Let's Play Immortal! #01: Ragnar (Take Two!)

@Therianthrope
Hallo and welcome to the forum...

And some thoughts on my own play so far:
Spoiler :

- I researched pottery early just to get early cottages up, and didn't. That doesn't really sound like a good idea. Not that I'm particularly hurting for commerce, but more is always better, right?

- I ended up scouting east first, and didn't see the stone too early. I did settle my second city 2E of it, but thought I'd miss the Great Lighthouse and didn't attempt it. 775BC and it's still not gone. Kicking myself now, it would've been so good on this map.

- Related to that, I should've gone for sailing by now anyway. I don't have any trade routes with anyone, even tho I have open borders. Maybe I should switch now? It doesn't look like I'll be able to trade for it anytime soon anyway, with nobody willing to research Alphabet.

- The good thing is I'm at 4 cities already, with another settler out in 3 turns. 1 turn if I whip it. I'll probably be at 6 cities by around 1AD. I see 6, possibly 7 (if I settle that copper/silver/fish tundra city, might as well I guess). Which means if nobody brings settlers over to my island I can peacefully settle 11(!) cities? This might actually turn out to be my first immortal win after all.

- I need to start thinking about what I'm going to do after getting Literature, Great Library and possibly Parthenon. Math - Currency - CoL - Civil Service is what I end up doing in most games. And then trade for stuff I missed. I got 2 jungle gem sites tho, so maybe Iron Working? Dammit, someone discover the Alphabet already!

- And for victory condition. With those people in game peaceful space win seems like a possibility. But me not paying attention to the F8 window and someone winning culture before that is also a strong possibility with these guys. I really don't want to get into the logistics of trying to shuttle berserkers around in galleys, but maybe built a few and upgrade them to amphibious rifles and kick some butt during renaissance?

Added the save file as well, if anyone wants to take a peek.

Spoiler :

- From looking at your pictures and playing the map myself I would say fast settling is of the essence here. The dotmapped cities in the west look nice but I assure you Joao will grab them very very fast, as well as the spots on the island in the southwest.
- The Great Lighthouse on this map was relativly easy to get, even for me as a noob, so was the oracle and with copper/financial coast the commerce keeps you in the game. Especially since with GL the new coastal cities are practically paying for themselfs right from go. I could image it will be quite hard without those wonders, relying only on cottages for the moment.
- You also might want sailing fast for a galley to get on an island for intercontinental trade routes. Trade routes with the AIs are important as well, so open boarders when you can. Especially the Koreans will be a pain, they have lots of room to expand and they really do it...


But I can only tell this for the early game...after lib I somehow always loose the pace and the AIs are catching up.
 
@Therianthrope
Hallo and welcome to the forum...



Spoiler :

- From looking at your pictures and playing the map myself I would say fast settling is of the essence here. The dotmapped cities in the west look nice but I assure you Joao will grab them very very fast, as well as the spots on the island in the southwest.
- The Great Lighthouse on this map was relativly easy to get, even for me as a noob, so was the oracle and with copper/financial coast the commerce keeps you in the game. Especially since with GL the new coastal cities are practically paying for themselfs right from go. I could image it will be quite hard without those wonders, relying only on cottages for the moment.
- You also might want sailing fast for a galley to get on an island for intercontinental trade routes. Trade routes with the AIs are important as well, so open boarders when you can. Especially the Koreans will be a pain, they have lots of room to expand and they really do it...


But I can only tell this for the early game...after lib I somehow always loose the pace and the AIs are catching up.

Generally speaking, the AI's tech pace really starts to pick up around the late-Medieval/Renaissance era, and if a few of the AI's are friendly with one another it goes even faster. In my experience, on Immortal you're not going to outtech the AI once they get going (I've seen the AI research Industrial era techs in !3! turns). You need to get one or two of them to Friendly, or vassalize an AI who techs decently, and make some trades by prioritizing techs the AI doesn't target.
 
