Wubba360
Emperor
I agree, but also animal domestication has gone very far with a variety of cavalry, ramids similar to war elephants and assorted horsemen and other creatures,
LINESII- Into the Darkness- Part II
- Thread starter Lord_Iggy
- Start date
Silver Steak said:
Indeed. Wise words.
Yes, population and development aren't the same. But then again, this world is slightly less hospitable for human settlement than our earth.
In some areas we are in the high Roman Era, and others we are still Classical. This NES won't advance just like earth did.
Turner, is a discussion of our technological progress considered 'spam'?
In some areas we are in the high Roman Era, and others we are still Classical. This NES won't advance just like earth did.
Turner, is a discussion of our technological progress considered 'spam'?
Lord_Iggy said:
Obviously I'm not as into NESing as just about every other poster in this forum. Thanks to a couple of individuals I've been able to slowly change what I see as spam in this forum. A year ago, yeah, it would have been spam. But now I'm of the mindset, that in the NES Forum, most things that are related to the NES is not spam. About the only thing right now that I see as spam is the constant whining y'all do about when the update is coming. It'll get here when it gets here.
So, in answer to your question, discussion of technological progress is currently not considered spam.
The CFC Staff does reserve the right to change our viewpoint on that at any time, with or without warning....
North King
blech
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2004
- Messages
- 18,165
Thlayli, troop numbers have always been skewed in a NES. The Assyrians, near 700 BCE, could muster over 50k in a single field army. We simply don't do that in fresh starts.
Swissempire
Poet Jester
Not entirely. When the Swade took back the Necropolis we had a concript army of upwards of 20,000+ I think. But thats my culture *shrugs*
North King
blech
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2004
- Messages
- 18,165
Exactly; ridiculously small by real world standards, for a nation in levee en masse.
Well, my levee en masse rules (you can conscript 1/5-1/4 of your population in a serious situation, but you'd better do darn well or suffer an economic hit and confidence hit.
And the recruits are much worse than normal troops.
And the recruits are much worse than normal troops.
alex994
Hail Divine Emperor!
Lord_Iggy said:
Which areas would you say are in the high Roman Era and which areas are still in the classical?
We could conscript 1/4-1/5 of our population???
Why didn't I do that 
Swissempire
Poet Jester
Iggy, as a question, how many troops were at the Battle of the Necropolis. I estimated in my order 50k to 70k, but i got the feeling you made it lessss...
foolish icarus
Shipwreck
Given that yes, history here develops differently, it's still good to put some figures out here for a bit of perspective (many of you undoubtedly already know these...)
rough populations around the 1st century AD
World ~Perhaps 300 million
Roman Empire ~55 million
Han Empire ~also 50 or 60 million
Are the "populations" given in the stats the entire sum of people living within a country, or only citizens?
rough populations around the 1st century AD
World ~Perhaps 300 million
Roman Empire ~55 million
Han Empire ~also 50 or 60 million
Are the "populations" given in the stats the entire sum of people living within a country, or only citizens?
See? This is a great example. Start out comparing history to a NES, and suddenly it devolves to spam....
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
I really need to save these things in Word...
Crossroads of Destiny
"A Republic is a strange form of government. Under a despotism, things can be done quickly and efficiently. But when that king, emperor, or tyrant dies, it is inevitable that one day someone less capable or intelligent will replace him. Chaos dictates that it shall, and when it does such a state will fall to pieces. When one hundred men rule, less good gets done, but less evil as well. And the leaders are beholden to follow the people's will, in theory. But waging a war in such a manner would be impossible. The earliest Elders knew this. Hence, the creation of the Stratikrator..."
-Caelianus Trentalian, Thoughts on Tellus, 987
Epilogue:
Oceanus Conaivium took it all in. His broad chest rose as he inhaled the fresh salt air of the high sea. He had been made for this, just as his father was under Gregorian. For all he knew, there had been a Conaivium serving in the Fleet since the dawn of days. And he loved it, with every ounce of his being. Though he might never admit it, Conaivium loved his ship more than his wife, his children, and even New Veritas itself. The sun was dying gloriously today, and the pieces were falling into place. It was beautiful, a grand, watery game of Strategy...and he had read the enemy's moves. The deck of his Pentareme flagship, Silver Victory, heaved slowly, at anchor in the center of the assembled ships.
