Ljosalfar vs. Amurites Cold War - will you advice me?

[mcwill123]

he could convert back, and rebuild Yvain (although naturally starting over with no xp).

Really? This doesnt seem right. So you could get an unlimited number of a given religious hero by abandoning the religion after it dies and then switching back and retraining him?

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

doesn't work if it dies, only if it abandons due to religion switch.

 

[Senethro]

Raiders is the key here. How well defended are his core cities? If they've only got one defender each then build some Mobility II Mounted units, Haste them on the turn before the war and hit his core cities. Bring about 3 for every defender and don't keep the city, raze them. If you can cause enough damage you might be able to win a long term war through more production and sabotaging any builder victories hes been working on.

 

[kokoboy]

Senethro, he's got from 1 to 3 defenders (firebows and arquebus, mostly) on most of his cities. I'm starting to build raiders to be able to follow your strategies in the future.

As we've talked about not breaking the pact of agression (mostly because if we agree that it should be broken, it's because we want to end the game, as we're the only human players in it), I know for sure that a war with Lord of Fire isn't inminent.

As such, I've taken the "gamble" Emptiness talked about earlier and have sent a bunch of troops to the New World and plan on sending more, to try to take the Hyborem cities. The reason is that if I attacked Auric Ulvin, they would be reinforced and I would be forced to fight on two fronts (because of the Hyborem's boost in units they would most likely declare war on me). If Lord of Fire decides to declare war on Auric Ulvin, it would be quite the same. So the Hyborem are a thorn on my side and I'm going to try to get rid of it.


The only drawback is that I've just recently completed the Blood of the Phoenix ritual and I don't like the idea that I will most likely "spend" the upgrade of Immortality most of my troops now have on a war against Hyborem. It would be much nicer to spend it in the war against Lord of Fire, but well.


A doubt I have in mind: I have some tiles in my old world domains that didn't have a forest in them before upgraded to villages and so on. Should I raze them and cast bloom on them, then build upgrades? Because forest are so useful to me, they provide defence bonus, happyness, etc. But on the other hand you lose the upgrades that may take a lot of turns to get to that point (villages, etc).

Also, is it normal that some tiles seem not to have a forest on them (just some trees scattered) but then you hover the cursor over them and it reads that it has an Ancestral Forest of them? Just wondering if it happens to you guys too.

 

[readercolin]

If you are playing as the elves, you can bloom over any tile without harming the improvements underneath. If you play as anyone else, this isn't the case.

As for the showing something else (say a farm), but saying that there is ancient forest on it, this is mostly due to a few small issues with how the game processes the image. There was a fix for this floating around somewhere, but I don't remember where it is. This is normal behavior however.

-Colin

 

[DaveGold]

Elven priests can cast blooms on towns, mines, mana nodes, whatever. This is different from the other priests in the same way that elven workers are different from other workers.

It is normal for ancient forest to be obscured by a village, farm, etc in the same space. I'm not sure how I'd any do better with the graphics so I'm not going to criticize .

 

[Emptiness]

Elven priests can cast blooms on towns, mines, mana nodes, whatever. This is different from the other priests in the same way that elven workers are different from other workers.

This could be misleading, so I just wanted to clarify: Priests of Leaves belonging to an Elven civ, regardless of race promotion, can cast Bloom in non-forest-type tiles (ie no Burnt Forest, New Forest, Forest, or Ancient Forest) which already have other improvements. Workers belonging to an Elven civ, regardless of race promotion, can build improvements in New Forest, Forest and Ancient Forest tiles without removing the forest-type feature. (If they try this in a Burnt Forest, however, I believe the Burnt Forest is removed and so the tile must be Bloomed to kick off the tree cycle in that tile.)

Elven Priests of Leaves and Elven Workers (Elven here meaning possessing the Elven race promotion) belonging to non-Elven civs cannot do these things.

 

[kokoboy]

Thanks for the info guys.

Also, I read on the log that Lord of Fire built the Nexus. I was building it and it's still got 5 turns to go, I'm confused because the log says that Lord of Fire already finished it and it's pictured in the Wonders section, but the game didn't told me to change the building in that city (which I would expect it to tell me, since it's a World Wonder and two of them cannot be build right?). Why is that=?

