LK130 - Ottomans, Monarchy, Balanced Map

Cosmichail · Apr 27, 2007

@Admiral

Yes I would like to play a set before I go OOP. So this is "got it" but won't be playing until later tonight. Will post and play tonight.

Cosmichail · Apr 27, 2007

Turn 1 2170 BC

Warrior kills the lion.

Turn 2

worker finishes mining copper
(the two warriors are scouting)

Turn 3

Worker starts a road for the copper

Turn 4-5-6

Mainly scouting
Worker go to connect capitol. Only need to road to the river.

Turn 7

Our attempts at connecting capitol is usurped by a barb archer.
We discover mysticism and start on masonry to hook up marble.

Turn 8

Worker finished at Edirne and start an axe before anything.
Send both workers to farm the corn for quick growth and allowing to work both copper and farm fairly soon.

Turn 9

Workers start farm on the corn. Settler finished and sent to horse city. (nice site btw)

Turn 10

Our warrior defends against barb warrior and wins. (out in the open not near a city yet but they are making me worry)

Turn 11

Ankara is founded on horse city.

Turn 12

Try again to hook up capitol to copper but again a barb archer gets in the way. I send a warrior to the forest in hopes he can distract the archer and if he attacks loose.

Turn 13

Our woodsman warrior defends against a barb archer and wins. (he gains promotion but is left to heal)

Turn 14

Our warrior does not hold up against the barb archer and looses. I have another warrior not too far away but prefer to do this with axes.

Turn 15 1750 BC

The barb archer is now in the fog area and is marked. I decided to start a road from copper 1 tile north and then one tile northwest to hook up capitol and avoid barb archer that has been pestering us there for a while. That will take a few turns, however in the meantime Edirne will grow in 2 turns and can work the copper speeding up the axe considerably. Even though we dont have a barracks we need axes now to deal with barb archers before they start heading for our cities. The faster we get the capitol hooked up the better. We have two workers at Edirne and a warrior not far for protection.

Istanbul was building a worker but I changed it to another warrior as I am not comfortable with warriors alone. Ankara has started a monument to get horses online. Istanbul has 2 warriors/1 warrior in the east healing in a forest/Ankara has 1 warrior and Edirne has 1 warrior with 1 approaching from the south. We could even whip that axe in Edirne to deal with that barb archer once it grows to two if there is enough hammers. I think with copper mine it will still take like 8 turns.

Masonry has 1 turn left on it and we have lots of mines that can be built in Istanbul. All we need now is priesthood. Of course if we want COL we will need to research writing too and need to time that just right should that be the direction we want to go. I think Luke said about going for monarchy which is good too if we have a happy problem. We should get at least 3-4 axes built to protect against the barbs.

There is a barb archer heading from the west towards Istanbul. A warrior has been placed on the pigs for protection but I dont know how well hell do against barb archer. We may need to whip an axe or two once capitol is hooked up.

I suppose I could have gone for archery but with having copper and axes around the corner I personally always bypass it until it can be traded. Normally I wouldn't have roaded the corn either but the barb archer was in the way and really didn't want to risk our few workers although as Mehmed we can build lots.

LKendter · Apr 27, 2007

Cosmichail said:
I suppose I could have gone for archery but with having copper and axes around the corner I personally always bypass it until it can be traded.

Do you mean get archery in trade? With WFYABTA I would never want that in trade.

I agree we need to push axes out the door ignoring barracks. We grabbed three nice cities, but left ourselves thin to pull it off.

Admiral Kutzov · Apr 27, 2007

Got it. will play tomorrow morning. Where are we going after masonry? the quick path to oracle or the slow path via poly? I'm inclined to start getting ready for an ax rush. Or shall I slam out city 4 via a chop? or all of the above :crazyeye:

? thinking we'll build axes in edirne and chop the oracle in the capitol. Will look before I play.

Cosmichail · Apr 27, 2007

Do you mean get archery in trade? With WFYABTA I would never want that in trade.

