Life after the B-Line

[xienwolf]

What are people's thoughts on methods to connect the various branches of the Tech tree?

There are a few cases in the game already. Arcane Barges require Naval + Arcane is one nice example. The upper end archery and mounted units using Weapon upgrades is a slightly better integration even than that. And the Mobility Promotions are a fairly simplistic one.



In FfH, specialization is expected, and rewarded. But once you have specialized, going for almost anything else seems like it is just a temporary amusement while you go about stomping the world with your advanced squad of crack troops from your original branch.


So, a pair of ideas to get started with would be:

Grant Berserkers a strong spell which is only available after you research Strength of Will (Like a super-Rage which doubles their attack power, but causes them to become immobile for 2 turns after their next fight).

Make Medicine provide a promotion which is an upgrade to Poisoned Blade (which in turn is only available through a spell) allowing +3 Poison instead of just +1 Poison, or make it allow Poisoned Blade to be used on Melee, Archers and Mounted as well as Recon.



The goal is to come up with ideas that make you want to specialize a second time. It would be nice for things to be as generally useful as Mobility, but later in the Tech tree so that one must strive hard to get to them like Weapon Upgrades (Mithril) are. But it could also be nice to have a handful early in the Tech tree which can allow a person who is NOT specializing to have some tricks up his sleeve which might allow his diverse T2 units to stand up to the occasional specialized T4 unit.

 

[Demus]

well, magic obviously boosts other units (melee mainly, but recon and mounted aswell), making it a very decent 2nd specialization route. Same could be said for metals + religious (which already gets rewarded by the immortals, and metal requirements for the T4 disciples), aswell as the higher level ships requiring metals. You could make some of the tech combinations give advanced buildings (like the Luchirps), say for example an enchanters guild for melee units, available at a sorcery tech.

 

[scaramouche]

What if, instead of (or in addition to when combined with another tech), Medicine provided an immunity to poison damage instead? Maybe the herbalist, with medicine + reagents, makes all troops in that location immune to poison?

In fact, that'd be a decent way to create synergy in general, I think. Earlier building + later tech + resource = special effect. Though that would generally conspire to create defensive rather than offensive bonuses. Hrm.

Silk + Forge + Mercantilism gives all arcane units +1 defense, perhaps? A silk armor sort of thing?

 

[rusty217]

What if, instead of (or in addition to when combined with another tech), Medicine provided an immunity to poison damage instead? Maybe the herbalist, with medicine + reagents, makes all troops in that location immune to poison?

In fact, that'd be a decent way to create synergy in general, I think. Earlier building + later tech + resource = special effect. Though that would generally conspire to create defensive rather than offensive bonuses. Hrm.

Silk + Forge + Mercantilism gives all arcane units +1 defense, perhaps? A silk armor sort of thing?

I really like these ideas, they are flavourful, would be a decent bonus (especially for mages vs assassins) and would require actual effort to get...

 

[scaramouche]

Bananas + Gorilla cage + Animal Bond give you, uh, I have no idea actually. But man, let me tell you, I really want bananas and gorillas to give you something! I can't help it.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

a really happy gorilla...

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Just for fun, I think that in my modmod Gurid and Marmaduke may gain Banana affinity. That would be way too much for normal gorillas though.

 

[Demus]

you could turn banana into a weapon promo though, giving +1 attack and defence, only available to gorillas? A well-fed gorilla is a strong gorilla

 

[scaramouche]

Just for fun, I think that in my modmod Gurid and Marmaduke may gain Banana affinity. That would be way too much for normal gorillas though.

So, in my first game ever as Svartalfar (I'm pretty new to this most excellent Fall from Heaven business!), I managed to get a Beastmaster up to 100xp very very quickly by casting Nature's Fervor (I think that's the one - the world project that turns all barbs into animals). There was a barb city south of me filled with goblins and orcs and they all turned into nice tamable lions and wolves.

Anyway, things got much, much better than that when my 30+ strength Beastmaster killed Acheron and Gurid. And, thus, tamed both of them! For some reason, the AI decided to hurl troops at my totally immobile domesticated red dragon - which gave him enough xp for mobility I (among other things). So, I ignored making armies. I just had the Beastmaster of doom, Gurid and Acheron wander around destroying cities. Admittedly, this was only on noble but man, that was a TREAT.

I would FEAR doing that with a banana-loving Gurid!

 

[it-ogo]

Civ is a strategy game. The value of strategy comes from combinations. I mean that some (many) unusual combinations (not only of techs) should give something which can in some situations give an essential advantage. That is what makes the game interesting.