 

[Emptiness]

I think it takes a full turn before your city building a Wonder that someone else just completed will be forced out of it. If he just finished it, you'll be forced off it next turn. If he finished it more than one turn ago, then I have no idea what's going on.

 

[kokoboy]

Indeed it was as you say.

 

[kokoboy]

Hi, I'm resurrecting this as in 25 turns both Lord of Fire and me will call of the peace treaty and WAR begins.

I'm controlling most of the New World right now. Hyborem is willing to capitulate and turn vassall, and he even offers a city of his four cities in the deal.

If I recall it right, every unit of Lord of Fire I'll kill will resurrect as a Mercurian unit right? So, could I adopt Hyborem as a vasall, turn evil so he will get my dead units and use them against Lord of Fire and Basium? How do I turn evil, using death mana?


Also, some of my forests burnt, how can I regrow them? I tried casting bloom on them but can't, the spell icon won't get lit.


I've got a nice army myself, but I'm wishing I had promoted magic resistance on some of my units to be able to promote them to fire resistance for when the war starts, as he's got Govanion who teaches fire II (and I think fire III) to most of his units and he can unleash a fire holocaust on me. That would be another con to signing peace with Hyborem, if I keep the war going on I can get some more experience for my troops.

Built the Tower of Alteration to get some magic protection though.


Also: I've got a node which I dispelled and rebuilt as Chaos, to build the Necromancy Tower. I'm thinking of scrapping off that idea, and dispel it again, and rebuild it as either:

a) Fire node. I've got two fire nodes in an island near the Old World and this would be the third. I could then start pumping out adepts with fireballs to counter his.

b) Air node. Then I would build another raw node I've got in the newly conquered lands to Hyborem into another Air node and get 3 of them, and I could do the same but with adepts with maelstorm. This option has got the pro that both air nodes would be in the new world and the other one in my palace, so they would be not as exposed to raids by him, in case he tries to assault the big island south of the old world where both my fire nodes lie.

What would be a better spell to resist his eventual attack? He's got a lot of magician troops with fire promotions, thanks to that damned Govanion.

There's always c, of course: which would be build it into another sphere, build the other raw node and dispel one of the fire nodes to build it into the same sphere. Problem is, which one?

What do you guys think?

 

[Jarrema]

In order to become evil You must change Your religion... but You do not have to be evil for Your units going to Hyborem, they just must follow evil religion - so convert to Ashen Veil, Council of Essus or Octopus Overlords

 

[Onionsoilder]

In vanilla FFH(and most modmods) the only way to turn Evil is to adopt the Ashen Veil religion. This does not make your units evil however, and they will not reinforce Hyborem when they die. Even still, giving Hyborem manes on the new continent would not help you in the Old continent.

Honestly, you are in a very, very bad position. He has a larger military than you, and even if he didn't, Firebows > Ljosalfar Longbows. His dead units will directly reinforce his ally's armies; you're won't(and it's far too late to change that). The only way I can really see you having a chance is to use one of the following cheap tricks:

1) Last-Minute Victory; Seems very unlikely given what you said, but if you can win an Altar, Tower or Cultural victory before he kills you off, you win.

2) Council of Esus & Nox Noctis. Has this been founded yet? If not, and if you can get it, that will be a huge bonus, because you can split your stacks, making Chalid's Pillar of Fire less effective, and you don't have to worry about counterattack, as long as you can keep them away from your cities.

3) Domination. If you have Archmages with Mind III, you can take some of his units for your own army. Really works best with Nox Noctis, because he can't kill your Dominating mages. If you capture Chalid, delete him(don't let him abandon you) and them your friend can't rebuild him.

If Archeron is nearby, and you're playing a recent version of FFH, you can try to Dominate the Sons of the Inferno, giving you extra archmages.

 

[DaveGold]

I wouldn't recommend you to take on the Amurites using magic. They'll just be better than you and use their world spell to stop you casting (unless you're sure they've used it already). Raiders is your strength so use it. If you have 60 horsemen sitting on his border on the turn you declare war you can pillage out large areas of his territory in just one turn. That should earn you enough money to promote most of your key units too. You might have an opportunity to deny him mithril or gunpowder.