You're absolutely right but I just didn't want to waste beakers on it right now as we will have a few axes online soon. We are spread a bit thin but I think Istanbul popped its border so the horses are available now too. So that would give us chariots and axes. Don't really need the archers till later.

I think we could use a few more workers since we are expansive and use the chops from the mines for something good.

I will be OOP until May2nd.

LKendter · Apr 27, 2007

New Updates

I will try and make some comment tomorrow morning. I would like to get a chance to review things before Admiral Kutzov's turn.

Roster
LKendter
Lukep
Cosmichail (skip Apr 28 to May 2)
Admiral Kutzov (currently playing) And already got it.

GreyFox (on deck)

Remember 15 peace / 10 war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

Win target: Open, but I would like a domination win soon.

Small wonders
Heroic Epic -
Globe Theater -
Wall Street -
Oxford -
Forbidden Palace -
National Epic -
Iron Works -

GreyFox · Apr 28, 2007

LKendter said:
New Updates

I will try and make some comment tomorrow morning. I would like to get a chance to review things before Admiral Kutzov's turn.

Part of the reason why I'll appreciate reasonable amount of screenies ... sometimes players check the thread at work (most of time for me) and do not necessary have access to Civ to load up the save.

--

Admiral Kutzov · Apr 28, 2007

@GF, AFAIK, nothing's really changed since the last dot map. I'll put up a cultural borders screenie at some point.

I'd play this to the best of my idiocy, but I'm trying to avoid violating rule 7 :eek:

IIRC, Shaka is to the SE. Brennus the SW and Ghandhi to the NW.

There's several paths we can follow and I have no problem with any of them, I'm just pretty simple and would like a plan or consensus.

lukep · Apr 28, 2007

For me, an important point is if site #4 is still open or not ? there is also room W, but a bit further so more costly.

I'm fine with going any path with 4 cities at that point, but 3 is a bit light for going wonders happy, even with very good ones.

Connecting istambul to copper asap is vital, i agree too on axes without barrack

Cabledawg · Apr 28, 2007

Lurker

Where are we going after masonry? the quick path to oracle or the slow path via poly?

The slower path via poly is usually better as you need it for Lit if you decide later that you want the Great library. With Marble, it seems like a no brainer anyways. Those extra turns youre waiting for Priesthood will prolly be spent on axes, granary, barracks or any number of things you still need while starting out.

What i would do with Edirne is after 3 axes, a border pop, and maybe a granary, put that puppy on Pyramids or 2 axes, a border pop, stone online and roaded and a quick Great Wall followed by the Mids.....go to Police State and youll be a lil bit closer to Domination.

Admiral Kutzov · Apr 28, 2007

1720(1)
We learn how to shape stone and fit it togethor. One god is not enough, so start polytheism.
1690(2)
Barb archer is still being pesky. Put a road where I don't really want it to hook up copper.
1600(5)
Barb archer kills an exploring warrior. "Howdy, Ragnar. Nice helmet." Whip an ax.
1570(6)
Whip another ax
1540(7)
Our emissary to Ragnar defends against a barb archer and wins. He stops to heal.
1480(9)
Start a chop for a settler in Istanbul
1450(10)
Whip the monument in Edirne
1300(15)
I fail to notice an incoming barb warrior at Ankara and now we have to hope the city holds. :blush:

On the positive side, borders should pop this set.

City 4 is still open. Would make a nice rally point to go attack Shaka. The two circled warrior can go explore.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/11866/Lee_BC-1300.CivWarlordsSave

LKendter · Apr 28, 2007

I fail to notice an incoming barb warrior at Ankara and now we have to hope the city holds.

ARGGGGGGGGGG - This is exactly why I hate building towns with a single warrior.

In a case like this I would have preferred 16 turns so the team know where we stand.

LKendter · Apr 28, 2007

New Updates

:confused:

Not sure why the latest save says LEE vs. LK130. With the number of games I play I always reset the game to the game number. Did I forget to do this game?

We are playing way to fast with to little planning. I just woke up planning to offer comments just to find another turn done.

