Let's Play Immortal! #01: Ragnar (Take Two!)

[huerfanista]

It would be kinda more fun if the triremes can bombard city defenses though... then it would be totally awesome just using your early naval power to take down city defenses and then use amphibious ability to attack directly from the safety of the ships. Of course, it wouldn't really make sense considering what kind of ships triremes were, but still.... I can only dream..

Don't forget that zerks start with an innate 10% city attack bonus that "normal" maces don't get, plus another 10% from AGG's combat 1 promo. Add in a settled GG or civic for CR2 and you've got a 55% city attack bonus on top of a 10% strength bonus. CR3 zerks have +85% city attack on top of 10% strength. They do surprisingly well attacking from ships without bombardment if the AI doesn't have castles up.

 

[GKey]

@Gwaja So is it "play the map" or "play the leader"?

Very nice map, no doubt.

 

[Gwaja]

Don't forget that zerks start with an innate 10% city attack bonus that "normal" maces don't get, plus another 10% from AGG's combat 1 promo. Add in a settled GG or civic for CR2 and you've got a 55% city attack bonus on top of a 10% strength bonus. CR3 zerks have +85% city attack on top of 10% strength. They do surprisingly well attacking from ships without bombardment if the AI doesn't have castles up.

Now where have you been? You've also been on a hiatus... haven't seen you around. Are you playing this? I can imagine you owning this entire map with berserkers. Your shadow of my Shaka game and my Cathy game clearly tells me I should be looking forward to more of your warmongering skills. ^_^

EDIT: Regarding the comments on berserkers, is that against longbows or just archers? I am still not very comfortable with medieval warfare... most of the time it's been using my tech advantage by at least 1 tier to run over the AI in most of my games. So I'd like to learn more about this.

@Gwaja So is it "play the map" or "play the leader"?

Oh, whatever suits your bills really. ^_^ I don't really care if someone gets a Diplomatic Victory from the Apostolic Palace... heck I did that for my Sitting Bull game.

But I thought I heard that you have quite a reputation for being a warmonger yourself... from somewhere.... unless I am mistaken? ^_^

 

[Gwaja]

Preview of Next Game on Let's Play Immortal! #02

The next leader is Louis, who is Industrious and Creative. Do you like games where you spam out wonders like crazy and possibly maybe go for Cultural Victory all out? This guy literally screams for Culture Victory... and that unique building of his... the salon?

Now wouldn't it be nice to have BOTH marble AND stone readily available from the start... hmmm. ^_^

 

[huerfanista]

Now where have you been? You've also been on a hiatus... haven't seen you around. Are you playing this? I can imagine you owning this entire map with berserkers. Your shadow of my Shaka game and my Cathy game clearly tells me I should be looking forward to more of your warmongering skills. ^_^

I've been busy with RL lately and have mostly used my civ time tinkering around with using GSs to bulb down the GP line (Zara and Sulie OFC ). I won't have much time for CIV for the next 2 weeks tho. I'd definitely go for the Oracle> MC gambit, but with marble I'd chop the Oracle in my 3rd city and pre-chop a forge in my 2nd city for 100% GE, while building GLH + Colossus in the cap for a merchant to bulb CS. Might be difficult to pull off, but marble + FIN will help.

 

[Noogai]

I had some fun with ****. 1600 AD

Spoiler :

I attacked Sbull with quite small military forces (just enough to fill 4 galleons and a bit to refill) in terms of doing some traditional Viking robbing. I took his cities in my island (I still attacked from the sea..) and then razed and captured he's lonely island cities. I got nice treasury of gold and couple good cities + screwed up diplomacy of course.
I'm not so far behind in tech anymore either. But who should I attack next? Berserks vs. rifles could be challenging.... A huge army of berserks and frigates? Maybe worth of trying.

 

[CaF]

My video is up and it looks solid. The sound is a bit low but that's not such a big deal, I guess.

SPOILER! This video starts at 1545 AD. SPOILER!
Just so everyone got that.

I recorded the play until the end but I won't upload them. It takes too long and some parts are longer than 15 minutes, which youtube doesn't take. Have to find a way around those issues. Perhaps I could make 10 minute parts. but with a usual 3-4 hour game that still makes a lot of video parts and a lot of upload time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlkv-GOZeYM

I won around 1950 with UN while going space.

 

[Jester Fool]

It takes too long and some parts are longer than 15 minutes, which youtube doesn't take.

I think you just need x amount of subscribers or views or something (to upload longer vids). TMIT or Absolute Zero (among others) could tell you the specifics I'm sure.

