LK130 - Ottomans, Monarchy, Balanced Map

[GreyFox]

First order of business, revolted as agreed:



Also MM'ed capital to grow a bit while having the temple built with the same turns.

Meanwhile, I noticed this settler party ...



Hmm ... where are you going, zuluman?



Damned! There go my brand new chop-rushed settler!

To make things a little worse, the "future city site" is infested with a barb city nearby as well.



2 archers attacked the axe before he had a chance to wave his weapon. Our hero then limped back to our city border to recuperate. I also had the settler sleeping to await team discussion. The best course of action, I think, is to raze the Zulu city and re-settle blue dot.

We got alphabet, and I pondered a bit before choosing Literature. Yes, I realize we want construction, but we can get Maths from trading.



Our economy s getting better, I managed to raise science to 90% (EDIT: without)with +ve cashflow.

Here is the forces I can see ... IMHO, we can launch an attack if we want to. Yes, the +50% culture is a b!tch, but I don't know if we can afford to wait til construction (assuming we trade for maths, construction is still 15+ turns away).



>>> The Save (25BC) <<<

 

[LKendter]

Looks like Civ overload tonight. How is it I am only in 3 SGs, and 2 showup the same night?

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

Don't think we can wait for construction. Having said that, would really like to grab the GL.

 

[LKendter]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/1898/LK130_AD-0200.CivWarlordsSave


25 BC
I cancel the farm by Ankara. This city is already +4 food despite working the mine.
What is that stack of Shaka's in our territory up to? I don't need 3 swords and a chariot popping up behind our lines.

I can't recall the last game that was so lopsided for health vs. happy. Istanbul has +18 health in the BC time frame.

Brennus is crazy wanting 3 techs for math, so I pass on the tech. Our other possible trading partner is India, and he refuses to talk to us.


5 AD
(IT) Our next tech is mediation, so that we can build monasteries.


20 AD
I open borders with Frederick to let us keep exploring.
(IT) OTOH I won't give this guy code of laws for free.


35 AD
(IT) Our next tech is math to head toward construction. It doesn't look like we will get this in trade.


65 AD
My two worries with the Zulu appear to be getting solved. Our workers are away from his borders now, and that mystery stack is moving south.
(IT) The pyramids are finally completed.


125 AD
(IT) Math is completed. We can now build our UB. I start us on construction.

Gandhi completes the great library.


140 AD
I still am not sure if we have enough troops, but the war horns sound.
The Ottomans are pissed about losing their library. I snag two workers by the city, and will try to grab even more.





(IT) We need some monasteries, so I let Ankara build one.


155 AD
I snag another two workers by Konya.

The sword losses were high at 4 due to the hill and 50&#37; culture defense, but we capture kwaDukuza. That name is to long, so I simply rename it Kwa.


170 AD
(IT) We get another great prophet. Using him to research monotheism is crazy, so I am going to send him south planning on a Jewish shrine.


185 AD
(IT) Shaka finally attacks, just to have his horse archer die to our chariot.

Sometimes the game throws you for a loop. I really don't want to annoy Brennus, yet I don't know if we are ready to deal with an angry India.
After some debate I decide to adopt Confucianism. We had better keep building troops like crazy. We may go to war with the number one civ for score - India.


200 AD
I try to kill the sword by Kwa, but as typical lose 75% odds attacks. I put a third unit into the city, and send a "spare" axe from Konya to help.

=======================

New Updates
Is it worth putting the national epic in Istanbul? We have two wonders there, but lost the great library. Do we want to wait for a clear GP farm?


With knowing we will also have a Jewish shrine soon, we should be able to take a lot of cities from Shaka. Our economy can support the cities. The question

We want fishing and sailing soon to open up calendar. We have our own silks, and will be capturing sugar and dyes soon.

Our forces are starting to gather by Bursa, but it will be awhile before we can move forward again. I have three cities on swords right now. We are close to construction, and will hoping have a few catapults soon. It looks like I jumped the gun with Shaka, as I didn't guess how bad the losses for hill city would be.


Roster
LKendter
Lukep (currently playing)
Cosmichail (on deck)
Admiral Kutzov
GreyFox

Remember 15 peace / 10 war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

Win target: Open, but I would like a domination win soon.

Planned wars - Zulu war #1 is in progress.


Small wonders
Heroic Epic -
Globe Theater -
Wall Street -
Oxford -
Forbidden Palace -
National Epic -
Iron Works -

 

[GreyFox]

War!

The farm at Ankara is for 2 long-term reasons: (1) in prep of the eventual lost of corn to India (it's in its first tier, and the city now has 2 religions), and (2) in prep of CS for chain-irrigating the corn ... it will be ours in the long run, right?

Great job getting us the culture beast city ... the rest should be easier ... I hope

There should be a good GP-Farm location in the soon-to-be-ex-Zulu land. Putting the NE in the capitol is always sub-optimal, IMHO.

 

[lukep]

looked quickly at the save, will play later.

Seems we have competing playstyles here. i would have agree with greyfox here about the farm. Ankara has +3 happiness so should grow as fast as it can.