I am going to ask that all future chops by Istanbul be all of the forested hills that need to be mined. We have way to many hills that will be eventually mined.

I am asking that we halt expansion after the current settler until such time we have a much stronger military.
Shaka is a royal pain and city #4 is going to create rotten relations with him. In addition, we have just one exploring warrior out there. I would like to get some axes built, and then send some of our warrior out exploring. Losing a warrior while exploring doesn't matter, as we have no long-term use for warriors.

We also need some more workers. We have just 2 with 3 cities and a 4th on the way

Roster
LKendter (on deck)
Lukep
Cosmichail (skip Apr 28 to May 2)
Admiral Kutzov
GreyFox (currently playing)

Remember 15 peace / 10 war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

Win target: Open, but I would like a domination win soon.

Small wonders
Heroic Epic -
Globe Theater -
Wall Street -
Oxford -
Forbidden Palace -
National Epic -
Iron Works -

lukep · Apr 28, 2007

Anyhow, 4 cities are enough for now, especially if we have evil thoughts about Shaka.

One point i would like to open to discussion :

I noticed Admiral Kutzov whipped quite a lot (2 axes & monument). While those were good ones, i feel strongly that one of the hidden strengths of Memhed is his hability to run big cities early.

But that means that we would have to go very lightly on the whip, and with HR military police to handle the happiness. What do you think ?

We can handle production needs via chopping, the only city a bit light on hammers is future #4.

So my prefered path :

Oracle for monarchy, while building Shaka's razing force in Erdine.
That would also put Maths and HG as a goal.

Admiral Kutzov · Apr 28, 2007

In a case like this I would have preferred 16 turns so the team know where we stand.

I wasn't sure of the protocol, but after I posted the save I did play the turn. The warrior lived.

@all - just refer to me as AK

I played because my turns didn't lock us into anything. No wonders started, no major chopping. Those warriors I circled are going to find coast line to the east and southeast.

The only AI we need to locate are Isabella and Freddie.

My thinking is that city 4 is the rally point for the war on shaka. Maybe I'm overly aggressive, but i don't see another early target. One decision we'll need to make is whether or not to keep or raze uMgungun...

Strategic: take 1-3 cities from Shaka and seal off our SE border. Then we can backfill. I agree we should stop expanding after city 4. Ivory should be up soon. I also agree on the Oracle for monarchy as that gets the wine hooked up and HR. Borders will pop and we will have all the health we need. Just need to find some gold or furs.

Tactically, the warrior should hold in Ankara. If not there's an ax to go take it back. We should prolly roll out a chariot or 2 for homeland defense. The two circled warriors can go explore. Ankara's warrior can also soon release to go scout Gandhi. After 4 is down, Instanbul can build whatever workers we need.

But that means that we would have to go very lightly on the whip, and with HR military police to handle the happiness. What do you think ?

I agree, but that was the time to :whip: to push out the borders of Edirne for the food. Very lightly from here on out. I whipped the axes cause I felt naked.

I'll defer on math's and HG for now. I'd rather see the GL since we have the marble.

GreyFox · Apr 28, 2007

Got it, so my job is to somehow miraculously have our city survive the barb

, settle city #4 and build up some military.

Sounds easy enough. Expect a report before you head to bed (or right after you head to bed, but then you will be dreaming instead of reading ...)

GreyFox · Apr 28, 2007

First order of business is to set our name right

With the correct name set, start doing the RNGod tribute dance ... and prayed fervently :worship:

... ... oops, sorry, wrong SG

but the effect is the same:

We survived. I go on our business of connecting the marble, roading to the horse city, and building a chariot out of the horse city for it to earn its namesake.

Gandhi came for this trade, I wanted to agree to improve relations, but decided not to add one more thing for players to remember to cancel into this game ...

... because if you squint your eyes, you should be able to see the pigs beneath the partially transparent dialog. Well, you actually don't need to squint your eyes, I circled it for you :crazyeye:

Preisthood is in after our pasture protector saved the pigs from unspeakable things the barb is abt to do to them, and I am torn between IW and writing, and then figured that writing is more important (if we want TGL, plus writing is necessary path towards construction of huge animals with long nose ... these beasts must have told one lie too many).

