until 540 AD, but I blame my neighbours for that. I teched too fast for them to offer me a single trade. All I got was monarchy and IW for alphabet.

GNP (GOLD):

Spoiler :

If you want earlier saves I have that as well.

Edit: I even had to self-research techs like calendar and metal casting after education T_t

 

[obsolete]

Question to Rusten & Obsolete: What would you do in my current situation? Would you go with settling both the GS and GE, or with education bulb and Taj Mahal?
Obsolete, I know you advocates settling, and it makes a lot of sense with early representation but I wonder if it is useful when not following your SSE path completely from the start, missing a lot of wonders already, and going with a very hybrid game, where I tried to do so many things in different direction and planning to go for riflemen drafting when Justinian is still at longbows. Golden age may give me the tech push I need for early rifling, and education bulb will provide me fast liberalism. On the other hand I have stone, so oxford with be quick--> another point in favour of settling GS.

Stone should rarely be your decision if you want the Oxford or not. As for the GE... if I felt I HAD to use him to rushbuild something, I'd much rather use him on something better, such as the SoL. He'd give 500 hammers + city bonus IIRC. But that was from vanilla, there may have been changes since then.

The only time I'd feel to lightbulb a scientist on education would be if I really felt I was falling behind on the liberalism race. And that almost never happens for me

I suppose, if you REALLY are sure you can hit your rifles & drafting fast, and crush your opponent in a deep thrust at this stage, then perhaps I can't fault you. Though as for myself, I like to wait until the very late stages of the game, and then just unleash hell all over.

After I am done writing up my last game, I'll see about giving your's a shot.

 

[silverbullet]

I finished the game - my first immortal win!!!
I think this game went relatively lucky for me, I will need to play quite a few more games to master this level.
Thanks a lot for everyone's feedback on this game. I will keep my report in case someone is playing a shadow game.

@Rusten: thanks for the shadow game. You definitely demonstrated a superior opening to mine. I didn't even dare to start REXing on immortal without archers, I guess everything is situational and one shouldn't play automatically.

Round 4 (640AD to 1060AD)

Spoiler :

The liberalism race.

Tech Researched: Paper->Education(partly bulbed)->Liberalism->Nationalism (free from lib)->Printing Press (partly bulbed)->Guilds->Banking->Economics(3 turns left)

Techs Traded ( I don't remember what exactly, but mainly to Hammurabi who is not dangerous even with a tech lead with his smallish empire):
Machinery, feudalism, music, horseback riding, theology, compass, engineering.

Wonders built: Angkor Wat (Djenne), Uni of Sankore (Timbuktu) Taj Mahal (with GE, in Djenne)

Globe theatre build in Gao.

Great people born: 1GE (keeping for Statue of liberty or maybe mining inc), 1 GS (used for printing press bulb)

I plan to compelte universities in all cities for oxford in the capital.

As soon as mercanalism is avaialble we switch to it, as trade routs are quite poor now in our continents, and will get worse during the war.
We switch to theocracy and planning to start build CR2 macemen and some trebuchets. The free GM from economics will fund mass upgrades.

Research plan: economics(3 turns)->replaceable parts->gunpowder->rifling


Our empire

The land that justly belongs to our people and is now occupied by our so called friends the Byzantines:

The land that will also belong to us one day but its people currently call themselves Babylonians:

As you can see we are on a very small continent and we were lucky to squeeze 6 cities in what seems to be the best part of the continent and end up with a comfortable tech lead.

The tech situation:

Round 5 (1060AD to 1310 AD)

Spoiler :

Research: economics->replaceable parts-> gunpowder->rifling->chemistry->steel (started, 7 turns).
Got from Hammurabi: optic and constitution (for replaceable parts and something else, I forgot)
I wanted constitution for better espionage,as I will rely mostly on spies for taking down Justinian's defences.

Great people born: GM (from economics), GS, GA, GP
The GM will be used to fund army upgrade. The GS builds an academy in Scythian.
We are still keeping a GE for SoL or mining Inc. the GA+GP will be used for golden ages later.
During this round we meet the Indians (Asoka) who come from the other continent. I could trade astronomy with them but I don't want to get worst enemy penalties with other civs there, so I wait.

Oxford was build in Timbuktu.

Sent the great merchant to Babylon for 1300 gold. Upgraded CR2 macemen to riflemen.
We built Jails in all cities. I am planning to increase espionage slider for a few turns before and during the war. Justinian currently has a lot more espionage points than us, but is will change quickly.
Drafted in all cities up to happy cap or close to it, while still building more CR2 macemen and upgrading.
Gao drafted every turn it could.

Our current army: 24 Riflmen (about half are CR2), 5 trebuchets, 10 spies.
Justinian has mostly longbowmen and cataphracts.
Now I am the leader of the apostolic palace, by divine right, it seems only fitting that I should own the budhist holy city!!

Attack!!

Round 6 (1310 AD to 1500 AD)

Spoiler :

The war went pretty well. At 1490 the Byzantine people have finally recognized the glory of the Mali nation and came to live under our protection. Now that they understand the proper power structure we can be friends again.
At the begining of the war I mainly relied on trebuchets+riflemen+spies. After Steel was available (1390) I went to upgrade and produce cannons.