A subordinate approached him. "My lord, the northwestern squadron has returned. S.N. Ialanis reports that Vandrios and his men have reached their destination."
Conaivium chuckled. It was a deep, throaty laugh, and even the lips of the jumpy aide twitched upwards. "Excellent. The Hammer of Wrath is in place. Now, the defense is up to us."
"My lord, how is it to be done with forty five ships? I do not question your judgement, but the rumors tell us that Khemri has raised a vast fleet, and..."
"I will tell you."
Conaivium stared into the dying embers of Tellus' star.
"Forty five ships, indeed. Khemri has the power to build a hundred, and their puppets, traitor Valins and barbaric Bladeists, will contribute more. But we are prepared. Our Pentaremes are unrivaled. And we know where they must attack us."
"But even so, forty five..."
"Perhaps not. Look to the east."
And as the aide looked away from the sun, towards the darkness left in its wake, he saw. Trireme after Trireme after Trireme. Warhorns blared their deep, urgent call, and others returned from the New Veritasan fleet.
"You see, my friend, forty five ships would never hold Khemri. But were the League of Valins to combine even a portion of her navies, well...one hundred and five would be more of a challenge."
And then they both laughed, as Valin met Valin. Now when Khemri came, they would not be fighting simply a nation. They would be fighting a belief, an ideal, and a race. If they died in the battle to come, none would question their valor, or their glory.
"Do not fail me, my men," Conaivium thought. And he thought of the ships. Of Phoenix, Quintalis, Exodus, Crimson Scimitar, Justice, and countless others. The ocean would embrace many of them for the last time, soon. But it would take more of the enemy's.
---
Jiang smiled. It wasn't a smile of mirth or surprise; he hadn't had one of those in years. It was a grim smile, ironic, cynical, and sad. It was a smile that thought of a better future which neither he, nor his children, would ever see. Because his children were dead, and he would be quite soon as well. The spy held no illusions as to that.
Vandrios held none of the idealism that Gregorian had, he realized. Or Vandrios managed to put his aside until it was needed. The former Stratikrator would never have ordered spies into Guanzhong, to...well, to do what they had been instructed to accomplish. It was a much more elegant solution than killing the emperor, if anything that brutal could be considered elegant. And the Dragon Throne was only the figurehead of a vast system of oppression. Thousands of peasants lived and died to scrape a meager existance from the land, serving the golden lords who lived richly on the profit from their serfs, slaves in all but name. The aristocracy ruled over their "people" with a gauntleted fist...and the worst part of it was, the citizens of Guangfei loved the chains which bound them.
Jiang had escaped their system, but only at the expense of all he loved. Others had seen the light as well, but were crushed, or seduced back into the system, by that perverted, self-serving corruption of the Church of the One that they had invented. He remembered the interrogation of one of their government officials, turned over to the Veritasans by Trinlin after the capture of the city of Shangei. Under threat of more physical "persuasion," the man admitted that the "Oneists" that had assassinated Yong Zhi were in fact broken men, driven to the act by Guangfei's agents. That official suffered for his crimes.
It would be vengeance, and rightful retribution. Thousands might die, but if that ensured a better future for the people, the true people of Guangfei, then he would sacrifice his life for such a cause.
The river was so crowded with refugee ships, Jiang observed. These waterways really were the lifeline of Guangfei. But they were all just loyal citizens, fleeing north from the ravages of war. Fleeing to the protection of the Divine Emperor.
That same grim smile etched itself across his face. Now it's up to you, Vandrios.
---
The general from Guangfei faced his Trinlinese counterpart across the table. Between them lay the treaty of peace, only awaiting the signatures of both men. It was good that one part of this war had ended, Guangfei's general thought to himself. In truth, he was sick of it all. Sick of the Alatian raids, the Veritasan armies, and the Trinlinese invasion that had ravaged so much of his nation.
Soon, this would all be over. Perhaps he would see the burning of Redemption in his lifetime, he reflected. Wouldn't that be a sight to see.
He looked inquisitively at his counterpart from Trinlin. "Now, have your commanders already sent the orders to withdraw, and to all your armies?"
