Live Free or Die

[Winner]

We've all heard that famous quote: "Live free or die: death is not the worst of evils." Does this hold true with you? Are the worse evils than death? Further, is freedom that indispensable? You can take that literally, to mean that you would rather die in a shootout with the police than be taken into custody. You can also take that to mean that you would not be subjugated, pay a protection bribe, or accept your country's status as a protectorate or vassal.

Since, I'm already wandering and in comprihensible, I'll sipmly summarize: what does that quote mean to you?

Nothing, it's just a pile of strong words usually used by people who have never experienced anything but freedom.

 

[LesCanadiens]

That's an unfair assessment. Give our nation a truly dangerous threat that could enslave us and you'll see people fighting back in droves. Just wait until the ChiComs finally invade and you'll see what I mean.

You've been reading too many Ian Slater novels.

Nothing, it's just a pile of strong words usually used by people who have never experienced anything but freedom.

Spot on.

 

[angeleyes]

Freedom is a feeling, death is redemption.

 

[bhsup]

You've been reading too many Ian Slater novels.

As I have never even heard of Ian Slater, I regret to inform you that your claim is in error.

 

[sourboy]

Every man dies, not every man truely lives.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

"Live Free or Die" is mostly meaningless since few if any of the people who espouse it have ever had to put their lives on the line for freedom. It's easy to chant "Live Free or Die" ad nauseum when you're sitting at the computer in your air conditioned home with an SUV, a college degree, a 9-5 job, all 8,000 kilometres removed from anything even remotely threatening to your freedom.

But do you believe that the concept, in theory, is a valid one? I think we can all agree that most (or at least many) of those who say "live free or die" wouldn't really be willing to carry out such a belief to the most extreme degree, but I personally believe that it's at least a good ideal.

 

[IglooDame]

Here's Live Free or Die:

Here's another:

 

[MobBoss]

Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose.

 

[Irish Caesar]

Nothing, it's just a pile of strong words usually used by people who have never experienced anything but freedom.

Perhaps true in our age, but Johnny Stark was about as hardcore as it gets.

 

[LesCanadiens]

As I have never even heard of Ian Slater, I regret to inform you that your claim is in error.

Meant tongue firmly in cheek, my friend. I forgot that on CFC unless you add to your post, you are always going to be taken dead seriously.

But do you believe that the concept, in theory, is a valid one? I think we can all agree that most (or at least many) of those who say "live free or die" wouldn't really be willing to carry out such a belief to the most extreme degree, but I personally believe that it's at least a good ideal.

I don't believe it's such a black and white issue. You have to adequately define freedom, which is basically impossible and any attempt to do so will always be ideologically driven. Besides which, what would you say to someone who lives in a totally free country, but most of the people are mired in abject poverty? What about another who lives in an authoritarian country but has all the best social services (education, opportunity for employment, health care) and a very good material life? There is no one universal edict that applies, so it's silly to issue flat generalizations like "Live Free or Die."

 

[Chandrasekhar]

I don't believe it's such a black and white issue. You have to adequately define freedom, which is basically impossible and any attempt to do so will always be ideologically driven. Besides which, what would you say to someone who lives in a totally free country, but most of the people are mired in abject poverty? What about another who lives in an authoritarian country but has all the best social services (education, opportunity for employment, health care) and a very good material life? There is no one universal edict that applies, so it's silly to issue flat generalizations like "Live Free or Die."

Yeah, this is a point that often seems to be overlooked. The way I visualize it, pretty much everyone can say "I would trade X amount freedom for Y amount of security." It's impossible to quantify either of those variables meaningfully, but it's just a way of representing the balance between the two ideals.

By consenting to be governed, a person is trading some of their freedoms for some of their security - I could go off and live in the wilderness with a shotgun and some basic camping gear and bow to no law but my own, but by doing that I'd be giving up all those lovely benefits of civilization that I've grown accustomed to, and of course anyone who happened to be in that same wilderness could kill or rob me and no one would do anything about it. So, for one to believe that that giving up any liberty for any security is wrong, that person would have to be an anarchist of some sort.

In that view, "Live free or die" is just a way of saying that a small loss of freedom must bring about a large increase of security to be worthwhile. It's a matter of where people set the limits, not so much whether they acknowledge that limits exist.

In your example, I would say that poverty results in a lack of freedom, while wealth brings freedoms of its own. Even if all people are equal before the law, money lets you do stuff that you otherwise couldn't. Of course, it's my personal belief that a smaller degree of government regulation (thus, a greater degree of "freedom") tends to make people in general more wealthy anyway. But that's another discussion.

 

[Godwynn]

I'll die before I am enslaved.

 

[Evie]

Some measures of freedom are indispensable (I would not accept total enslavement, for example). But beyond that, not all freedom is equally indispensable ; not all being on your knee is equally bad.

 

[LucyDuke]

Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose.

Nothing, that's all that Bobby left me!

/me stumbles off wailing lordy lordy lordy

 

[Shylock]

Only if I can Die Hard.

With a vengeance?

It depends, though I am a libertarian I am not above working with the system in order to get what I want. I have my price too. It's probably even easier with a system full of morons than living completely free.

Though I have my limits... Unfortunately those who do resist will not have the luxury of popular support or an event to push large numbers over the edge. Government is actually doing something right by doing it nice and slow with plenty of prolefeed noise to cover their movement.

 

[Lotus49]

"Live Free or Die" is mostly meaningless since few if any of the people who espouse it have ever had to put their lives on the line for freedom. It's easy to chant "Live Free or Die" ad nauseum when you're sitting at the computer in your air conditioned home with an SUV, a college degree, a 9-5 job, all 8,000 kilometres removed from anything even remotely threatening to your freedom.

Complete BS.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

And of course, when I vote in my own poll, I naturally choose the wrong answer.

 

[Lotus49]

Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose.

Compare the life of a (forced) hard-laborer in an authoritative regime (say for example, a miner in the USSR) to that of his counterpart in a free, open society.

Then the phrase, "uhh, what...?" comes to mind, when you read Mobby's above post.

 

[Shylock]

Compare the life of a (forced) hard-laborer in an authoritative regime (say for example, a miner in the USSR) to that of his counterpart in a free, open society.

Then the phrase, "uhh, what...?" comes to mind, when you read Mobby's above post.

Strange... I thought of Janis Joplin

 

[LesCanadiens]

Complete BS.

I stand in awe of your fearsome debate skills. Truly, I have been humbled by your powerful rebuttal, good sir.