Research is slow that round, since commerce went mostly to cash upgrades, espionage and culture.
Still, we have quite a few specialists in our oxford capital so we managed to do some progress.
Researched: Steel-> Democracy -> Steam Power (partial)
Traded: Astronomy (to the greeks, for education, nationalism), Scientific Method (from Justinian, as part of capitulation).

We meet the Chinese the Greeks and the Germans this round and they seem to be less advanced than Asoka, which makes us the tech leader.
The AI in this game seems to be teching slower than on many Emperor games I played. I manage to trade for some map and now see the whole world:

At 1440 we switch to free market, now that many other nations are in free market and we have astronomy.
At 1490, after the war we switch to free speach and turn the culture slider off.

We are in a very strong position now, for several reason.

First, Hammurabi wasn't fast enough to get rifling. He is probably a few turn away from it, but doesn't have a lot of cash. His empire is pretty small and has some nice wonders.
I don't need to build any new troops to attack him, Just let them travel back north for 6~7 turns. I have 38 riflemen, 7 cannons, 3 trebuchets and 8 spies.

Second, we are the first to democracy and have a GE for 820 hammers. I will wait with the GE since I want to found mining Inc, so I will try SoL without the GE.
I will have to watch Asoka.

Finally, none of the other civs are in theocracy. I start building missionaries and will send them to all nations for religios victory.

Round 7 (1500 AD to 1600 AD)

Spoiler :

I move my SoD north to Hammurabbi and start spending espionage on him. 10% slider for a few turns is enough to get full city visibilty.
He discovers Military sciene 1 turn before I attack. That makes it even easier. I will lose a few rifles when he attacks with grenadiers, but I will mostly win on attack.
When I attack he still has mostly longbowman and not a lot of cash for upgrades.
The war was very quick.
Hammurabi bribed Frederick to declare war on me, but so far he didn't send any ships. It's a good thing I had already spread hinduism to his empire before he declared.
In 10 turns Hammurabbi is driven away from the continent and capitulates. He is left with his tiny islands.
During the game I got so many positive modifiers with Hammurabi (2 random events), that he was pleased after I declared war!!! After capitulating he went back to friendly. Now he is at war with Frederick too.

I decided to keep the GE for mining inc and take the risk of losing SoL, now that coal is visible I can count 11 mining resources, and +11 production per city is better than a free specialist. It turns out that I was quick enough to build it with no rushing. Sol built in Timbuktu.

I made no tech trades that round.
Banks are being built around the empire to enable Wall Street in Constantinopole the holy city which will found mining Inc.
If my religious victory plans work it wouldn't matter, but just in case someone switch to theocracy, I need to maintain my lead.
At this point the only civ without hinduism is the greek civilization.

Round 8 - Final (1600 AD to 1770 AD)

Spoiler :

I have to be honest. I had to reload this round because I forgot an important thing which ruined my religious victory.

It turns out that if you have enough votes to win by yourself, the option doesn't even come up. The problem is that these votes just come once in a while with no announcement, so I lost track of time until suddenly I realized something was wrong, because I got 3 elections for the AP leader and no decision to perform.
I was still in a comfortable lead at that point and could have gone for either domination or space, but I was lazy and also wanted to try religious victory, which I have never tried before.

Germans make peace with us after 2 turns. We spread Hinduism to the greeks.
We found mining inc in Constaninopole.
I gift some cities back to Justinian and to Hammurabi. This is another annoying part. I don't know exactly how much to give back and how the population count work until the vote comes.
Now it turns out that Hammurabi and us are not enough to win. (Justinian is the rival).
I research biology and spam farms. Research medicine for health cap.

We got VERY close

and finally did it. Verrrrrry close.

Considering I ruined juicy towns and was at risk of someone discovering Mass Media, I don't think the risk was worth it.
I wish there was a way to monitor the number of votes each civ has before the votes actuall happen. I would have probably made it if I had gifted 1 less city to Justinian.

 

[Rusten]

Congrats, well done!

@Rusten: thanks for the shadow game. You definitely demonstrated a superior opening to mine. I didn't even dare to start REXing on immortal without archers, I guess everything is situational and one shouldn't play automatically.

Definitely. One shouldn't get too fond of "rules" as everything in civ 4 is situational. Some strong players advocate growing to size 5 before settling the next city but I usually settle sooner if an opportunity arrises.

This game I made the settler at size 2 because:

- Justinian was really close so less barbs.
- Justinian is imperialistic so if I want many cities I better speed up.
- growing to size 3 wouldn't add much to production. I was already working the 6 food corn and the 5 food fish which was killer production and enabled that speedy settler. The production speed and having copper nearby meant that archery would never be necessary and getting the copper hooked up in time would be easy.

 

[Loki0wn]

Hey, Silverbullet, I was curious if you could share to me the mods that you are using. Most of them look like they extremely help stream line the experience.

 

[silverbullet]

It's the BUG mod (BTS unaltered game play).
http://civ4bug.sourceforge.net/