 

[vranasm]

I think you just need x amount of subscribers or views or something (to upload longer vids). TMIT or Absolute Zero (among others) could tell you the specifics I'm sure.

well I am affraid no one knows exactly.
I had basically before recording CIV videos some amount of shorter videos uploaded (from WARhammer online and some videos from our trips around czech rep.) and when i tried to upload first video of civ which was longer then 15mins, it just failed, but from that point on they just allowed me to upload longer videos.

One thing is sure, you should never ever upload video with copyright issues, since after you upload such video and is deleted by YT, you lose this status (i read it in YT discussion forum).

 

[Noogai]

1700 AD retired when I had berserks and frigates against destroyers and infantry (though maybe I should have fought till the bitter end).
It was fun while it lasted. I only regret that I didn't raze more poorly protected cities just for stealing their treasury (that's what Vikings really did with berserks and surprising naval invasions until enemies became too advanced in military tech).

Spoiler :

 

[vranasm]

@Caf
nice video... happily I have some german background (actually it was my first foreign language I learned... living close to Austria has to do something with it)

but seeing the number of cities in the world I am happy I decided to skip the map

 

[CaF]

@Caf
nice video... happily I have some german background (actually it was my first foreign language I learned... living close to Austria has to do something with it)

I actually had like 4-5 lessons of Czech at school, but I didn't learn much beyond jak se mas and mam se dobre. The problem with the lessons was that they were voluntarily after school at friday afternoon, when the motivation to learn stuff is close to 0.

but seeing the number of cities in the world I am happy I decided to skip the map

Ahaha! The map was alright to play but in the very end I just lost the overview completely. I had 47(!) cities when I won and like 30 of them were building granary -> forge -> wealth and some airships until the end of the game. Those maps are really hard and tiring when you don't know what to expect. In this regard, they are pretty much the opposite of high sea level pangea maps.

 

[NihilZero]

Ah yes, Big and Small. It might as easily be called Enormous and Small, because it makes bloody big maps. They are usually fun and interesting, but it's a hard slog to finish off a domination.

 

[Capellan]

Quick note @820 AD.

Spoiler :

About to unleash the berserkers on Joao. Scouted his closer cities a couple turns ago and he had small numbers of archers, spears and axes. He has machinery, so I am going feudalism for longbows (in case he has iron for xbows) and hopefully to vassal him if the war goes well.

Full report later, however it turns out. Wish me luck!

 

[DanielTorrence]

@GKey

Berserker Rush!

Spoiler :

No!

Not a single fight.

GLH+MC from Oracle. Then slowly settled around. Got 14 excellent cities overall. Permanent tech lead with automated workers and governors.
Very nice and relaxing map indeed.

Don't remember when did I get space last time, but this map was asking for peaceful win.

...how you continued after the oracle? I like this map a lot, but since I am normally playing Monarch and occasionally Emperor, I struggle with what to do next here after the Oracle, and I really feel this map is fine to get an idea on strategy for expansion. Did you get Colossus? The mids? Did you run HR? At what time did you settle where? What did you research? I tried for colossus but then I was too slow to grap the nice sites, since Portugal expands quickly And I loose the CoL-Race, of course...Perhaps you have a save where I could take a look? Sorry for being so insistent...

 

[Gwaja]

...how you continued after the oracle? I like this map a lot, but since I am normally playing Monarch and occasionally Emperor, I struggle with what to do next here after the Oracle, and I really feel this map is fine to get an idea on strategy for expansion. Did you get Colossus? The mids? Did you run HR? At what time did you settle where? What did you research? I tried for colossus but then I was too slow to grap the nice sites, since Portugal expands quickly And I loose the CoL-Race, of course...Perhaps you have a save where I could take a look? Sorry for being so insistent...

I hope to post a more detailed update tomorrow, but for now...

Spoiler :

Getting the Colossus is pretty easy on this map. Since you have copper, if you build the Oracle and take Metal Casting from it, it should be a breeze. This should really give you a huge boost in commerce. I don't think the Pyramids are as desired since Ragnar is financial, and with Great Lighthouse and Colossus, it should more than suffice for generating beakers.

The key here is not to underexpand while building all of those wonders. You want to make sure that you want your other cities producing you workers and settlers while your capital gets you those wonders. It may be a better idea to build the Oracle in your 2nd city though.

It shouldn't be too hard to get Civil Service and Machinery early enough to invade your nearest neighbor with your navy and berserkers before one of those AI get Feudalism. If you can manage that, you are guaranteed to knock out at least 1 AI out of the picture.

Another good idea would be to purposely leave some unsettled land on your starting island so that you get some stream of barbarian spawns. I tried this and managed to get a couple of axemen to level 4, unlocking the Heroic Epic early. Upgrade those guys to berserkers and bam, you will be golden. ^_^

The AI on this map are no slouch though when it comes to teching. But those wonders will help tremendously in keeping up with them techwise.

