I thought the Fire Ship would be most appropriate for any Yuan naval unit to have as an extra ability when they're low on health. They'd basically function as a missile that could be used against nearby naval units and cities. I imagine that'd be tedious to code, though.
This sounds like an excellent idea IMO. I think it's possible to code, not sure. It could still be classified as a ''unique unit'' that ''appears'' when a naval unit is low on health. Basically, check if the naval unit is low on health, then replace it with the fire ship, while it's still counted as the same unit. I've a land unit that turns into a Privateer when embarked, so it should be possible..
Then you'd have to work that in to the UA surely, because a promotion wouldn't really count as a whole unique unit. So you'd end up with a ridiculously cluttered UA and one too few uniques. Doesn't sound optimal to me. I'd rather the UA still be a naval UA, say a Junk, which is slightly weaker than the trireme or galleass it replaces but does huge damage to adjacent targets when it is killed. That way you maintain the ability to use a naval unit to capture cities before the renaissance era, but also keep the whole fire ship angle in a cool and unique way.
Personally, I am pretty much sold on the idea for the Fire Ship, I would just move it to replace the Galleass and be available at a slightly earlier tech.
Or have it replace the Great Admiral so it would finally be useful . . . and maybe give a free one at certain "naval" techs (some combination of Compass, Optics, Navigation, Astronomy, etc.).
Personally, I am pretty much sold on the idea for the Fire Ship, I would just move it to replace the Galleass and be available at a slightly earlier tech.
I'm fairly sold at the idea, I just think there should be a way to use the Fire Ship against cities. Whether you use triremes to attack cities or not, removing player choice is never a great thing in my opinion. Especially when the choice you're removing is a method of attacking cities, and the entire civ is based around attacking cities.
I don't like the idea of a unit which doesn't replace anything, personally, so I think the current design is better than that. Equally the fire ship doesn't sound anywhere near strong enough to be a Great General replacement - I think it should stick close to the original trireme/galleass replacement but have some form of regular attack or a way to attack cities. If it replaces the Galleas then it definitely needs a way to attack cities, since giving up a ranged unit at that point in the game, if you're going conquest, is a huge malus - not a buff.
To be fair, it's not like it would be the first civ to not be able to conduct an all-naval attack. In fact in the base game, the byzantines have no melee ship due to the Dromon replaceing the trireme.
Well thats different in that first off, the Dromon is arguably even more useful in conducting a naval attack given a ranged assault with troops on teh ground is a good combination - as opposed to the proposed fire ship which would mean naval support for a ground invasion would be impossible. Furthermore, the Byzantines are not a conquest civ by any means, whereas to restrict any avenue of conquest to a civ entirely devoted to it, like the Yuan, seems wrong.
Well, my suggestion is it to make the Fire Ship act like a normal Trierime during combat with cities, the actual effect should only activate if in combat with a unit, naval or embarked.
I really don't think the Fire Ship should have a city attack. Everyone just seems to want to have their cake and eat it to.
It's a unique function unit, you can essentially negate any one of their units at the cost of one of yours. This is amazing. Everyone arguing for the city attack is also overlooking the most important part of this unit; "Obsolete at Steam Power". That means, up until the pre Industrial Era you the the option to negate any opposing naval ship at a significantly cheaper production cost at mid game. Unless "until the Renaissance" is not inclusive (but then why obsolete at the late Industrial), in which case I think that should be changed not its city attack.
This is the whole point of the unit. It does not need a city attack. Not being able to attack cities with naval units early game is a very small price to pay for such a great advantage.
Not every unit needs to be exactly the same. The Huns can't train an anti-mounted unit early game; I still wouldn't trade the battering ram or argue that it should get +50% vs mounted.
Note I'm not saying that its by any means underpowered. It isn't. I'm just noting that it seems a bit odd for the overall design to deliberately make the UU be useless against cities, given the overall design isn't based at all on naval warfare, but city conquest.
I disagree. I don't see why every part of a civ has to have synergy. Synergy is good, but I don't see why it's sometimes seen as the only thing that should matter in a civ. And it's not like city capturing exactly is something that needs a unique unit to help it.
Yeah, I honestly feel as if civs have too much synergy a lot of the time - yes, there should be a coherent playstyle, but if it's going to be fun to play without it, then leave it.
Again, disabling the triremes city attack isn't just 'not help' its an active dissuasion; it makes it more difficult to capture cities. I agree that synergy doesn't need to be present in every aspect of the design and I'm not asking for a city capturing buff, I just think having a UU which actually works against the UA is bad design. Synergy or not.
The UU is a Trierime replacement. If it attacks or get attacked by a naval unit or an embarked you unit both units will die unless the other unit is from the renaissance era or above, or if it was a ranged attack.
If the UU attacks a city it will act like a normal Trierime. Is that good?
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