Make your forest a deathtrap for his units, especially any of your cities that he captures. Use druids to entangle his stacks so he has to stop or split them up. Be wary of standing and fighting. Make sure you dictate the engagements, make sure you kill his key units while keeping your own, and you'll have a chance. Don't lose faith in the strengths of your nation.

 

[Emptiness]

Forests that burn become Burnt Forests, which will eventually become New Forests, then Forests and finally Ancient Forests. You can't Bloom in a tile that already has a forest-type feature. You could chop down the Burnt Forest and then Bloom, which could be faster in some cases. If you also need to rebuild an improvement in the tile then you could save yourself some worker-turns by chopping, building, and then Blooming (so you won't suffer the work rate penalty of constructing in a forest). It's a question of efficiency vs micromanagement.

-------------

Even if Hyborem is your vassal, it won't help you much for your units to be going to him. He's not going to send any troops to another continent to help protect your cities or attack your enemies' cities.

Turning Evil, especially by adopting AV, is risky. The one advantage is access to Ritualists, but if the Amurites have not yet used their worldspell then your Ritualists would become worthless once war broke out. The disadvantage is that if Hell Terrain spreads to your lands, all your forests will disappear - essentially permanently. That would probably lose the game for you.

 

[Angrenost]

I'd take over the seas, send out small pillaging parties and make heavy use of the Raider trait and have a few solid stacks deep in home area with some damaging spellcasting support and build some assassins to help you easily kill the mages that aren't guarded by a unit with the Guardsman promotion or somesuch. Focus on finding and hitting weak cities with Commando units and navy and raze them until you have gained a definite advantage. Basium and your friend's offensive stacks might be tough to crack though, so use your world spell to help take one down it things look dire.

 

[Buckwild]

I agree with the above posts. Go complete guerrilla warfare. Jump into his territory and spread out your units and pillage all his improvements. If there is a city for the taking, grab it and destroy it unless you can hold it without committing a lot of your troops to it. The main objective is mess his economy up and force him to defend his lands. Let us know how it turns out!

 

[kokoboy]

Ok don't worry I will update.

re: the mana node thing, which one do you think I should build? Concentrate on fire mana, or go the other way, air mana to get maelstroms for new adepts?

Or maybe death mana and build the Tower of Necromancy?


OnionSoilder: Nox Noctis was built by Auric Ulvin, who's got some shadows lingering around. However, Lord of Fire has got Diex Diei and sees every unit in his territory.

I don't have any archmages with Mind III, in fact I only have one archmage with Fire III, quite some mages, and lots of adepts (but they don't upgrade fast enough!, that's one of the reasons to keep the war with Hyborem, although I can gather little experience from killing his troops as he's got very few.

 

[DaveGold]

Keep an eye on what your opponent is doing. If he's got Mind III mages you'll need loyalty on your troops. If he's got Death III mages and lots of death affinity you'll need the destroy undead spell. Assume that all his troops will be able to cast a variety of tier I spells. The Meta-magic II dispel will be very useful for you.

Since your opponent is telling you when he's going to attack you can get a variety of nodes, train up your mages, then switch them all back for a big affinity. There isn't much point building any units now unless they're going to be useful in twenty turns time, and that includes adepts.

 

[Onionsoilder]

OnionSoilder: Nox Noctis was built by Auric Ulvin, who's got some shadows lingering around. However, Lord of Fire has got Diex Diei and sees every unit in his territory.

I don't have any archmages with Mind III, in fact I only have one archmage with Fire III, quite some mages, and lots of adepts (but they don't upgrade fast enough!, that's one of the reasons to keep the war with Hyborem, although I can gather little experience from killing his troops as he's got very few.

Dies Dei is irrelevent... Nox Noctis hides all units in your lands, while Dies Dei reveals all units in his... It means you won't benefit from shadows since he can see them, but Dies Dei is really weak compared to Nox Noctis...

If you can quickly grab NN from Auric, I would suggest it. If it would tie up too much of your military, then forget it. It can be very powerful, but if Auric eats your army then it 's usefulness is severely diminished.

Without NN, then goign the Raiders route really is your best bet. It seems unlikely that you can kill him outright, but if you hold him off long enough you can do some significant damage.