 

[Noogai]

@GKey
...how you continued after the oracle? I like this map a lot, but since I am normally playing Monarch and occasionally Emperor, I struggle with what to do next here after the Oracle, and I really feel this map is fine to get an idea on strategy for expansion. Did you get Colossus? The mids? Did you run HR? At what time did you settle where? What did you research? I tried for colossus but then I was too slow to grap the nice sites, since Portugal expands quickly And I loose the CoL-Race, of course...Perhaps you have a save where I could take a look? Sorry for being so insistent...

Spoiler :

You can axe rush (or berserk rush if you prefer not to attack anyone else before gp based units) Portugal, but then koreans will have a lot of space to expand. Though if you have Jao's land (no need to take that dessert) and you can fully settle your own island, you should be pretty much fine as long as you don't mess up your economy by expanding too fast.

 

[DanielTorrence]

@Gwaja

Spoiler :

Getting the Colossus is pretty easy on this map. Since you have copper, if you build the Oracle and take Metal Casting from it, it should be a breeze. This should really give you a huge boost in commerce. I don't think the Pyramids are as desired since Ragnar is financial, and with Great Lighthouse and Colossus, it should more than suffice for generating beakers.

The key here is not to underexpand while building all of those wonders. You want to make sure that you want your other cities producing you workers and settlers while your capital gets you those wonders. It may be a better idea to build the Oracle in your 2nd city though.

It shouldn't be too hard to get Civil Service and Machinery early enough to invade your nearest neighbor with your navy and berserkers before one of those AI get Feudalism. If you can manage that, you are guaranteed to knock out at least 1 AI out of the picture.

The AI on this map are no slouch though when it comes to teching. But those wonders will help tremendously in keeping up with them techwise.

Thanks, that helped a lot.

Spoiler :

Got GL, Oracle (in the second city as proposed) and the colossus using this fantastic overflow wipping of workers and settlers. Still dont understand completly how to take the stored food into the calculation, but I did a two-pop whip when only 31 or so hammers where left to finish the worker, which allowed me to get those wonders and have somebody around to improve the land. I had to delay writing for quite some time to get the techs for the wonders but I think that was worth it.

Spoiler :

Another good idea would be to purposely leave some unsettled land on your starting island so that you get some stream of barbarian spawns. I tried this and managed to get a couple of axemen to level 4, unlocking the Heroic Epic early. Upgrade those guys to berserkers and bam, you will be golden. ^_^

I did that too,

Spoiler :

not so much on purpose but because I was probably slow in settling, but however, HE is unlocked now and I found it great to raise this one barb city with Berz. One of them over four turns was enough

What else happened:

Spoiler :

I settled the rest of the land and with colossus and financial coast commerce is crazy. I like especially how every new city pays for itself at once. Made it first to liberalism before Wang (by one turn, I tried a slingshot and had to reload, but thats fine since its a learning game for me and my first attempt on Immortal). Got nationalism but missed the Taj. Still, never thought I could get close to win Lib on this level, its a great map. Now I went for democracy and having a tech lead of one tech before Wang Kon, much more before the others, and I am not sure how to proceed.



As pointed out I would shoot for space, so would it make more sense to go the astro path and loose the colossus but gain observatories or is it better to got to AL for the factories first to produce wealth for higher BPT? Should I go for communism or free markets (which obsolets my GLH ) Which civic would you recommend, I have quite a few cottages but also a lot of food for specialists/cast. Thanks for the advise.

BTW, burning a GA (using a GS) with Colossus and financial ist really hell. All these coast tiles look amazing with their little money bags.

@Noogai

Spoiler :

You can axe rush (or berserk rush if you prefer not to attack anyone else before gp based units) Portugal, but then koreans will have a lot of space to expand. Though if you have Jao's land (no need to take that dessert) and you can fully settle your own island, you should be pretty much fine as long as you don't mess up your economy by expanding too fast.

On Monarch or Emperor I would agree, rushing is a fine thing, especially with Ragnar...but for me on Immortal this is not an option (yet). Too much logistics to micro - only two units per galley, lots of shipping. This is why I attempt to follow the totally untypical Ragnar peace expansion with a wussy space win

 

[Noogai]

@Noogai

Spoiler :

On Monarch or Emperor I would agree, rushing is a fine thing, especially with Ragnar...but for me on Immortal this is not an option (yet). Too much logistics to micro - only two units per galley, lots of shipping. This is why I attempt to follow the totally untypical Ragnar peace expansion with a wussy space win

Spoiler :

Jao is so close that it is not a problem at all! Though it's still just a suggestion against his expansion.