The general from Trinlin was a large man, and larger in his armor. Tugging on his long, black beard, he broke into a wide smile.
"Oh yes, our orders have been sent."
Guangfei signed, with a flourish. "To peace, then."
Trinlin signed with a rough caste mark. "To peace."
What a peace it would be.
Crossroads of Destiny
"A Republic is a strange form of government. Under a despotism, things can be done quickly and efficiently. But when that king, emperor, or tyrant dies, it is inevitable that one day someone less capable or intelligent will replace him. Chaos dictates that it shall, and when it does such a state will fall to pieces. When one hundred men rule, less good gets done, but less evil as well. And the leaders are beholden to follow the people's will, in theory. But waging a war in such a manner would be impossible. The earliest Elders knew this. Hence, the creation of the Stratikrator..."
-Caelianus Trentalian, Thoughts on Tellus, 987
Epilogue:
Oceanus Conaivium took it all in. His broad chest rose as he inhaled the fresh salt air of the high sea. He had been made for this, just as his father was under Gregorian. For all he knew, there had been a Conaivium serving in the Fleet since the dawn of days. And he loved it, with every ounce of his being. Though he might never admit it, Conaivium loved his ship more than his wife, his children, and even New Veritas itself. The sun was dying gloriously today, and the pieces were falling into place. It was beautiful, a grand, watery game of Strategy...and he had read the enemy's moves. The deck of his Pentareme flagship, Silver Victory, heaved slowly, at anchor in the center of the assembled ships.
A subordinate approached him. "My lord, the northwestern squadron has returned. S.N. Ialanis reports that Vandrios and his men have reached their destination."
Conaivium chuckled. It was a deep, throaty laugh, and even the lips of the jumpy aide twitched upwards. "Excellent. The Hammer of Wrath is in place. Now, the defense is up to us."
"My lord, how is it to be done with forty five ships? I do not question your judgement, but the rumors tell us that Khemri has raised a vast fleet, and..."
"I will tell you."
Conaivium stared into the dying embers of Tellus' star.
"Forty five ships, indeed. Khemri has the power to build a hundred, and their puppets, traitor Valins and barbaric Bladeists, will contribute more. But we are prepared. Our Pentaremes are unrivaled. And we know where they must attack us."
"But even so, forty five..."
"Perhaps not. Look to the east."
And as the aide looked away from the sun, towards the darkness left in its wake, he saw. Trireme after Trireme after Trireme. Warhorns blared their deep, urgent call, and others returned from the New Veritasan fleet.
"You see, my friend, forty five ships would never hold Khemri. But were the League of Valins to combine even a portion of her navies, well...one hundred and five would be more of a challenge."
And then they both laughed, as Valin met Valin. Now when Khemri came, they would not be fighting simply a nation. They would be fighting a belief, an ideal, and a race. If they died in the battle to come, none would question their valor, or their glory.
"Do not fail me, my men," Conaivium thought. And he thought of the ships. Of Phoenix, Quintalis, Exodus, Crimson Scimitar, Justice, and countless others. The ocean would embrace many of them for the last time, soon. But it would take more of the enemy's.
---
Jiang smiled. It wasn't a smile of mirth or surprise; he hadn't had one of those in years. It was a grim smile, ironic, cynical, and sad. It was a smile that thought of a better future which neither he, nor his children, would ever see. Because his children were dead, and he would be quite soon as well. The spy held no illusions as to that.
Vandrios held none of the idealism that Gregorian had, he realized. Or Vandrios managed to put his aside until it was needed. The former Stratikrator would never have ordered spies into Guanzhong, to...well, to do what they had been instructed to accomplish. It was a much more elegant solution than killing the emperor, if anything that brutal could be considered elegant. And the Dragon Throne was only the figurehead of a vast system of oppression. Thousands of peasants lived and died to scrape a meager existance from the land, serving the golden lords who lived richly on the profit from their serfs, slaves in all but name. The aristocracy ruled over their "people" with a gauntleted fist...and the worst part of it was, the citizens of Guangfei loved the chains which bound them.
