LESSON 1 : The early rush

[Tabarnak]

Hi everyone. Instead of making a giga thread about how to play and survive in mp, i decided to concentrate on many aspects separately.
Let's begin by : The early rush

For the first lesson, we gonna learn about how doing a successful early rush. The essence of a ''rush'' is speed. We will try to find here what is the best approach to throw an annoying army to our closest neighbor the fastest as possible.

We can try different approaches through many games, trying to find interesting strategies.

The rules are simple. In each games played, you are not allowed to contact the AI and trade with. Period.

For this first lesson, i have set a fractal, prince, 4 cs, barbs enabled on a tiny map. We play as England. Rome settled south of us and we decided to wipe him out of the map. He's a bit far so we need to do this fast enough before he will settle for a source of iron.

The start :

 

[Tabarnak]

Made 2 attempts, one with Liberty and one with Honor.

Liberty rush :

Build order : scout-monument-units

Policies : citizenship(free worker)

Worker gave me 1 free unit from chopping. Built 2 warriors and 3 archers. With the free warrior we have 6 units. Let assume that the scout is away exploring.

Captured Rome at turn 29.

Honor rush :

Build order : scout-monument-units

Policies : Warrior code(free Great General)

Capital built 2 archers and 2 warriors for a total of 5 units with 20% more attack strengh.

Captured Rome at turn 29.

I lost a warrior because 2 barbs were there while surrounding Rome.

These were 2 similar rushes from a speed approach but with major differences for further developments. The Liberty approach gave me the possibility to improve my capital earlier. With Honor my capital wasn't improved yet. This is huge. You also save 6-7 turns of building a worker from your capital and make even more units if a rush goes farther. In this case, a free Great General will appear sooner or later.

I think Liberty is better than Honor for sub 30 turns rushes with only archers and warriors. Especially if there is a lot of forest around.

 

[MadDjinn]

I think Liberty is better than Honor for sub 30 turns rushes with only archers and warriors. Especially if there is a lot of forest around.

except that the Honour run can go deal more damage and take more cities, whereas the Liberty one would have to stop sooner or later.

not to mention that the Honour one could go farm barbs and hit Professional army within 30 more turns.

Ofc, keeping with Honour/swords means the hits just keep on coming.

and well, UU's matter, plus straight Archers don't really need Honour. (discipline only matters if you get attacked) The GG and improve promotions are nice, but the rest isn't as good.


oh, and a 4 warrior GG/discipline rush likely could have taken that city earlier.

 

[Tabarnak]

For a semi isolated start like this one Liberty is i think superior. You don't need Honor after you have continent for yourself. There will be more exercices with more ennemies to kill. We will see if Honor will be superior.

Don't forget that humans react differently than AIs. You need a lot more ranged units. A good player will hit you enough to not let you take promos in time.

With only warriors, it's much harder to take cities if you have to kill fortified warriors. Killing barbs slows down the rush as well. You can't waste turns to heal. With no barbs at all, you only have time to reach warrior code.

 

[tommynt]

totaly useles posts as EVEN if u get some1 not building a single unit apart a scout he ll still have a warrior a scout and a rush buyed spearman (if he got some brain) + a newbuilt warri (takes 2-3 turns)
= 4 units - what if WAY more then enough to defend yourself gainst few warris and archers

guys just stop playing people playing at prince lvl which u can simulate with ais.

 

[Silverfuturist]

totaly useles posts as EVEN if u get some1 not building a single unit apart a scout he ll still have a warrior a scout and a rush buyed spearman (if he got some brain) + a newbuilt warri (takes 2-3 turns)
= 4 units - what if WAY more then enough to defend yourself gainst few warris and archers

guys just stop playing people playing at prince lvl which u can simulate with ais.

Are you saying that if you play an FFA against good players, there is another player's capital 6 tiles away, you don't have iron and they do, France on the other side of you takes the good land first, you have a lost position?

 

[Tabarnak]

totaly useles posts as EVEN if u get some1 not building a single unit apart a scout he ll still have a warrior a scout and a rush buyed spearman (if he got some brain) + a newbuilt warri (takes 2-3 turns)
= 4 units - what if WAY more then enough to defend yourself gainst few warris and archers

guys just stop playing people playing at prince lvl which u can simulate with ais.

It's not always the case. For sure it's not possible to recreate a perfect world against humans. It's only for learning purpose. Demographics can tell you useful things.

Most players who don't start with Liberty will hard build a worker reducing build time for defense a lot. A rushed spearman costs 200 btw. It's not every game you can accumulate that much in less than 30 turns.

It's more an exercise about what is best against 1vs1 semi-isolated between Liberty and Honor. Liberty is better if you face more resistance(like you said) because you don't fall down so easily since you continue to improve your land and get a free settler for a source of iron later and remake a better assault with swords instead. 3 well placed archers can kill a single warrior(even fortified). What if you can steal a worker along the way? We want to see if it's possible to rush an opponent fast enough before he can get iron and do some damages(even if he got sufficient defense).

This thread is certainly useless for you Tommy . I do this for average/newbie players. Relax man, it's only a thread about learning basics. No one force you to participate...

I will propose 2 more exercises about early rushes to see other alternatives, more about the 35-50 turns range and with more neighbors. Simulating mp games must be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[KM]

totaly useles posts as EVEN if u get some1 not building a single unit apart a scout he ll still have a warrior a scout and a rush buyed spearman (if he got some brain) + a newbuilt warri (takes 2-3 turns)
= 4 units - what if WAY more then enough to defend yourself gainst few warris and archers

guys just stop playing people playing at prince lvl which u can simulate with ais.

I agree. U can not simulate a human with an AI (at any level). Diety will be hard, yes, but hard in a different way than a good human will.

Liberty rush goes something like this with some few variations.