 

[Therianthrope]

I've been trying to muster the courage to try immortal for a while now and this looks like a good game to give it a go. And make this my first forum game/post

Didn't have a lot of time, and trying to play a little carefully since I'm normally Emperor level, so here's the story of the Vikings up to 775 BC.

Spoiler :

Settled in place. Started on a workboat, while working a forest grassland. Switched over to the marble tile after border pop. Worker next using the fish tile. Worker farmed the corn, mined the marble while waiting for his countrymen to find a way of cutting down trees.

Research went Agriculture - Mining - Bronze Working. I just wanted to chop some trees, but it turned out to be a great choice when copper popped right next to the capital! There goes my worries about immortal barbs at least. Now to worry about the 6 other civilized barbs standing in my way of global supremacy... I'll show them who's the immortal one yet!

So far I've met Joao, Wang Kon and Gandhi. None of which plot war at pleased. Gandhi seems to be on the island to my west, Wang Kon down south on the island with the rice + bananas and Joao on the island to the east of Wang Kon. Or is that the same island extending east? I've yet to find out.

After BW came Wheel (to start the roads to next city), Pottery (to start building some financial cottages, tho for some reason I neglected that for a long time) and Writing (to open borders, get Nidaros a library and start getting a great scientist)

Writing finished on turn 50 when Thucydides completed his greatest work listing the most advanced civilizations of the world. No surprises at being #7.

I wasn't too worried about Uppsala's border pop with all it's good tiles in the first ring. But the next city coming up needed a quicker border pop, so in came Mysticism.

I didn't think I was too far behind, but I figured the immortal AI, teching faster than I'm used to, would get to Alphabet soon. And with that marble nearby I was planning on grabbing some Aesthetics wonders. I do that too often with marble, but I'll try being adventurous on a difficulty I'm more used to. So I went Aesthetics - Polytheism. Currently Polytheism has 1 turn to go, with Literature next in line. And nobody I know has Alphabet And by now I feel too committed to trading Aesthetics for Alphabet to self tech it myself. It's 775 BC after all, they're bound to be close, right? Things just seem odd anyway, not even The Great Wall is built yet.

Diplo seems mellow as well. Joao can't quite make up his mind about Gandhi. One turn he hates his guts, the next he's cautious towards him. But it looks like it could be a peaceful game.

And once again, I'm so happy to have copper. Every 2 turns (and it's no exaggeration) for the past 10 turns or so there's a barb attack on Nidaros. They're like lemmings throwing themselves at my axeman garrisons. Oh well, it makes for an easy Heroic Epic somewhere I guess.

Current situation:

Spoiler :

A couple screenshots of the island.
West side:

East side:

Nidaros:

Uppsala:

Haithabu:

Haithabu got its border pop this turn, therefore none of the better tiles are being worked. Birka was founded this turn.

And some thoughts on my own play so far:

Spoiler :

- I researched pottery early just to get early cottages up, and didn't. That doesn't really sound like a good idea. Not that I'm particularly hurting for commerce, but more is always better, right?

- I ended up scouting east first, and didn't see the stone too early. I did settle my second city 2E of it, but thought I'd miss the Great Lighthouse and didn't attempt it. 775BC and it's still not gone. Kicking myself now, it would've been so good on this map.

- Related to that, I should've gone for sailing by now anyway. I don't have any trade routes with anyone, even tho I have open borders. Maybe I should switch now? It doesn't look like I'll be able to trade for it anytime soon anyway, with nobody willing to research Alphabet.

- The good thing is I'm at 4 cities already, with another settler out in 3 turns. 1 turn if I whip it. I'll probably be at 6 cities by around 1AD. I see 6, possibly 7 (if I settle that copper/silver/fish tundra city, might as well I guess). Which means if nobody brings settlers over to my island I can peacefully settle 11(!) cities? This might actually turn out to be my first immortal win after all.

- I need to start thinking about what I'm going to do after getting Literature, Great Library and possibly Parthenon. Math - Currency - CoL - Civil Service is what I end up doing in most games. And then trade for stuff I missed. I got 2 jungle gem sites tho, so maybe Iron Working? Dammit, someone discover the Alphabet already!

- And for victory condition. With those people in game peaceful space win seems like a possibility. But me not paying attention to the F8 window and someone winning culture before that is also a strong possibility with these guys. I really don't want to get into the logistics of trying to shuttle berserkers around in galleys, but maybe built a few and upgrade them to amphibious rifles and kick some butt during renaissance?

Added the save file as well, if anyone wants to take a peek.