Jiang had escaped their system, but only at the expense of all he loved. Others had seen the light as well, but were crushed, or seduced back into the system, by that perverted, self-serving corruption of the Church of the One that they had invented. He remembered the interrogation of one of their government officials, turned over to the Veritasans by Trinlin after the capture of the city of Shangei. Under threat of more physical "persuasion," the man admitted that the "Oneists" that had assassinated Yong Zhi were in fact broken men, driven to the act by Guangfei's agents. That official suffered for his crimes.
It would be vengeance, and rightful retribution. Thousands might die, but if that ensured a better future for the people, the true people of Guangfei, then he would sacrifice his life for such a cause.
The river was so crowded with refugee ships, Jiang observed. These waterways really were the lifeline of Guangfei. But they were all just loyal citizens, fleeing north from the ravages of war. Fleeing to the protection of the Divine Emperor.
That same grim smile etched itself across his face. Now it's up to you, Vandrios.
---
The general from Guangfei faced his Trinlinese counterpart across the table. Between them lay the treaty of peace, only awaiting the signatures of both men. It was good that one part of this war had ended, Guangfei's general thought to himself. In truth, he was sick of it all. Sick of the Alatian raids, the Veritasan armies, and the Trinlinese invasion that had ravaged so much of his nation.
Soon, this would all be over. Perhaps he would see the burning of Redemption in his lifetime, he reflected. Wouldn't that be a sight to see.
He looked inquisitively at his counterpart from Trinlin. "Now, have your commanders already sent the orders to withdraw, and to all your armies?"
The general from Trinlin was a large man, and larger in his armor. Tugging on his long, black beard, he broke into a wide smile.
"Oh yes, our orders have been sent."
Guangfei signed, with a flourish. "To peace, then."
Trinlin signed with a rough caste mark. "To peace."
What a peace it would be.
alex994
Hail Divine Emperor!
*raises eyebrows* That is very odd indeed you seem to have misinterpreted many things
EDIT: And Yong Zhi wasn't even the prime target
EDIT: And Yong Zhi wasn't even the prime target
Swissempire
Poet Jester
OOC: Story time. Little Kiddies sit around the fire now. And Thayli's quotes are cool, so i chose to emulate them.
On Man and Might
They say dying for the Blademaster is the Greatest Glory. Whomever said that was entirely wrong. Surviving and Winning for Him is far superior, for you may enjoy both the spiritual and temporal perks. -Reuo Henfaj, Member of the "300"
Reuo marched along side his lover, through unclaimed plains and nomadic paradise. His broadsword was strapped to his back, his Chatiney sheathed at his hip and his daggers on his thighs. His bronzed and glistening muscles pulsated from the journey. He looked ahead of him at the grand horde of Bigjaur riders in front of him. He had ridden one of the beasts before, long ago during his "training".
Reuo turned to his partner Whed and in the sort of intraspectivness shared only with a partner inquired of Whed, "How does the Blademaster make such majestic creatures?"
With an equally march tempered voice Whed replied, "Through His Grace and knowledge alone"
But that did not satisfy Reuo. "But Whed, how does he craft such grace and such muscle, such ferocity and obediance. Why does he create such a majestic creature and subordinate it to mear men?"
Whed was quick in reply, "For, as the Book of Creation tells us, ". He created Man by carving them out of the very rock of the earth with Life, and he shaped all of the worlds creatures with his other 5 blades. And those others he granted life too were subordinated and given as gifts to his people". Reuo, we were chosen by him."
Reuo, desperate to get off the seriousness of the subject, cast a quick glance to the Longbowmen lagging behind. With a chuckle he added, "Apparently, he chose us more."
The partners shared a laugh and kept up the march. They would reach Oneist Ozkir very soon indeed.
------------------------------------
Evern II was nervous, and pious as he was, he turned to the Blademaster for his answers. So he spoke with his Minsh, or Personal Preist. For as the Ascendant Master he was the closest thing to the Blademaster on Tellus, but that didn't mean he didn't still need Spiritual Advice.
Clad in a red robe with the hood over his head, the now 28 year old humbly approached the Minsh, who was surrounded by candles and clad in a Blue Robe. For Red was the color of the Left Blades of Death, Famine and War, and Blue the color of the Right Blades of Life, Prosperity and Peace.