Build in this order. Monument, scout (I sometimes do pottery (granary after scout) If I got deer or wheet around + calander, then straight for IW. I kow some disagree witht his order.

Anyway, liberty u take free settler, then +5%+1prod in each city. In the satelites u make army in the cap more settlers.

Settle on lux resources and the 4th or 5 th depending on situation, amount lux etc on 6 tile iron if posible.

I usually look for two things for my satelites, money lux and production. food is more secondary.

Upgrade & attack.

 

[KiffeLesBiffles]

It's not always the case. For sure it's not possible to recreate a perfect world against humans. It's only for learning purpose. Demographics can tell you useful things.

Most players who don't start with Liberty will hard build a worker reducing build time for defense a lot. A rushed spearman costs 200 btw. It's not every game you can accumulate that much in less than 30 turns.

It's more an exercise about what is best against 1vs1 semi-isolated between Liberty and Honor. Liberty is better if you face more resistance(like you said) because you don't fall down so easily since you continue to improve your land and get a free settler for a source of iron later and remake a better assault with swords instead. 3 well placed archers can kill a single warrior(even fortified). What if you can steal a worker along the way? We want to see if it's possible to rush an opponent fast enough before he can get iron and do some damages(even if he got sufficient defense).

This thread is certainly useless for you Tommy . I do this for average/newbie players. Relax man, it's only a thread about learning basics. No one force you to participate...

I will propose 2 more exercises about early rushes to see other alternatives, more about the 35-50 turns range and with more neighbors. Simulating mp games must be taken with a grain of salt.

It is an interesting post. Ok maybe, it is not THE strategy for ancient MP duel, it is interresting R&D.

For sure, you cant take a Human capital with such rush, but maybe you can :
- Take city states if available
- Take Human satellite cities
- You can do a blocus on a human capital : the player wont be able to work his iron tile, you just have to wait your. This need to be test.

But indeed, the other player have to be close, otherwise he can have iron before you attack.

 

[MasterMishi]

If this is in mp thread then should be more geared towards mp conditions. Already a good thread on the sword rush with good posts from kiffles and myself.

The warrior rush is really not worth it other than to choke, but will prob lose the units soon enough.

The sword rush is more useful as a choke, and will take a city if you have 2x army

the longs rush/ muskets or other uu is prob more realistic to provide a decisive win in mp.

 

[tommynt]

I once faced a guy trying to do a occ "rush" (he wasnt really rushing me) with China - he had pretty fast a army wih like 3 warris 2 archers and a gen and even when I had swords before he could really attack me he was still able to take a city (which was defended by 2 swords) - a general (even more CHina 1) is just really strong a makes a huge difference in a fight between 2 humans (that why the "ai-test" is just useless).

I was able so strike back with my just superior production but haveing to fight units with +20% all game still felt like a uphille battle.

So if u really want rush some1 I strongly suggest getting the gen - it doesnt make a difference for an unitless ai where u only have to take City but with the bonus also helping your units in forests not to get counterattacked its really helpful vs humans and definatly better as a worker doing few chops

 

[Rinnero]

I once faced a guy trying to do a occ "rush" (he wasnt really rushing me) with China - he had pretty fast a army wih like 3 warris 2 archers and a gen and even when I had swords before he could really attack me he was still able to take a city (which was defended by 2 swords) - a general (even more CHina 1) is just really strong a makes a huge difference in a fight between 2 humans (that why the "ai-test" is just useless).

I was able so strike back with my just superior production but haveing to fight units with +20% all game still felt like a uphille battle.

That reminds my match with you. (if thats not the one you are talking about). I knew from the very beginning that you are going to do a liberty production rush, and theoretically I thought that the only way to counter it is to rush when you still build settlers. But actually LP rusher can build army at satellite cities VERY fast, and once he built at least one more warrior, he is practically safe.

GG is quite important, but you can easily get it by fighting. And If you go honour, than even if you build cities, by the time you have 2 satellite cities (8production), your opponent that went liberty has 4 satellite cities (20 production). Without liberty, building cities to produce warriors is less "production effective". (~3 warriors to be "production profitable", only 2 with liberty) Thats why if you really want to rush no matter what its not too good idea to build cities.

Another advantage of LPR is city "recapturing". You can place units behind city and let enemy take it, than take it back. He loses a unit that captured that city, you lose too (if no click fest or double turn is involved), but you are at advantage because you produce more units. If an enemy is smart enough not to fall into that trap, he needs to kill at least two of three (for example) fortified units. Worse if they are at rough terrain. LPR's cities are weak and can be captured with 1-2 attacks of swordsman if at half HP)

Also, even if you DID captured a city or two than what? LP rusher still has two to go. As puppets they are quite useless at such harsh military activity. Annexing leads to major unhappiness. Burning gives you nothing. Though that is probably the only option. You have land you've fought for, but at what cost?

Now Im 100% sure that early rush cannot be effective if an opponent expects it and he is good. And the only "effective" rush is LPR. But even it can be countered. I think that either by the same LPR or settling 1-2 cities behind cap. (its harder to take one) Any other ideas?

 

[Tabarnak]

For sure, you cant take a Human capital with such rush, but maybe you can :
- Take city states if available
- Take Human satellite cities
- You can do a blocus on a human capital : the player wont be able to work his iron tile, you just have to wait your. This need to be test.

But indeed, the other player have to be close, otherwise he can have iron before you attack.

This is the kind of commentaries i was waiting for. It serves principally to push more suggestions for specific situations.

An early rush can be used principally to slow down your opponent until you get iron and at the same time to reduce his capacity to get iron before you.

Best we can do is to simulate on youtube such situations and cleary show everyone how it can be worked. I agree that we have a nice thread about the Swords Rush. But nothing else than 1vs1 yet.