Lightbulbing with GMs in addition to GSs

[futurehermit]

I've been thinking a lot about this lately.

This applies mainly to emperor and below since the AI does not tech as fast as on immortal/deity.

I've watched some immortal/deity lightbulbing with GSs and it is quite effective because can go up liberalism path and trade for other stuff, including a lot of money (key, see below). However, the AI is just not quite competent (imo) enough for this to work as effectively on emperor.

So, I've considered something else. What about after a GS for phil (for pacificism/taoism) and having beelined CoL (courthouses/caste system) you start farming GMs for awhile. This could especially go hand-in-hand with extensive warmongering and running research at 0% for awhile at least.

GMs early on lightbulb some fairly expensive (for it's time) techs that are very important and highly tradeable.

First is currency. This is very expensive to self-research at that point in the game and very, very helpful when warmongering to keep yourself afloat (extra trade route, whip markets, build wealth).

Then metal casting. Most expensive classical tech and can trade it for a lot.

Then monarchy, if you haven't traded it from the AI yet.

Then go back to GSs and do compass, machinery, and trade for calendar.

Then GM for CS (gives bureaucracy and maces).

Then paper, ed, liberalism with GSs.

Take printing press with liberalism, trade for engineering, self-research gunpowder, then next GS or two on chemistry for grenadiers.

All the while you can be warring and running 0% research pretty much. Obviously it works best with a phil leader and running FE/SE except in capital (for beaucracy).

I came up with this after encountering some problems:

1) Struggling to self-research the pricy CS

2) Struggling to trade for or self-research machinery for maces

3) Struggling to keep my empire afloat when warring

4) Struggling to get some of the important classical era techs (metcast, currency being the big ones)

Please let me know what you think

 

[Dirk1302]

Yes it's a good idea especially for maintainance and upgrading.Also arriving fast at optics can be strong. I think you'll lose liberalism sometimes though, especially on Immortal+. Then again it would be refreshing to play a game without beeline to lib. Liberalism is great but makes your game somewhat inflexible at times.

 

[Immaculate]

What i do lots in solo games (especially with philo leaders):

1. grab oracle (usually second, high food, some forests city)
2. use it to grab code-of-laws
3. assume caste-system
4. run 3-4 merchants (or whatever is possible- often in oracle city while capital does other things)
5. research: pottery and bronze-working
6. pop great merchant and use it for light-bulbing metal casting
7. switch from merchants to scientists
8. research math and meditation (or trade for them)
9. use scientist to light-bulb philosophy.

Usually grab metal casting in the last millinea BC (obviously it would be longer with a non-philo leader) and philosophy around 0-100AD.

This has become a pretty standard opening for me lately to be honest. Once though i got a priest instead of a merchant and that was less fun... obviously you could avoid that by running your merchants in a city other then the oracle city.

Some people focus on getting scientists out early for academies, but i like to run specialist economies until about 400AD then start switching to a hybrid or cottage with some Great person Factory-type economy... so academies don't help me as much as light-bulbing does.

With a philosophical leader, this is a strong opening that provides you with three expensive techs in a short amount of time and really only requires one dedicated city.

 

[futurehermit]

Yes that seems like a strong opening!

 

[lilnev]

That looks like a strong plan, Immaculate. Do you usually self-research Alphabet, or count on the AIs to get it soon enough that you can trade for it? And does Lit for the GL fit into your scheme?

peace,
lilnev

 

[lilnev]

@futurehermit: The a priori objection to farming GMs is that you only get 2/3s as many beakers for each lightbulb. If you're 'bulbing something specific early in the game, maybe you don't care (MC, Machinery). I generally have at most one GP before the Philo GS (but I don't routinely play Philosophical leaders, nor stress early GP generation). For CS, maybe it's worth it. I can generally trade Philo for Machinery and Feudalism, and sometimes for CS (often after partially researching it to cheapen it).

peace,
lilnev

 

[Immaculate]

That looks like a strong plan, Immaculate. Do you usually self-research Alphabet, or count on the AIs to get it soon enough that you can trade for it? And does Lit for the GL fit into your scheme?

peace,
lilnev

I almost always self-research alphabet (often before math). Of course, there's always differences based on what opponents, map conditions, etc.

In answer to the great library, i don't really have a regular plan, but i can share my most recent game.

I played a game (snakey continents archipelego, low water, monarch) as Elizabeth last time i played and i started like this:

• Capital was food rich (3 floodplains, one fish, one clam) and had a couple forested hills.
• Build fishing boat, worker, settler
• Research towards oracle with a stop-over for bronze working and agriculture.
• Build a city (inland).
• Second city starts the oracle. Chop to assist in completion.
• Capital builds a second settler.
• Third city (early production- later to specialize into commerce) builds the great lighthouse.
• Capital builds a small army (4-5 axemen) for defense and starts the ToA.
• Finish oracle (with some chops), choose code-of-laws for free tech.
• Switch to caste-system.
• Second city (built the oracle) runs 3 merchants (sometimes four as i balance the food/GP generation at happy cap of 5).
• Workers chop the great lighthouse in third city. As soon as they are done they started putting cottages up around the third city to help it specialize towards commerce (this was the Confucian holy city)
• Workers chop the ToA in capital.
• Capital builds a library.
• Capital starts the great library.
• Merchant shows up. Lightbulb metal-working. Switch to scientists in second city.
• Capital completes great library and starts national epic.
• Scientist shows up and light-bulbs philosophy. Second city goes from being GPP oriented to production for a bit to get settlers out.
• Capital completes national epic and goes from wonder production to GPP generation (floodplains and sea-food based)

Now, i must admit i was lucky and had marble and lots of trees, so obviously these circumstances are not that common and this start won't be usable in every game, but in this game it worked out.
I had two specialists cities: the second city (with the oracle) for early GP generation and the capital which was running two free scientists and a free priest (and after it was done the national epic ran more specialists) for primary great person generation. I also had a commerce city which was usable to leverage the financial trait.

Anyway, thats how the great library fit into that plan that particular time (since you asked).

 

[futurehermit]

Sweet stuff ToA + GL Nice!

 

[Giaur]

I used to lightbulb Theology and recently Philosophy. The earlier it's worthful to lightbulb. At the modern era best use for GP's are golden ages.

 

[TyranusBonehead]

I will usually determine if I want to lightbulb a tech or convert the engineer to a city specialist so I can get the extra hammers. It usually depends on how the game is going and how far ahead or behind I am in tech research, or whether I'm trying to boost productivity for a possible SS victory.

Interesting idea, holding the GPs back for golden eras in the modern era. I will think about this some more and may give it a try. Right now I'm trying to solidify my hold on the Noble difficulty level.