Generally speaking, the AI's tech pace really starts to pick up around the late-Medieval/Renaissance era, and if a few of the AI's are friendly with one another it goes even faster. In my experience, on Immortal you're not going to outtech the AI once they get going (I've seen the AI research Industrial era techs in !3! turns). You need to get one or two of them to Friendly, or vassalize an AI who techs decently, and make some trades by prioritizing techs the AI doesn't target.

I guess thats the way, and thats what different from lower levels, where you can usually tech all things by yourself and will still be faster...seriously, Industrialism in three turns? Thats just nuts. I had a decent junk of good quality land in this game and still needed could almost not keep up with Wang. Good players can, obviously and ma even lead like GKey proved (1809 space win)...my spaceship only arrived in 1910.

Anyway, at least I won, although
Spoiler :
I had to bribe Izzy to war with Ramses (with advanced flight and computers), she was pretty strong that game, and thankfully she raised captured one of his legendary cities two turns before it reached 50000. My marines might have been too late by then.
 
@DanielTorrence That was 1908 Space, not 1809. Thx for the credit though. :lol:

Spoiler :

AI's start incredibly slow at on water heavy maps. I got Biology from LIb while no one had paper still. From now on only thing I was doing, pick tech path and press next turn with workers automated. Could be faster if keep microing myself. Joao peace vassaled to Wang and he started catch up very fast. Almost got me with spaceship.
 
@DanielTorrence That was 1908 Space, not 1809. Thx for the credit though. :lol:

Spoiler :

AI's start incredibly slow at on water heavy maps. I got Biology from LIb while no one had paper still. From now on only thing I was doing, pick tech path and press next turn with workers automated. Could be faster if keep microing myself. Joao peace vassaled to Wang and he started catch up very fast. Almost got me with spaceship.

Spoiler :
Ha, I mixed the money you had in the bank with the finish date :) seriously, Biology? :crazyeye:Do you remember your Lib time? Mine was 1070 and Wang had it one turn later, I was far away from Bio at that time. Depends probably also from the philosophie bulb. I guess, war is faster, following the suggestions from the other players here. Still, it was good fun to race to space.
 
Okay, here comes a fairly detailed update. ^_^

Update to 925 BC: Your comments and advice are desired!

Spoiler :
I moved the scout to the marble hill first. It revealed another river to the north and some more hills that were not covered in forest. I did think about moving 1N, just like vranasm, but then decided that doing so means that I just might not be able to utilize the 2 seafood resources. So I settled in place:

Civ4ScreenShot0000-3.jpg


This capital should be a great GP farm. Obviously it lacks hills for hammers, but it will still be quite decent with 2 hills. I can workshop the non-riverside flat tiles for more hammers later.

Now I did think about opening up with a worker first, but that would eventually run into problems because the worker will eventually end up sitting idle with nothing to do. I don't want to farm any tiles except for the corn, because that is a waste of time when I have 2 seafood resources. Plus, I am financial. I should be cottaging the riverside grassland tiles with this much food around. Mining the marble hill is also not too optimal because I will eventually quarry it anyway. So I opened with a workboat first:

Civ4ScreenShot0001-2.jpg


Not a great tile to work, but it's the fastest way to get hammers for now. After the 1st border pop, I switched the worked tile to the marble hill which yields 3 hammers. That sped up the process.

As for tech path, I opened up with Mining → Bronze Working first, followed by Masonry.

Look what we found!

Civ4ScreenShot0002-2.jpg


Yes, I get overly excited when I find stone and/or marble nearby. Some of you don't really care for wonders but I like building them even if I am planning on warmongering. These things can really change the game for ya. Even if I am not building any stone boosted wonders, this at least ensures that I get a production bonus for Oxford, which is never bad.

Turn 7 @ 3720 BC: Buddhism was founded in the distant land. Mining was finished and we started on teching Bronze Working.

A few turns pass by, as my scout continued exploring the land. Nidaros finished the workboat, and I switched production to a worker. I did think about going with 2 workboats to start, but then I decided that by the time the worker comes out, it will be 1 turn before Bronze Working. Moving him to a forest hill would consume 1 turn of moving, so that on the turn that Bronze Working is finished, the worker can start chopping the forest on the plains hill and speed up the production of the next workboat.