The simpliest way to empower combinations is to provide a bunch of cheap world wonders and heroes whith combo prerequisites.

Example: Feral bonds, Optics and fish allows a hero Sea snake with great speed and fish affinity. Poisons+Sanitatoin+mind mana = ww, allowing to build bears (enough crazy combo to switch on imagination to explain).

The problem that Kael's position to avoid templates goes into contradiction with adding more stuff. Without systematization it is hard to make, handle, balance and even remember enough big number of nice possibilities.

I think if each two techs of the same level and price (or at least many combinations) would give some WW with very specific effect the game will be more interesting.

There is a system of resources: (Corn,Rice,Wheat), (Pig,Sheep,Cow), (Deer,Fur,Ivory)...
Let us make a number of mini-WWs for that who is able to gather each full group: Corn+Rice+Wheat = WW +5health, +3 food per turn. Etc. correspondingly. Easy to remember, nice to play and to plan.

 

[Err0l]

Bananas + Gorilla cage + Animal Bond give you, uh, I have no idea actually. But man, let me tell you, I really want bananas and gorillas to give you something! I can't help it.

An event, perhaps?

The local gorilla cage has a quite intelligent orang-utan inside it.

We have no use for those monkeys.
- one turn of civilian anger
- units in the city get damaged
- spawns a strong barbarian orang-utan near the city
- gorilla cage gets removed

The city guard will surely need another member.

- spawns a strong orang-utan under your control in the city

Send him to the library, I'm sure he'll get along.

- Library: + 5% beakers, +5% with bananas

What? A orang-utan is in the gorilla cage? Give him a seperate cage and care for him.

- Gorilla cage: +2 beakers, +3 culture, +1 gold



Just my daily nonsense.

 

[JDexter]

Very nice Discworld reference, that would indeed be a hilarious event!

 

[Demus]

An event, perhaps?

The local gorilla cage has a quite intelligent orang-utan inside it.

We have no use for those monkeys.
- one turn of civilian anger
- units in the city get damaged
- spawns a strong barbarian orang-utan near the city
- gorilla cage gets removed

The city guard will surely need another member.

- spawns a strong orang-utan under your control in the city

Send him to the library, I'm sure he'll get along.

- Library: + 5% beakers, +5% with bananas

What? A orang-utan is in the gorilla cage? Give him a seperate cage and care for him.

- Gorilla cage: +2 beakers, +3 culture, +1 gold



Just my daily nonsense.

I like it, even though some of the options should include a gold cost (or a library present ).
Besides that, the Unseen University should really be added as a WW! Maibe requiring sorcery and a higher recon tech, granting adepts the ability to become invisible? And ofcourse: allowing for a special adept world unit, which works like a gypsy wagon: Can't cast any spells, but can decrease hammers and GP growth in a city (guess who)

 

[Wyrmhero]

I like it, even though some of the options should include a gold cost (or a library present ).
Besides that, the Unseen University should really be added as a WW! Maibe requiring sorcery and a higher recon tech, granting adepts the ability to become invisible? And ofcourse: allowing for a special adept world unit, which works like a gypsy wagon: Can't cast any spells, but can decrease hammers and GP growth in a city (guess who)

Hmmm... Shouldn't the certain... Wizard... Have some super-world spell? Possibly requiring his death to trigger? Or the Infernal Grimoire... (the true name of the book begins with an O... )

 

[scaramouche]

Hmmm... Shouldn't the certain... Wizard... Have some super-world spell? Possibly requiring his death to trigger? Or the Infernal Grimoire... (the true name of the book begins with an O... )

Oh, man, now I want Fruit of Yggdrasil + Trade + Pass through the Ether to give you Luggage! (For Discworld fans)

 

[Wyrmhero]

A new Amurite only set of heroes/wonder? It would certainly make them more unique...

 

[Demus]

not per se amurite only. I like the luggage (not sure about the fruits though). A 0/20 str. cargo capacity of a gazillion with 2 movement sounds awesome .

 

[scaramouche]

not per se amurite only. I like the luggage (not sure about the fruits though). A 0/20 str. cargo capacity of a gazillion with 2 movement sounds awesome .

I picked fruits only because Luggage is, I think, made from pear wood? I can't remember - it's been so long.

 

[Mewtarthio]

Sapient pearwood. This makes him Magic Immune as well.

Unfortunately, he'd be ridiculously overpowered.

 

[Wyrmhero]

Maybe it could have to follow the wizard around... And attack all units near him... The wizard could even just move randomly, because you can't control that guy