I would even add a couple farm in istambul. That those are later replaced by cottages is fine, but can do with the growth.

I disagree about NE in capitol.

LK going fast in war was ok i think.

i will try to do some pillaging waiting for cats.

 

[lukep]

one point : CS as next research ?

 

[GreyFox]

I disagree about NE in capitol.

You disagree with building NE in capitol, or you disagree with what some dude called greyfox said about NE in capitol being sub-optimal?

CS is good ... or metal casting (if we do not have it already ).

 

[lukep]

building NE in capital would be now a bad idea, methink.

When you have GL, the GS gpp are far bigger and you dont get much GAs.

Here, with Oracle and ToA, plus later probably some scientist, We would have more GAs than needed. Being not phi, we will have less GP and the merchants from ToA can be big boost.

 

[KMadCandy]

lurker's comment:

Ghandi seems to have quite a tech lead, and is man to hold a grudge if not aggressive. we should take care of not angrying him more than needed.

actually he holds a grudge for very few things. he'll stop talking to you for a few turns, but he's the only one whose attitude does not changeif you cancel trades with him, deny him help/civic changes/techs when he demands them, etc. he give you credit when you do give in, and he does hold grudges for things like spies and razing holy cities. he actually hates you more for declaring nuking and declaring war on his friends than on himself, he's an odd guy.

so, give in to every demand to cancel trades with gandhi, and deny him everything he asks for. even if he has riflemen on your doorstep. if he's going to attack you, it won't be because you told him no. he really is so utterly insecure that he expects to be told no and to be cancelled on. i feel guilty when i abuse him but i do it anyway.

@AK: techs gotten by pointy stick research, "can you spare this for a friend", and "perhaps this would be of use to you" gifts given when you're behind all count towards WFYABTA.

grats on Kwa! now back to silence.

edit @GreyFox below: if he has, i'll just hope he's not a man to hold grudges at my intrusion . he's sure acting like it's the normal shaka we know and hate tho.

 

[GreyFox]

Pretty insightful, KMadCandy, thanks! Now I just hope that Lee has not turned on "Random Personalities" ...

 

[lukep]

IBT :
just promote a shock axe in bursa, in case Shaka swordman has bad idea

215 AD
spear lose to sword attack in kwa
other spear and chariot kill sword & chariot
axe kill sword near bursa
assemble pillaging chariot-axe, waiting it to heal.

245 AD
go pillage

260 AD
Isabella Chime in. no thanks

istambul is at happy cap, hammam to be chopped next turn

275 AD
a horse archer destroy a farm killed by a spear.
spear of erdine lose at 80 % , sword avenge it
pillage shaka copper

290 AD
construction in -> CS
whip cat (yes i know i was the one advocating for light whiping)

305 AD
Brennus chime in. i refuse for now, but may be


335 AD
our pillage party die, HA are though. of my part, i was on open ground. we kill horse+ sword in our country
approaching uMgun now we have cats, we are protected by the river

350 AD
we park ourselves on the forested hill beside uMgun




Notes : we need some axes, i started a jumbo for the HAs.

We have eleven troops near uMgun, including 2 cats, that should allow it to fall and with the reinforcement, Ulundi too.

After that, i think we should make peace.

Frederick has some trades avaible we may want, including currency. he is already pleased.

I built farms in istambul. the northen one can be shared by ankara and will later allow chain irrigation. i built cottages too

HG are open in istambul but it is not quite the time i think.


Cosmichail will have the fun part

the save

 

[LKendter]

I built farms in Istanbul. The northern one can be shared by Ankara and will later allow chain irrigation. I built cottages too

Ankara is +4 food, and +6 food if we don't work the mine. Why are we building a farm for that city?
Farms IMHO are the worse tile to develop when a city has heavy food. +6 food is plenty in Ankara. That isn't a city hurting for growth. The city has 2 food bonuses. IMHO a city like that should never get a farm except under rare conditions. If you want it to grow faster, then stop using the mine.

What do we need chain irrigation for? Ankara is already on a river. What future city is this planned for?

 

[lukep]

Ankara is only +2 if you work hammer tiles forest + mines, (like when you passed me the save, and still now), and the farms are for Istambul which could no exploit mines and still grow (pigs are needed by konia). The northen farm can be used too by Ankara for growth, if needed.

Memhed strength lies in bigger cities early, and we sould leverage that to grow in a timely manner to size 12-14.
With Istambul ToA, we should also use Merchant specialist later, GM are yummy. All that need plenty of food (i mean, at least +4)

We will cottage those farms later, we already have more cottages than we can work at the present time. But now, we need both growth and hammers, and farms are the answer to that

 

[LKendter]

New Updates
Our cities #1 problem is happiness. We really need to get calendar. We can't even trade for it as we lack fishing. I think getting dyes, sugar, and silk on-line would be very valuable.
I personally would have hit this path before bureaucracy. Either way, can we please get calendar after CS. I hate leaving all those calendar resources worthless. If we complete CS, then let's start the chain irrigation in Edirne.