Civ4ScreenShot0003-1.jpg


Turn 13 @ 3480 BC: Hinduism was founded in the distant land.

And on the following turn, a scout on the landmass across the coast south from Nidaros made contact with us:

Civ4ScreenShot0004-1.jpg


In my earlier games, Wang was usually an AI that didn't do very well. But lately, he's been doing quite well for himself. Also I have noticed in other people's online games that he is perhaps not as bad as I initially thought. He doesn't expand as fast as some other AI, but he does tech very well. Getting him to friendly is not too hard either because he likes Caste System, which I do like to run frequently. Let's see how this game plays out.

Just like I expected, the build queue worked rather perfectly:

Civ4ScreenShot0005-1.jpg


The worker was just finished on this turn and moved to the plains hill forest tile. Bronze Working will be done the next turn, which means he can start chopping without having to have wasted any turns sitting idle. I guess this works out much better than starting with 2 workboats. I am rather glad things worked out this way. ^_^

Now where is that copper?

Civ4ScreenShot0006-1.jpg


It just happens to be right next to the capital. ^_^ Very nice. This should provide much needed hammer boost to the capital. No worries about not being able to build axemen or berserkers for that matter. This also gets me thinking about the Colossus possibility.

Soon, another scout from the same landmass across the seas from Nidaros where the Korean scout made contact with us, made its introduction:

Civ4ScreenShot0007-1.jpg


Joao the backstabber. He expands fast and is generally annoying. I despise him just as much as I do Louis, but for different reasons. I would have to watch his city count carefully.

Masonry was finished soon. Agriculture → Wheel → Sailing were selected next to be able to farm the corn and to be able to connect the marble with roads once the quarry is set up. Once I get a 2nd worker and a settler out, I can then immediately work on the Trading Post → Great Lighthouse.

Turn 31 @ 2760 BC: Judaism was founded in the distant land.

A few turns passed by, as I settled my 2nd city:

Civ4ScreenShot0008-1.jpg


It is not coastal, but the site was so tempting. It's got an irrigated wheat, can also work the cows, and have a lot of hills for hammer production, as well as a couple of floodplains. This will be a very good production city, and I am thinking about building the Oracle here.

Meanwhile, on the same turn, a workboat from another AI was exploring our modest sized island's northern coast and made contact with us the same turn Uppsala was founded:

Civ4ScreenShot0009-1.jpg


Gandhi, founder of Hinduism, is quite predictable. He techs well, is very peaceful, and a serious threat for Culture Victory. It is almost a guarantee that he will beeline to Music and try to build the Sistine Chapel. If I can put a stop to that, I will try.

Meanwhile, on Turn 47 @ 2120 BC, Hinduism was spread from Gandhi to my capital city:

Civ4ScreenShot0010-1.jpg


Since Wang and Joao have yet to convert, this means that they haven't founded any of the first 3 religions yet in this game. So it is probably a safe bet to convert, but I haven't yet revolted to Slavery either. So I decided to take Slavery for now and then adopt this new religion as I see fit soon.

Sailing was done a couple of turns later. It is now time to beeline to Priesthood. I think it was a misplay that I didn't get Mysticism early enough so that Uppsala can work on a monument for a border pop. No matter though... it is building me a worker for now. The capital was 2 turns away from building out my 1st axeman, and then after that, it should be a straight shot to the Great Lighthouse.

Turn 51 @ 1960 BC: Stonehenge was built in the distant land.

Some whipping action, a 2-pop whipping a Trading Post, and applying the overflow into the Great Lighthouse:

Civ4ScreenShot0011-1.jpg


Nidaros, on the next turn, with the whip overflow and a tree chop:

Civ4ScreenShot0012-1.jpg


Another whipping action, a 2-pop whipping an axeman (Barbarians were starting to encroach into my borders), and applying the maximum possible overflow into the Great Lighthouse with another chop to come next turn:

Civ4ScreenShot0013-1.jpg


A short interruption from Gandhi. He came demanding to convert to Hinduism. I almost did it until I realized that Wang converted to Judaism. Since Joao and Wang seem to share the same landmass, it might be possible that converting to Hinduism too early might not be to my benefits. So I declined.

