LK146 - We love our roads

[timmy827]

Agree with LK's dictums and would go further, for this variant + mapscript the worker needs are probably more like 2 per city. Capital needs time for whip to go away so that's the natural location for worker pumping after the chariot/growth on the next turn. Suggest removing the citizen from Akkad and working the unimproved grassland, will synch up the barracks and growth so it should be possible to 2-pop whip one axeman into another.

Sailing after writing? It would save some turns building a road to the 3rd city to get the gems connected. Also seems like Calendar is a natural priority and with few forests Math won't be very helpful immediately.

 

[Mighty Dwaarf]

I agree better defense is no. 1 priority then building economy to be able to cope with next city. This would mean more workers. We shouldn't need many more units to cover the three cities a couple of chariots and axes should cope. We could go to Alpha after writing depending on how many turns there is bound to be some trade for sailing available once we have Alpha. We should recover 1 unhappiness from whipping after first 1-2 turns as Settler was whipped on my first turn.

 

[mystyfly]

Comments after looking at the save:

I'd rather Akkad worked a 1F tile instead of 1H - we need to grow to whip workers. Same with Babylon, will be likely be after it finishes its chariot.
Overall I'll whip workers and build chariots to regrow. I don't think we really needed that barracks but no biggie.

Techwise, I'm for writing > aesthetics. We can backfill pretty much I'm sure and get cheap diplo points. I don't like researching Mathematics (though HG would be ) and calendar, I'd rather trade for it. I don't like sailing because we need to put lots of roads down anyway.

RE settling: I don't expect to finish a settler in my set but I disagree with the spot marked on the map - I'd rather found on top of that hill to get 4 pigs in the BFC for a GPFarm. We should be able to get another city up there. Our next city should probabely be near that iron, deer and FPs - we need to seal off some land.

Not sure whether I'm going to play now - I think I'll wait a bit until we have a consenus on techpath.

 

[timmy827]

I'm not so sure the AI's will have Alpha by the time we have Aesthetics. Do we really want any of the wonders on that path? With limited production and no marble that wouldn't be my highest priority. So I think writing->Alpha might be better for backfilling.

Babylon can pump a worker every 6 tunrs without the whip. I would prefer that to still more size limiting.

 

[mystyfly]

I think too that the AI wont have ABC when we get aest but OTOH we can safely build the GL wherever we want. RE wonders from aest: I occasionally build the shwedagon paya so I don't have to tech the religions branch of the techtree and I think we can get gold sooner or later so let's keep that in mind.

I'll play in a couple of hours, teching writing > abc.

 

[mystyfly]

Played 15 turns.

Inherited Turn
Put Akkad to work jungle grassland

(1)
Find out that a worker was on go-to.
Exit civ to reload, without BUG though.

(4)
Dial research down to 0% as writing is about to come in and we can run deficit research once libraries complete. Also to deal with Random Events.
Mine near Babylon finishes. I wonder what it was built for and continue.

(5)
Writing comes in and I select ABC.

Find out that neither Akkad nor Dur-Kuri have ANY culture, wonder for a moment and switch research to mysticism, dial research back to 100% (myst due in 5).

Akkad: rax > worker, as it is on cap due to

(7)
Babylon: Worker > Worker

(10)
Mysticism > ABC, research at 0%.

IBT
Chariot has its first fight and kills a barb archer while defending.

(11)
Bede tells us we could do better:


Queue up Monuments in Akkad and Dur-Kuri.

(12)
said monuments.

(13)
Babylon Worker > Library (It should grow 1 turn before the whipping fades so you might switch in a settler for 1 turn.

---

As good as no barb activity was observed during my set.

We should open borders with De Gaulle, Wang and Alex. De Gaulle can send us some missionaries, and with the others we can accumulate diplo points. JC doesn't (yet) as we need to settle some spots first.

I think it's Settler Spam Time, so my attempted at a dotmap btw:




First city should probabely be yellow dot to seal off land, followed by blue dot. Then black dot and white/cyan dot, should the land still be unsettled. Red and green dot are filler cities that will be great GPfarms. Blue and black dot are great production cities.

Discuss

View attachment LK146 BC-1375.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[LKendter]

Roster
LKendter (on deck)
Quotey (skip July 4th to July 12)
Mighty Dwaarf
Mystyfly
Timmy827 (currently playing)


Our worker situation is better. 4 workers for 3 cities is decent. With this type of map, the one under construction will help.
With us lacking gold, I see the flood plains / gold site as the next city target.

I still don't like our military situation. I was hoping to see at least a couple of axes built. IMHO military is still the big priority. I disagree on settler spam time, as we don't have the military to keep them safe.


Variant:
The first improvement on any land tile must be a road.
NOTE: Clearing forest / jungle is considered an "improvement", so even that action requires a road before doing it.

Remember about 15 peace (including phony wars) / about 10 heavy war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

Remember the use of the BUG mod is prohibited due to its destruction of the in game log. The use of BUG will result in your being ejected from the game.

