Leoreth Plays Russia

[Leoreth]

That approach automatically prevents any progress until a new civ is added. If we defer a decision until that is known, it inherently depends on investing resources into including a new civ, which is a waste until the new civ can actually be added.

Goals of a Kievan civ will always exist in a different context than partial goals of a larger overall Russian civs, and goals can only be evaluated in combination. It's not like we can think of good Kievan goals and then just port one of them to current Russia. A goal that may work well in combination with two other Kievan goals does not automatically make a good addition to the Russian civ.

That said, I think Orthodoxy is a good direction to go in. That is an important feature of both the Kievan polities and especially Muscovy, which early on claimed to be the successor to the Roman Empire and considered the Metropolitan of Moscow to be the highest ranking representative of Orthodox Christianity. Also, in one of my games (not the one I ultimately won with) Catholicism actually spread to my cities before Orthodoxy did, and I genuinely debated the reasons why I shouldn't just embrace it. It would have definitely made dealing with the rest of Europe a lot easier. So having a goal that makes you stick to Orthodoxy would be good.

 

[Crimean Lord]

In order to review Russian UHV, it could be useful to forsee the next split in Kievan Rus/Novgorod Republic and Muscovite Rus. The former could have more specific Medieval UHV, such as:
- dealing with a threat of Cumans barbarians in the South (maybe also Khazars);
- establishing trade routes between Scandinavia and Byzantine Empire;
- controlling X fur resources;
- create access to Baltic, Black and Barents Sea;
- converting to Orthodox religion despite Catholic Germans, Poles and Vikings at its borders;
- surviving to Mongols invasion.
On the other hand, Muscovite Rus could keep current UHV working for them along less than five centuries instead of more than a millennium.

Agree!
Technically only in the end on 15 century Moscow's State appeared as independent power
+ 50% of suggestions we already have in mod-mod, so it will be much easier to incorporate it to main branch

 

[1SDANi]

Agree!
Technically only in the end on 15 century Moscow's State appeared as independent power
+ 50% of suggestions we already have in mod-mod, so it will be much easier to incorporate it to main branch

Leoreth doesn't copy/paste code from mod-mods. Especially not poorly tested ones.

 

[Crimean Lord]

Leoreth doesn't copy/paste code from mod-mods. Especially not poorly tested ones.

OK! Thanks for that answer: currently I understand that it's really hard "unite" some сontent from different versions

 

[Zaddy]

Here's an idea I thought about, as a replacement for the stale space race goal:

Gatherer of the Rus Lands: Control 90% of European Russia, have all cities in European Russia converted to Orthodoxy and construct The Kremlin in Moscow by 1500.

European Russia here would generally mean all of the Russian core + all other tiles west of the Urals. This *might* be too easy now, but you could have independent cities (or new civs, though obviously that's not a high priority right now) such as Novgorod and Kiev spawn, as well as independent or even Turkic cities in the Pontic steppe, requiring the player to balance research, conquest, religion and wonder building all at once. An independent Kazan already spawns, although it doesn't have much in the way of an army capable of threatening you.

These goals are based on the accomplishments of (as I understand it) a celebrated Russian ruler, Ivan III, who could be referred to as the "father of the nation", to borrow a somewhat antiquated term. Much of the Kremlin as we know it today was completed during his reign and he greatly expanded the territory of Muscovy (although he did not control the entirety of European Russia, I think it's a nice ambition goal that a player can accomplish.

 

[Temüjin VIII]

Here's an idea I thought about, as a replacement for the stale space race goal:

Gatherer of the Rus Lands: Control 90% of European Russia, have all cities in European Russia converted to Orthodoxy and construct The Kremlin in Moscow by 1500.

European Russia here would generally mean all of the Russian core + all other tiles west of the Urals. This *might* be too easy now, but you could have independent cities (or new civs, though obviously that's not a high priority right now) such as Novgorod and Kiev spawn, as well as independent or even Turkic cities in the Pontic steppe, requiring the player to balance research, conquest, religion and wonder building all at once. An independent Kazan already spawns, although it doesn't have much in the way of an army capable of threatening you.

These goals are based on the accomplishments of (as I understand it) a celebrated Russian ruler, Ivan III, who could be referred to as the "father of the nation", to borrow a somewhat antiquated term. Much of the Kremlin as we know it today was completed during his reign and he greatly expanded the territory of Muscovy (although he did not control the entirety of European Russia, I think it's a nice ambition goal that a player can accomplish.

I think we can expand the goal to either control all of European Russia by 1550 (since it should include Kazan', and the Tsardom conquered Kazan' in 1552), or extend it to 1600 and include the area of the Khanate of Sibir (Tyumen', Tobol'sk).