Civ4ScreenShot0014.jpg


Nidaros, the turn after the whip, with the whip overflow plus a tree chop:

Civ4ScreenShot0015.jpg


On Turn 64 @ 1440 BC, I finished researching Pristhood:

Civ4ScreenShot0016.jpg


This was via Meditation. I would normally prefer to go to Priesthood via Polytheism usually, since it is a prerequisite to Literature and unlocks some key wonders. Meditation is, of course, required for Philosophy, but that's not until much later. But in my case, since I already had a religion spread to me, this gives me the option to build monasteries if I see fit. Also it is slightly faster due to Meditation being a little bit cheaper in beaker cost.

Since Uppsala just finished building its cheap barracks, I started on the Oracle in that city right away, while researching Pottery now to make sure that I can take Metal Casting as a freebie tech.

On the next turn, I finished the Great Lighthouse in Nidaros:

Civ4ScreenShot0017.jpg


That was fun. Not my personal best in getting this thing built in fastest time, but this will do. Now the capital should be pumping out a settler and a worker or two.. or maybe more axemen... Barbarians are starting to become a problem. Just look at this!

Civ4ScreenShot0018.jpg


At least they are only warriors. Now this gives me a great opportunity to farm some experience and get at least one unit to level 4 to unlock the Heroic Epic.

But first, I have another pressing matters at hand. That is, getting the Oracle. And what do you know?

Civ4ScreenShot0019.jpg


Civ4ScreenShot0020.jpg


HA! Who says Ragnar can't or shouldn't be building wonders? ^_^ Taking Metal Casting is a no brainer at this point. I am thinking that the AI would most likely put a heavier emphasis on researching this due to the map being water heavy. Why is that you ask? Because the hammers are in shorter supply which forges can address, as well as having to deal with barbarian galleys with triremes that are unlocked by Metal Casting. Normally I would never consider trading Metal Casting since AI are slow at getting it unless they built the Oracle themselves, but in this case, I might just use it as an early trade bait. We shall see.

After I dealt with the horde of barbarian warriors, I soon built my 3rd city:

Civ4ScreenShot0021.jpg


I might as well use the advantage I have with the Great Lighthouse and build my cities on the coast as much as I can possibly make it happen. I didn't want to build cities too far apart to start with, so I chose this site as a stopping point for my expansion up towards the silver/wheat/fish site to the north as you will soon see.

Turn 74 @ 1040 BC: Great Wall was built in the distant land.

Turn 78 @ 925 BC: I finished Writing. Now I am at a stopping point, so I am going to stop here.

Cities:

Civ4ScreenShot0022.jpg


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Civ4ScreenShot0024.jpg


Diplo:

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Foreign Advisor:

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Wonders:

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Local Map with Dot Mapping, South & North:

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Nobody has Alphabet, so I can't see where the others are in terms of tech. I do know that Wang has Monarchy because he is running Hereditary Rule though. Gandhi also has Monotheism because he is running Organized Religion.

Everyone is kinda getting along at the moment, with no worst enemies yet. I do have the option of converting to Hinduism, but I think it is a bit premature.

I have yet to meet 3 other AI on this map. They are most likely due east, since all the ones I have met are either from the south or to the west.

My goal is to go into expansion mode, taking full advantage of the Great Lighthouse and build as many coastal cities as I possibly can. Exploring more of the map with my fast ships is also desired to reveal more of the map and the 3 unmet AI and their cities as well. Since I have Metal Casting, I should build at least 1 trireme to protect my seafood from barbarian galleys which will most likely be a problem.

I also need more workers and need more defensive forces to deal with barbarian spawns as well. However, I am trying to get one of the existing axemen to level 4 to unlock the Heroic Epic. Hopefully I will be able to manage that.