Evern kowtowed to the Minsh and went to one knee. "Honorable Minsh, I come for you in need of guidance from the Holy Texts, in this our hour of need. I ask you help me and then together we pray."
Minsh Golgari lifted his head and revealed his face, shadows dancing across it like leaves in the wind. "As you desire. For as it is said in the Gospel of Prosperity "The Blademaster grant to those whom have earned there wishes, and he smiles upon those who voice their desires""
Evern responded, "Minsh, I ask you too guide me. For tommorow I enter war, for tommorow I bring death. Tommorow I am in the Red, so tonight i am clothed in my sin."
"Your sin is not such. Your sin is in your failure to lead. The Blademaster knows that we must make war, or why would he have created it. Your sin is your cowardice. You must go forth and slay the Oneists whom opress the Enlightened. For it is said in the Book of War, "For those whom question Me and opress thee must be stopped by Blade or other means. For a threat to thee is a threat to Me.""
"Minsh, I fear my ability, I doubt my ability, and I fear my for my life."
"And Majestic Master, that is your sin. For you musn't let your fear conquer your soul or you have lost. Your ability is granted by the Blademaster himself and augmented by the training of the Brightest of the Blessed."
Evern began to raise protest but the Minsh shushed him. "Now we pray young one."
And they sat surrounded by candles as the moonrays swept over them. The sat in silence and prayed in a symmetry of spirituality and color.
-------------------------------
"MEN, today we fight for our honor, and for the Blademaster. Today we fight the Oneists whom have opressed us for far too long! Today we cry out for blood and vengeance and let no mortal stop us."
Evern began his speech. He was riding the royal Bigjaur, and held his gleaming blade high.
"For we fight for our futures, for peace, for glory and for Bladism. For all those whom dare threaten Bladism have been crushed. At the Necropolis who defeated the heathen Nurmaferi?"
And the army gave a rousing "SWADE!"
"And whom defeated the Lengels for Hell, the Devils on Horseback?"
"SWADE"
"Whom did the Blademaster choose to grant enlightenment too?"
"SWADE"
"MEN, we must not fear death, for death is only the beginning. We must instead seek glory on the field of battle, we must seek blood for our Blades and Safety for our children. Now we begin the War, now we begin our REDEMPTION!!! THE OZKIR IS OURS AND VERITAS SHALL FALL. DEATH TO THE VALINS!"
And the Army echoed, "THE ONEISTS MUST DIE!"
And the whoosh of 3,000 arrows pierced the air. And another whoosh. And another.
The screams of the spearmen falling like chaff combated that noise.
"FOR GLORY AND BATTLE, FOR BLOOD AND BLADE!" Evern II cried and raised his sword and charged into the fray, 1000 Bigjaurs at his back. He would led by example, and taste the glories of battle.
On Man and Might
They say dying for the Blademaster is the Greatest Glory. Whomever said that was entirely wrong. Surviving and Winning for Him is far superior, for you may enjoy both the spiritual and temporal perks. -Reuo Henfaj, Member of the "300"
Reuo marched along side his lover, through unclaimed plains and nomadic paradise. His broadsword was strapped to his back, his Chatiney sheathed at his hip and his daggers on his thighs. His bronzed and glistening muscles pulsated from the journey. He looked ahead of him at the grand horde of Bigjaur riders in front of him. He had ridden one of the beasts before, long ago during his "training".
Reuo turned to his partner Whed and in the sort of intraspectivness shared only with a partner inquired of Whed, "How does the Blademaster make such majestic creatures?"
With an equally march tempered voice Whed replied, "Through His Grace and knowledge alone"
But that did not satisfy Reuo. "But Whed, how does he craft such grace and such muscle, such ferocity and obediance. Why does he create such a majestic creature and subordinate it to mear men?"
Whed was quick in reply, "For, as the Book of Creation tells us, ". He created Man by carving them out of the very rock of the earth with Life, and he shaped all of the worlds creatures with his other 5 blades. And those others he granted life too were subordinated and given as gifts to his people". Reuo, we were chosen by him."
Reuo, desperate to get off the seriousness of the subject, cast a quick glance to the Longbowmen lagging behind. With a chuckle he added, "Apparently, he chose us more."