In the other news, I officially ended our horizontal expansion phase with the forth city:

and instead started our vertical expansion phase with granaries builds. One more worker is added giving us a total of 1 worker per city. Our economy sucks at 50% percent, and this Machiavelli dude must rub it by stating the obvious:

I leave a decision for Lee to make: to attack or not to attack, that is the question.

The chariot has 77% odds against the forested axe.

As seen above, Istanbul is building the granary, once it grows, it will be able to work on the mine. So I suggest starting the oracle after granary.

Horse city (Ankara) is about to expand, so the worker up there who had just finished the cottage should be moved to the sheep.

>>> Save at 925BC <<<

Spoiler autolog :

lukep · Apr 29, 2007

nice consolidating turnset.

some remarks :
- uMunMu... is jewish holy city, so will accumulate quickly culture. But we cant raze it, or everybody will hate us.
- worse it's on hill, needs 3 axes per defender ?
- if we want Oracle we need to start very soon and chop quite a bit. A 800BC oracle is no way a sure thing on monarch (but still likely).
- attacking the axe on hill has probably better odds

LKendter · Apr 29, 2007

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/1898/LK130_BC-0700.CivWarlordsSave

925 BC
I try my luck and kill the barb axe with the chariot.

I decide we can try out luck with the Oracle. I can get it in just 17 turns and that is with growing just after the whip effects are done. I am sending some workers hope to chop and speed that up.
(IT) I sign open borders with Gandhi.

910 BC
(IT) Our warrior defeats a barb warrior.

880 BC
I whip the monument in Bursa. Had I realized we were close to a holy city, I don't know if I would have agreed with this site. We have the choice of fighting a very tough culture war, or declaring on one the AIs that is obsessed with military.
(IT) Our research rate is terrible. I start on iron working, as we should know the location of iron soon.

865 BC
(IT) I accept Ragnar's offer of open borders.

850 BC
(IT) I accept Shaka's offer of open borders.

835 BC
(IT) I even accept the religious whacko Izzy's offer for open borders.

820 BC
(IT) Health isn't an issue, so I passed on Gandhi's offer of pigs.

We complete the Oracle, and snag code of Laws. We enter the classical era. I guessed wrong, and Confucianism is founded in Edirne. I choose *not* to adopt a state religion. Until such time that we see how the world aligns, I really don't want a state religion. I will send the free missionary to Bursa. Every point of culture helps.

805 BC
(IT) With our economy so weak, I think it is worth 7 turns to get a courthouse in Edirne.

730 BC
(IT) Scratch a barb archer.

715 BC
A barb axe is toasted.

=======================

New Updates
After the court Edirne should go back on pure military mode. I would like some spears at some point, plus more axes.

We will want to squeeze courts in the other cities, as that alone should let us build another city.

Our cities will be ready to grow up a size shortly thanks to ivory coming on-line.

Ankara is building another worker, as we still have far to many tiles to develop.

After iron worker, we should head to monarchy to continue the city growth plan. After that math looks good for our great UB.

I am not sure how powerful Temple of Artemis is, but I have never built it before. We are already half way there after the Oracle, and there is another chop coming up.

Roster
LKendter
Lukep (currently playing)
Cosmichail (skip Apr 28 to May 2)
Admiral Kutzov (on deck)
GreyFox

Remember 15 peace / 10 war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

Win target: Open, but I would like a domination win soon.

Small wonders
Heroic Epic -
Globe Theater -
Wall Street -
Oxford -
Forbidden Palace -
National Epic -
Iron Works -

lukep · Apr 29, 2007

got it.

still need to look at the save, but i agree on the general plan.

One point though, peacefull growth, or war with Shaka ?

Probably wont matter before 30 or 50 turns, but still good to prepare

LK130 - Ottomans, Monarchy, Balanced Map

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