I also think I need to build a library up as soon as possible to increase my research rate. As for wonders, I am seriously considering the Colossus now that I have Metal Casting and copper nearby. Having that would really provide a huge boost and make any coastal cities viable anywhere with a Trading Post, if food becomes a problem. Our continent has some spots where there aren't any special resources nearby and are only looking good as filler cities, so having them coastal is preferred.

Other than the Colossus, the only other great wonder I want is the Great Library, preferably in my capital, which should be a great GP Farm.

As for research, I just finished Writing so I am at that point in the game as to where to direct my research. I am thinking Aesthetics, but the problem with that route is the possibility that Gandhi might be going that route as well. I could go for Alphabet, or maybe even Mathematics. The probability is very high that my 1st Great Person may be a Great Merchant, in which case, I will most likely bulb Currency (after getting either Mathematics or Alphabet) to get one more trade route in my cities as well as to use it as trade bait.

I do want to try going for a Great Engineer, but I don't think I can get a forge up in time soon enough to secure a high chance of popping one. Uppsala has the Oracle so I don't want to chance it by building the forge there and hope that I don't pop a Great Prophet. The 3rd city has just been built, so it will take some time to get it going. As for Nidaros, I suppose I could build a forge there... I want to build the Colossus in there to stack the Great Merchant GP point bonus, and the forge is a requirement for that...

Pretty interesting map with lots of possibilities. The AI seem to be researching quite well so far, especially Wang and Gandhi. There isn't any warmongering AI to cause trouble and slow down the tech race yet, so I just might have to be the culprit and try to play an aggressive game.


Question: Do you guys like this way of my posting images or should I go back the old way of putting spoiler tags per image and making the image larger than 1024 horizontal size? I tried doing it this way per vranasm's request.
 

Attachments

@DanielTorrence
Spoiler :
Don't remember exact lib date. Same as yours I guess. I was mistaken in my report. I got CoL from Oracle, not MC. I'd go for MC, if I going for Berserkers, but once you realize - there is plenty of room to settle - rush wasn't needed, so it was CoL for peaceful teching.
Bulbed philo for cast/pacifism, bulb-finish Education, bulb Lib to 1 turn, bulb-finish Printing Press, bulb-finish Chemistry, bulb-finish SciMeth -> Biology.
Possible reasons for slow down here: expand too rapid while it's not needed, trade too much while it's not needed too. I call this map relaxing because you don't need any special tricks here. Expand slowly work only improved tiles, run specs where possible and win.
Traded only for machinery (after bulb Lib), engineering and guilds, since then no trades at all. Did not want to advance AI's too much. With GLH and nice cities tech rate was high enough for permanent tech lead.
 
Quick question @GKey and anyone else who has finished or at least played until 1 AD:

Spoiler :

In my game, Gandhi is the 1st to Alphabet, but he already has researched Aesthetics, which I researched, in hopes of using that as trade bait. As expected, he is making a beeline to Music, which is not too surprising. I only have Metal Casting as trade bait to get Alphabet from him, but I am not sure if I want to do that. I think, on water maps like this, AI do prioritize Metal Casting a lot more than on land maps due to their desire to get forges to make up for lack of hammers on the map, as well as triremes to deal with barbarian galleys.

Would it be wise to hold off on trading Metal Casting and wait until someone other than Gandhi gets Alphabet and then make trades? Or should I pull the trigger?
 
@Gwaja
I like this format better, but not the difference isn't that big that I would complain if you went back to the other format.

Re: your game question
Spoiler :

If you give Gandhi MC, how much risk does that pose of costing you the Colossus? (remembering that he could trade it to an Industrious civ the next turn, if there is one on the map and he's met them)
 
@Capellan,

I guess then I will continue posting images this way. ^_^

About the other issue:

Spoiler :
I have only met Gandhi, Wang, and Joao, and none of them are Industrious. Of course, I do have a forge in my capital built already, so I think I will be safe with not losing the Colossus. The key here, I think, is that since I will have tons of commerce through the Great Lighthouse and the Colossus (if I manage to get it built), I should have little trouble teching in this game, so advancing the AI too much might not be desired in this situation.