 

[mystyfly]

I don't see any threat from barbs and I don't expect any from our neighbors anytime soon we can OB with de gaulle and wait for his missionaries. We still didn't meet the hindu founder. Also I think chariot > axe when fighting barbs, I really prefer them for their mobility. Please let those libraries finish, we'll need those GS. I believe Akkad will produce the first GS as it has few strong non-food tiles and will be able to maintain 2 scis.

Also, I can't build everything in 15 turns on epic.

RE settlerspam: The longer we delay settling, the fewer cities we'll get. We are doing very fine economically and can easily sustain 3-4 more cities, especially with gold. IMO we should at least settle yellow, black and blue dot.

 

[ruff_hi]

@mystyfly - what graphic settings are you using. I find that playing rainforest it is very difficult to tell forest from jungle (normal graphics and blueMarble). However, your graphic set up makes it child's play to tell the difference.

 

[mystyfly]

Err... Low and disabled wherever it's possible - I try to get a lag-free game and my laptop barely manages it.

It was without BlueMarble (where I have LowRes too) as I just renamed the custom assets folder to disable BUG. I have no problem telling forest on jungle apart with bluemarble too but it's a bit harder.
BTW I find non-bluemarble terrain just

 

[timmy827]

Got it. Plan to play tomorrow night (pacific time) pending more discussion, here's my take:

I agree with yellow dot as next city and blue dot after that. However, I would move blue dot 1E - gets another hill, another 3F3C spice plantation, and uses the tiles that would otherwise be wasted on the eastern edge of the map. Would also leave room for an eventual filler city between blue and red dots, could borrow one pig and grow to a good number of cottages.

Mystyfly - your "please let the libraries finish" doesn't mesh too well with "spam settlers". I think the settlers are more important ATM. In regards to military - I think maybe 2pop whip axe->chariot or axe in the capital followed by settler building at size 4?

Tech - plan to stay with alphabet and turn research to breakeven after reaching 110, that should be plenty of gold for random event or (in desperate times) warrior-axe upgrade.

Opening borders - DeGaulle and Wang both dislike each other so I'm worried opening with both will piss both off. Since Wang is Alex's worst enemy I'd hold off on open borders for now. DeGaulle is worth the worst enemy risk since (as was pointed out) he might spread missionaries.

 

[mystyfly]

I agree with yellow dot as next city and blue dot after that. However, I would move blue dot 1E - gets another hill, another 3F3C spice plantation, and uses the tiles that would otherwise be wasted on the eastern edge of the map. Would also leave room for an eventual filler city between blue and red dots, could borrow one pig and grow to a good number of cottages.

I was expecting that. I'm aware 1E would be a better city but caesar could see his chance and sneak a settler by. I think reason for this city mainly is to block off those two food sites.

Mystyfly - your "please let the libraries finish" doesn't mesh too well with "spam settlers". I think the settlers are more important ATM. In regards to military - I think maybe 2pop whip axe->chariot or axe in the capital followed by settler building at size 4?

I think these go quite nicely with eachother. They can be 2popwhipped with nice overflow soon and will keep research alive when we hire specs.

Opening borders - DeGaulle and Wang both dislike each other so I'm worried opening with both will piss both off. Since Wang is Alex's worst enemy I'd hold off on open borders for now. DeGaulle is worth the worst enemy risk since (as was pointed out) he might spread missionaries.

As I said earlier, I've never seen worst enemy penalty so early. I'm pretty sure we won't get it this time so OB is not risky. If de gaulle has a worst enemy already, it's good for us anyway.

 

[Diamondeye]

LURKER: Barbarian spearmen are more common as per 3.17, you should be prepared for that. I agree with LKendter that you might need some axes as well. My thoughts on cities is that, if maintenance allows it, yellow and blue dots should be settled first, with available backfill red and lightgreen(both of these could make decent GP farms or cottagecheeses!)

 

[timmy827]

Note to all: This is my first turnset in a "normal" SG so comments are appreciated.

T0 - open borders with all but JC as suggested. Let capital grow as whip anger will be gone next turn.

T2: Akkad worker->settler as it still has a ways to go whip whip anger. I'm moving the chariot northwards to try and see whether that land to the west is closed off or not. Send healed warrior at Dur-Kur to the gold hill to fogbust the planned city site. Worker joins the crew building a complete road to Dur-Kur and gems (I know the tile next to Akkad isn't necessary for trade route connection due to river, but want road in place in case we need to rush a military unit down there.

T3: Trying to compromise between military, library, and settlers, I put an axeman into queue at capital. Said 'man is 2-whipped into settler. Plan is that library will be whippable by end of my set as the gems lift the happy cap.

T5: Axe is sent towards Akkad. Will probably move it to D-K as Akkad could self-whip defender if needed.

T7: Geez, lack of barbs is total and eerie, not like a normal monarch game at all (and there's lots of unexplored territory). Are the barb settings somehow different on this map, or are we just lucky that the wandering AI scouts are fogbusting perfectly for us?