 

[Zaddy]

I think we can expand the goal to either control all of European Russia by 1550 (since it should include Kazan', and the Tsardom conquered Kazan' in 1552), or extend it to 1600 and include the area of the Khanate of Sibir (Tyumen', Tobol'sk).

Sure, but then that would require controlling a bunch of northern tundra that nobody would ever want to settle. My idea with the 90% requirement was to not force the player the settle a bunch of crappy tundra cities on the North Sea.

 

[PtzRK]

It always brings a smile to Europeans from the forum to divide Russia. True, no one divides Germany, Spain, England, in France the Burgundians did not identify themselves with the French at all. Well, so on and so forth, and there are many such examples. Such an era.
Well enough criticism.
About the gameplay. I did UHV like this. At first, I established contacts with Uzbeks and China, through the exchange of technologies I caught up with the lag (You can even ask Byzantium for technology with good relations at the beginning of the game!Free!!!) And then I built an academy and houses. Collected an army of archers on horseback, prepared for the Mongol invasion (stable + barracks give pumping against light cavalry). You can even lose one or two cities, the main thing is that Moscow is a whole, the main producer of science. You can win everything back or wait for the collapse of the Mongols. The resettlement of Siberia gives a lot of houses with "individualism". As a result, Russia comes out far ahead in science, and no one can compete (One or two more technologies to steal). Therefore, it would be wise to add (or not worth) food resources to Siberia, say cows, but most tiles throughout Siberia should be made 1 meal at a time to eliminate the huge benefits from houses.

P.S. Although I had an idea for a long time, increase all starting health and resources by three times. But add one or two pollution to the houses. If, in this version of the game, add pollution at least one from the house, it will greatly disrupt the economy of all civilizations.
Oh yes. I like the idea of controlling 5 or 6 seas !!

 

[1SDANi]

It always brings a smile to Europeans from the forum to divide Russia. True, no one divides Germany, Spain, England, in France the Burgundians did not identify themselves with the French at all. Well, so on and so forth, and there are many such examples. Such an era.

IMO, splitting a nation is not just a matter of distinct national allegiance, but also of what kind of gameplay it produces. Does it create new interesting interactions? Would the nation have a strong enough core territory to create interesting campaigns? How long did the nation exist for? Are there successor states that it could represent? On and on.

 

[PtzRK]

IMO, splitting a nation is not just a matter of distinct national allegiance, but also of what kind of gameplay it produces. Does it create new interesting interactions? Would the nation have a strong enough core territory to create interesting campaigns? How long did the nation exist for? Are there successor states that it could represent? On and on.

I understand what you are driving at, and the logic is clear to me, it's all about the vast territory. But it seems to me that there is a lot of free space on the globe to which more attention should be paid, Europe is already saturated with players. Take South America, Australia, and Africa for a start, there is something to work on!
P.S. Even the addition of such a significant nation as the Hungarians will already lead to a strong density in Europe

 

[Leoreth]

It always brings a smile to Europeans from the forum to divide Russia. True, no one divides Germany, Spain, England, in France the Burgundians did not identify themselves with the French at all. Well, so on and so forth, and there are many such examples. Such an era.

The literal first thing I did in this mod as soon as I knew how was split Germany but go off I guess

 

[Crimean Lord]

Sure, but then that would require controlling a bunch of northern tundra that nobody would ever want to settle. My idea with the 90% requirement was to not force the player the settle a bunch of crappy tundra cities on the North Sea.

They are really poor in the current map
But in the new one - situation is much better

 

[Crimean Lord]

It always brings a smile to Europeans from the forum to divide Russia. True, no one divides Germany, Spain, England, in France the Burgundians did not identify themselves with the French at all. Well, so on and so forth, and there are many such examples. Such an era.
Well enough criticism.
About the gameplay. I did UHV like this. At first, I established contacts with Uzbeks and China, through the exchange of technologies I caught up with the lag (You can even ask Byzantium for technology with good relations at the beginning of the game!Free!!!) And then I built an academy and houses. Collected an army of archers on horseback, prepared for the Mongol invasion (stable + barracks give pumping against light cavalry). You can even lose one or two cities, the main thing is that Moscow is a whole, the main producer of science. You can win everything back or wait for the collapse of the Mongols. The resettlement of Siberia gives a lot of houses with "individualism". As a result, Russia comes out far ahead in science, and no one can compete (One or two more technologies to steal). Therefore, it would be wise to add (or not worth) food resources to Siberia, say cows, but most tiles throughout Siberia should be made 1 meal at a time to eliminate the huge benefits from houses.