Normally on land heavy maps, AI don't tend to prioritize self researching Metal Casting. The only exception is the builder of the Oracle who almost always takes Metal Casting as a freebie. Once the Oracle is built though, Metal Casting tends to stay as a monopoly tech for a very long time. But on a water heavy map like this, I have a feeling that it might be different due to reasons I stated above: more need for triremes and to make up for lower hammers from the map type.

I do want to get Alphabet as quickly as possible, because sooner you get it, the better. On the other hand, it just doesn't make me feel comfortable about trading Metal Casting away.
 
Depends on situation.
  • Your tech rate.
  • How many techs backfield you need.
  • Is Gandhi tech leader?
  • Relations of Gandhi with rest AIs (will he trade it away?).

Spoiler :
Colossus is pretty mediocre wonder even on this map. Last concern to me.
 
@GKey,

Spoiler :
I think it is a bit too early to answer those questions, especially on the issue of whether or not Gandhi is a tech leader or not. No way of knowing that unless I have Alphabet... so it is either I wait until someone else gets it, or I make the trade now and take a gamble.

Or would waiting it out to get Alphabet be more of a gamble.... I wonder...

As for Gandhi's relations? I think he still trades at cautious. Definitely no "Annoyed" relations yet on this map so far. So I'd say the chances are there that he would trade it away.... especially considering that Wang has Monarchy already.... which means Wang might have some techs that Gandhi doesn't have.

My tech rate... not sure if I am doing well on that... need someone else to evaluate for me. ^_^

As for backfill techs... I am assuming you mean cheap techs that I skipped so far... most likely Polytheism, Monotheism, and maybe Archery... since I started with Hunting, getting Archery might make sense since I can't build warriors anymore for Hereditary Rule happiness. So cheap archers might be better way to go than building spears or axes.
 
@gwaja

Spoiler :

I read it very quickly.
One thing I don't understand why you put inland 2nd city when you plan to build GLH.
You could make stone+wheat and plains cow+FP cities both coastal.
The stone will be tricky to make anyway, in theory fish+stone+cow, but without creative you will be stuck there very long.
Very nice times for GLH and Oracle though, very impressive... not sure if I could achieve such dates ;-)
 
@Gwaja after looking at save

Spoiler :

No offence ;)
  • What does that axe doing in Nidaros? Put 1 warrior there and send axe gather free xp from barb warriors. Scout is good for fogbusting too btw, he got nothing to do inside.
  • Zero cottages by turn 78. With financial leader. Can't be so.
  • I'd put 3rd city on silver/fish/wheat spot, you need that happy.
  • Stonehenge went ~turn 50 both in mine and yours games - VERY late. Means we could shoot for CS from Oracle. Did not risk that though. Took CoL for cast and much needed happy from religion.
  • GLH gives you nice tech rate. Imagine if you had these cottages.

Looking how slow these guys are I went Alpha myself, Currency next, trade for Monarchy ASAP, or tech it if needed. Should not take long.
Here is my save from turn 80. Looks pretty similar to yours.
 

Attachments

@DanielTorrence
Spoiler :
Don't remember exact lib date. Same as yours I guess. I was mistaken in my report. I got CoL from Oracle, not MC. I'd go for MC, if I going for Berserkers, but once you realize - there is plenty of room to settle - rush not needed, so it was CoL for peace teaching.
Bulbed philo for cast/pacifism, bulb-finish Education, bulb Lib to 1 turn, bulb-finish Printing Press, bulb-finish Chemistry, bulb-finish SciMeth -> Biology.
Possible reasons for slow down here: expand too rapid while it's not needed, trade too much while it's not needed too. I call this map relaxing because you don't need any special tricks here. Expand slowly work only improved tiles, run specs where possible and win.
Traded only for machinery (after bulb Lib), engineering and guilds, since then no trades at all. Did not want to advance AI's too much. With GLH and nice cities tech rate was high enough for permanent tech lead.

Thanks for the hints, this should help me improve.