We can pick up currency and $170 from Brennus for code of laws and literature. I think we should make this trade.


I didn't realize how big the Zulu were. There is no way we will take them out in one pass. How far to we want to go this time. We can't keep all cities on military, or we will really start to fall behind in tech. We are down to 60&#37; positive trade, though getting the Jewish shrine should help a lot.


Roster
LKendter
Lukep
Cosmichail (currently playing)
Admiral Kutzov (on deck)
GreyFox

Remember 15 peace / 10 war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

Win target: Open, but I would like a domination win soon.

Planned wars - Zulu war #1 is in progress.


Small wonders
Heroic Epic -
Globe Theater -
Wall Street -
Oxford -
Forbidden Palace -
National Epic - We are still trying to figure out where our GP farm will be.
Iron Works -

 

[lukep]

We can get Currency, Fishing & mono + 20g from Frederick for the same Col+litt

Frederick, is the low dog, and has bad relations with only Shaka.

Problem of course is WFYBTA.

 

[LKendter]

We can get Currency, Fishing & mono + 20g from Frederick for the same Col+litt

Frederick, is the low dog, and has bad relations with only Shaka.

Problem of course is WFYBTA.

I saw the offer of fishing, but didn't even mention it because of WFYABTA. I hate to waste the limit on techs that take one or two turns.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

How far to we want to go this time.

Ulundi if we have a shot.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

Been more than 24 by my counting, so I picked it up and played. There didn't see to be a whole lot to further discuss.

350 AD (Preflight): Kwa is 0&#37; us. I feel free to whip the monestary and do so. In an effort to be sensitive, I note how they feel about us.


Gandhi is becoming a bigger problem. Ragnar has fuedalism.

365: Lose an ax to a HA. Ankara starts a monk. LK mentioned a lack of commerce. Look at Ankara again. Kwa finishes the monestary and starts a CH.

380: Bella wants us to cancel our deals with Brennus. I think not. Siege of uMgungun begins. Bella cancels open borders. Oh well, Cathy is cuter.

410: roading

425: The walls of uMgungun come tumblin' down. Shaka sends out a combat settler. He must want those badlands to the east really bad.

440: Battle of uMgungun. We start with 4 cats, 7 swords, and 2 axes. Shaka has a LB , 4 ponies, 2 swords and an Impi in a pear tree. 3 outta 4 of our cats die. One retreats. All seven swords win. Axes move in and take the city. Ivan (GG) is born. I put him to sleep pending discussion. I like medic 3 cats.

455: Shaka kills an ax. We kill Shaka's combat settler stack. Switch research to fishing cause WW starting to set in.

470: Fishing begets sailing. Start Hammam in Ankara.

485: Switch Edirne to Hammama.

500: Ragnar offers 190g + mono for lit. No, go kiss your own GF. Sailing -> back to CS (fiddled with the sliders a bit). Freddie takes the barb city of Kushans where ever the hell that is. Built Sol's temple. Brennus will give:

Stop for next (much) better player. We can rush Hammamas (and your mama too) in Ankara and Edirne for 3 pop each. I know we've discussed going lite on the whip, but the situation may call for it. There's a sleeping GG. I haven't really explored what Shaka will give for peace. Ulundi will be expensive if we keep the war going and we will need more spears.

Apologies if I was supposed to wait for LK to declare the skip but RL is going to intrude on my weekend.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/11866/LK130_AD-0500.CivWarlordsSave

 

[LKendter]

New Updates

Been more than 24 by my counting, so I picked it up and played. There didn't see to be a whole lot to further discuss.
Apologies if I was supposed to wait for LK to declare the skip but RL is going to intrude on my weekend.

No matter what you should have posted a got it BEFORE you started playing. Sometimes players, including myself, don't bother with a "got it" post if you expect to play within 24 hours.
Also, I consider the 24 hours based on my player roster post. You just barely give 24 hours to play.

Ivan (GG) is born. I put him to sleep pending discussion. I like medic 3 cats.

I would like to settle our first GG in Edrine. That city will be mainly military. Edrine should build zero beaker boasting buildings. With that city producing the bulk of our troops, building a lot of units with 2 promotions sounds really good. I really don't want a cat if we go with a medic 3 unit. I would prefer a fast unit such as a chariot that can quickly get to the next stack.

I haven't really explored what Shaka will give for peace. Ulundi will be expensive if we keep the war going and we will need more spears.

I can't even look at the game to comment on this until Sunday night when I have access to the Civ Warlord CD. There were some other points made in this point that I can't comment on until I can look at the game.


Roster
LKendter (on deck)
Lukep
Cosmichail (skipped - must reconfirm)
Admiral Kutzov
GreyFox (currently playing)

Remember 15 peace / 10 war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

Win target: Open, but I would like a domination win soon.

Planned wars - Zulu war #1 is in progress.


Small wonders
Heroic Epic -
Globe Theater -
Wall Street -
Oxford -
Forbidden Palace -
National Epic - We are still trying to figure out where our GP farm will be.
Iron Works -