P.S. Although I had an idea for a long time, increase all starting health and resources by three times. But add one or two pollution to the houses. If, in this version of the game, add pollution at least one from the house, it will greatly disrupt the economy of all civilizations.
Oh yes. I like the idea of controlling 5 or 6 seas !!

I don's think that Kievan Rus and Medieval Burgunida are thу same cases
Even if we will ignore historical/cultural/political details there will be particular gameplay' reason
United Moscow's State appeared much later than current 860 (I think 1400 is the most earlier era)
So - we need to continue "unite" current Russia with ancient Kievan Rus (tradition from vanilla-version) or "cut" into two different civs

P.S. By the way: except Germans we already have Persians as two Civs

 

[PtzRK]

The literal first thing I did in this mod as soon as I knew how was split Germany but go off I guess

The emergence of the Holy Roman Empire fits very well, since this state can identify itself, and Hungary and Austria and the Czech, in general with the Balkans!
P.S. Oh yes. Taking advantage of the situation, I want to express my deep gratitude for the RFC modernization. And I wish you good luck in the further development of the project!

 

[PtzRK]

I don's think that Kievan Rus and Medieval Burgunida are thу same cases
Even if we will ignore historical/cultural/political details there will be particular gameplay' reason
United Moscow's State appeared much later than current 860 (I think 1400 is the most earlier era)
So - we need to continue "unite" current Russia with ancient Kievan Rus (tradition from vanilla-version) or "cut" into two different civs

P.S. By the way: except Germans we already have Persians as two Civs

1) Burgundy in France, this is, for example, the Yaroslavl principality as part of Kievan Rus.
2) The emergence of the Moscow state is considered by many to be the 15th century. This is not entirely true. The 15th century is the emergence of a centralized state headed by Moscow! And by the way, the same unification is taking place in Western Europe. Centralization is taking place in France, Spain, England.
3) The appearance of Prussia cannot be compared to Persia, as Austria remains in the game. Then it could be used as an example. Aztecs-Mexico, Incas-Peru, Maya-Colombia.

P.S. And the question is what. Playing for Kievan Rus, will the Moscow principality appear on its territory? Or if it is not under the control of the player?

 

[1SDANi]

1) Burgundy in France, this is, for example, the Yaroslavl principality as part of Kievan Rus.
2) The emergence of the Moscow state is considered by many to be the 15th century. This is not entirely true. The 15th century is the emergence of a centralized state headed by Moscow! And by the way, the same unification is taking place in Western Europe. Centralization is taking place in France, Spain, England.
3) The appearance of Prussia cannot be compared to Persia, as Austria remains in the game. Then it could be used as an example. Aztecs-Mexico, Incas-Peru, Maya-Colombia.

P.S. And the question is what. Playing for Kievan Rus, will the Moscow principality appear on its territory? Or if it is not under the control of the player?

The Kievan Rus is more comparable to Ukraine than the Yaroslavl Principality

The Novgorod Republic existed at the same time as the Grand Duchy of Muscovy, so yes they are indeed comparable to Austria and Prussia.

Aztecs-Mexico, Incas-Peru, and Maya-Colombia are all separate civs and are planned to be further separated.

 

[Temüjin VIII]

Sure, but then that would require controlling a bunch of northern tundra that nobody would ever want to settle. My idea with the 90% requirement was to not force the player the settle a bunch of crappy tundra cities on the North Sea.

Ah, I did not mean to exactly control all the tiles. We can simply go with the usual DoC definition of "control" for this: control all cities in the given region. This should mean that there should be a bunch of independent and Mongol cities in the region along the way, though.

P.S. And the question is what. Playing for Kievan Rus, will the Moscow principality appear on its territory? Or if it is not under the control of the player?

If Kievan Rus' settles the exact Moscow tile, maybe yes? Just having that city flip to the Muscovites.

 

[rmontaruli]

If Kievan Rus' settles the exact Moscow tile, maybe yes? Just having that city flip to the Muscovites.

When i play as Moors, i settle Madrid, that flips to Spain. The gear is working yet.

 

[Genghis Khaiser]

By doing good relations, civic influence and using like five or six Great Statesmen, my five communist allies were Iran, Mughals/Pakistan, the Netherlands and my vassals Germany and Austria.

My recommendation on civics: If you were running Democracy, once you meet that UHV requirement switch to State Party ASAP. Your empire's pocket will thank you for it.

 

[Dracosolon]

I'm aiming for the Russian UHV and wondering: with the nerfed Republic food bonus, what's the strategy for getting the most out of Central Planning?