I did indeed
Spoiler :
make this a tech brocker game, which kept the AI much up to date, and I expanded very fast without enough workers to actually improve the new cities fast enough, and I was neglecting the religion. The bulb path to the Biology sounds good, will try that some time. I had quite some GS just hanging around, unsure what to do with them
 
@vranasm,

Spoiler :

I know what you are talking about with the 2nd city, but the site I chose was going to give me a huge boost immediately in hammer production. Since I wanted to get the Oracle built in a 2nd city and not in the capital, having a hammer sufficient city right away was a huge boost. Granted it is not coastal, but it would more than make up with its hammer production. I am thinking about building a Heroic Epic here, though it would be nice to build it in a coastal city... but I don't see a good site for it.

Had I tried to go coastal in the 2nd city, I most definitely wouldn't have gotten the Oracle built by that date, which means I would have lost out on the Oracle most definitely. I know that I beat this unknown AI to the Oracle by 1 turn.

From now on though, I want all of my future cities coastal.


@GKey,

Spoiler :

No offense taken. I actually prefer brutally truthful criticisms actually. It helps me more. ^_^

1. Barbarians are spawning continuously. It would be too much effort trying to fogbust them out. I can't even build any more warriors because I start with Hunting and I got the copper hooked up. And I can't build archers because I don't have Archery.... I am just letting the barbarians come to me, and I am dealing with them as they come. This got me 1 unit to Level 4, so now I am only Literature away from unlocking Heroic Epic.

2. Good point with cottages. But I've been whipping and producing stuff more actually. I've been concentrating more on food and hammers so far. But yeah, I am gonna want to start putting up some cottages soon.

3. Silver/fish/wheat spot is a great one. I am planning on going there as a matter of fact. And then after that, I will probably try to claim the gems to the east... not sure if I should expand with gaps in between though... but gems + silver + forges = nice happy boost.

4. Actually I know that had I been 1 turn late, I would have been beaten to the Oracle. I saved the game the turn before the Oracle was finished, and then after I got it built, I went back and reloaded to see how close another AI would be to finishing it. Needless to say, had I not finished the Oracle that turn, I would have been beaten to it by an unknown AI. So I am confident in saying that I can't just assume in my game that the wonders will be going slowly...

5. Yes, cottages. But remember that I've been whipping quite a bit too. And I think I need to whip more... need more workers, more settlers, and more units... and a library or two and an extra forge at that. So it's gonna be tough trying to work cottages when you are whipping. Now I don't know if I should stop the whips and let the population grow, and switch to Caste System immediately upon Code of Laws though... getting things built would take a long time this way but it's got its benefits I suppose.

It's the decision between sticking with Slavery or switching to Caste System that always becomes a dilemma in my games.

6. Having Gandhi in this game means that he would most definitely beeline straight to Music as he almost always does, and tries to build the Sistine Chapel. So Aesthetics may not be a great choice after Writing after all.

I am almost certain that my 1st Great Person would be a Great Merchant. If that's the case, I am seriously thinking about bulbing Currency and get immediate benefit from extra trade route. After Currency, Code of Laws would be cheap to tech, since I would have both prerequisites already researched. I'd prefer to trade for Mathematics, since I could use the bonus hammers from chops though.

I am not planning on building the Pyramids in this game, so Monarchy is very desired. I know Wang has it already because he is running Hereditary Rule already... doubtful that he would trade it though unless either Gandhi or Joao has it too.

Can't look at your save now but I would do it the first chance I get tomorrow.

Thanks for your feedback... really helpful. ^_^
 
I didn't go for the oracle/colossus, usually when i do TGL i focus on getting cities up quick afterwards.
 
Love this map. Looks like I'm tired of fighting :) Played it through again. Yes Lib-Bio 980AD. No one got education by then.
 
Question for gawja/board-

Is it better to work marble at size one while building workboat, or to grow to size two on corn then work marble to complete the wb?

The worker at 2 would have the +1 food and you gain the 1 commerce from the wet corn for the entire time. I'm trying to think how much quicker you can get the wb out for the +3 commerce and if it outweighs the commerce from the corn over the time it takes to complete the wb/worker. (sorry, typing on an iPad and thinking out loud).

I'm on vacation but can't wait to join this game later! Would love to play more on immortal.
 
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