The partners shared a laugh and kept up the march. They would reach Oneist Ozkir very soon indeed.
------------------------------------
Evern II was nervous, and pious as he was, he turned to the Blademaster for his answers. So he spoke with his Minsh, or Personal Preist. For as the Ascendant Master he was the closest thing to the Blademaster on Tellus, but that didn't mean he didn't still need Spiritual Advice.
Clad in a red robe with the hood over his head, the now 28 year old humbly approached the Minsh, who was surrounded by candles and clad in a Blue Robe. For Red was the color of the Left Blades of Death, Famine and War, and Blue the color of the Right Blades of Life, Prosperity and Peace.
Evern kowtowed to the Minsh and went to one knee. "Honorable Minsh, I come for you in need of guidance from the Holy Texts, in this our hour of need. I ask you help me and then together we pray."
Minsh Golgari lifted his head and revealed his face, shadows dancing across it like leaves in the wind. "As you desire. For as it is said in the Gospel of Prosperity "The Blademaster grant to those whom have earned there wishes, and he smiles upon those who voice their desires""
Evern responded, "Minsh, I ask you too guide me. For tommorow I enter war, for tommorow I bring death. Tommorow I am in the Red, so tonight i am clothed in my sin."
"Your sin is not such. Your sin is in your failure to lead. The Blademaster knows that we must make war, or why would he have created it. Your sin is your cowardice. You must go forth and slay the Oneists whom opress the Enlightened. For it is said in the Book of War, "For those whom question Me and opress thee must be stopped by Blade or other means. For a threat to thee is a threat to Me.""
"Minsh, I fear my ability, I doubt my ability, and I fear my for my life."
"And Majestic Master, that is your sin. For you musn't let your fear conquer your soul or you have lost. Your ability is granted by the Blademaster himself and augmented by the training of the Brightest of the Blessed."
Evern began to raise protest but the Minsh shushed him. "Now we pray young one."
And they sat surrounded by candles as the moonrays swept over them. The sat in silence and prayed in a symmetry of spirituality and color.
-------------------------------
"MEN, today we fight for our honor, and for the Blademaster. Today we fight the Oneists whom have opressed us for far too long! Today we cry out for blood and vengeance and let no mortal stop us."
Evern began his speech. He was riding the royal Bigjaur, and held his gleaming blade high.
"For we fight for our futures, for peace, for glory and for Bladism. For all those whom dare threaten Bladism have been crushed. At the Necropolis who defeated the heathen Nurmaferi?"
And the army gave a rousing "SWADE!"
"And whom defeated the Lengels for Hell, the Devils on Horseback?"
"SWADE"
"Whom did the Blademaster choose to grant enlightenment too?"
"SWADE"
"MEN, we must not fear death, for death is only the beginning. We must instead seek glory on the field of battle, we must seek blood for our Blades and Safety for our children. Now we begin the War, now we begin our REDEMPTION!!! THE OZKIR IS OURS AND VERITAS SHALL FALL. DEATH TO THE VALINS!"
And the Army echoed, "THE ONEISTS MUST DIE!"
And the whoosh of 3,000 arrows pierced the air. And another whoosh. And another.
The screams of the spearmen falling like chaff combated that noise.
"FOR GLORY AND BATTLE, FOR BLOOD AND BLADE!" Evern II cried and raised his sword and charged into the fray, 1000 Bigjaurs at his back. He would led by example, and taste the glories of battle.
~Darkening~
Weep, Mother.
OOC: You know swiss, you're almost enough to make me recement my alliance with thlayli (not that its been done yet;] ).
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
OOC: Not Trinlin.
From: New Veritas
To: UoA
An alliance between New Veritas and the Union of Ardan is welcomed. Our Davarian and Arcadian brothers have stood by us in the past. Allow us to recement our existing friendship by joining us in an agreement of trade and safe passage. If in the future you are interested in an agreement of mutual defense, we would be happy to consider that as well.
From: New Veritas
To: UoA
An alliance between New Veritas and the Union of Ardan is welcomed. Our Davarian and Arcadian brothers have stood by us in the past. Allow us to recement our existing friendship by joining us in an agreement of trade and safe passage. If in the future you are interested in an agreement of mutual defense, we would be happy to consider that as well.
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