Here you can see workers converging on the gems. Warrior has made it safely to fogbusting position.

T8: Exploring chariot in the west finally runs across a barb warrior but it declines to suicide itself.

T9: Sigh, make that 214 jungle tiles we'll be clearing in this game


Swap settlers in both cities to Libraries so their growth will synch with the gems coming on.

T10: Warrior suicides on our chariot in the west. An unknown civ Oracles CoL and Confuciaism. No one has converted by the end so it was DeGaulle or one of the unmet civs. 2 workers at Akkad (having just finished the mine) start on roading/clearing the pig tile under the watch of the axeman I built.

T11: With gems we are up to breakeven 24 sci/turn. Since the borders have not popped and there's only one warrior, use the workers to clear jungle from the 1W tile for a couple turns. Put both cities back on settlers as they have grown.

T13: Borders pop in 2nd and 3rd cities. Workers at D-K sent to chop forest to complete its Granary and mine the 2nd gems (with the appropriate roads first of course). Capital settler->lib, heads towards yellow dot with the axe as leading escort.

T15: The chariot finally confirms that the west is our backyard:



Settler is near destination (yellow dot remarked for clarity):

 

[timmy827]

Notes for LK:
I believe that when the axe moves first the next turn, the one fog tile north of the dot will be revealed and the settler sent ahead 2 spaces safely. If I'm wrong, you can move the warrior north off the gold to allow the city to be founded a turn earlier.

Babylon will grow into unhappiness next turn. I highly recommend 2-pop whipping the library at that point, the overflow should be enough to complete an axe or chariot to escort the settler about to finish in Akkad (sorry mystyfly, it turns out you were right about no barb threat but I really didn't want to take the chance). There are a few hammers invested in a library at Akkad but that can be overruled easily.

I saw nothing to change current consensus for Mysty's blue dot as next city site (although 2 team members have not weighed in on the dotmap yet).

More general items -- blue dot location -

I was expecting that. I'm aware 1E would be a better city but caesar could see his chance and sneak a settler by. I think reason for this city mainly is to block off those two food sites.

I still advocate the eastern of the 2 locations. Even with the on-spices location there is still gonna be a gap in the borders. I'm not convinced that having the gap one tile narrower will prevent JC from sending a settler through although I'm definitely not an expert on that part of the AI behavior. What do our other three players think?

After blue, the black and white dots look good to me. I'd be in favor of moving the white dot a bit to get furs in the FC though:



The original suggestion was the one 1S of the rice. I'd be kind of surprised if we got both black and white dots though so this may be moot. Black Dot (between us and France, 1E and 1S of the two rices) should be settled before white IMO.

 

[mystyfly]

Basically nice set except this little thing I mentionned in my report:

Dial research down to 0% as writing is about to come in and we can run deficit research once libraries complete.

I meant that. If you dial research down before you start one of the bigger techs (usually ABC or aest) and after writing, and turn it up again after the library in the capital finishes, you get massively more beakers.

 

[timmy827]

Sorry. Just sloppy by me, when I was laying out my plan I somehow remembered your comment about random-event fund but not the other. I also laid out my plan:

Tech - plan to stay with alphabet and turn research to breakeven after reaching 110, that should be plenty of gold for random event or (in desperate times) warrior-axe upgrade.

Your idea does make sense, a reiteration of it after it was clear I missed it would have gotten me to follow it. In rationalizing-after-the-fact mode, while maintaining 0% research would get more beakers overall we will get Alpha sooner this way; we wouldn't burn through the whole deficit by the time it came in.

 

[Mighty Dwaarf]

Looks like JC already has city 1SE of the southernmost spices near the blue dot city. Not sure if this is something that will change the short term strategy though.

 

[mystyfly]

I don't think we'd get abc later with binary research. It's still ~10 turns away, if you ask me, the binary research would've costed at most 1 or 2 turns.

BTW I'll be away for at least two days from tomorrow (until friday), probabely longer, I don't know yet.

 

[LKendter]

1000 BC
My only action is to wake the warrior, to ensure we get to the city site at maximum speed.


975 BC
Library in Babylon is whipped, and then it is reconfigured for high income and low growth while building the axe.


950 BC
Nippur is built at yellow dot, and starts unhealthy.
I whip a chariot in Akkad before the settler. I don't have any spare troops to even see if blue dot is still available.
I whip the granary in Dur.


750 BC
Caesar pretty much trashed blue dot. With the position of the troops, I build the northern pig-iron city by Babylon. After this we need to spread out.


725 BC
We can now trade with the world, but only junk techs are available.
I start research on to start opening out better techs.


700 BC
A barb axe is now in play near one of our cities. The good news is that city has a chariot, and the barb is injured.


650 BC
(IT) De Gaulle has already spread Buddhism to us.

Math is the only possible trade. That alone isn't worth breaking our alphabet monopoly.


Roster
LKendter
Quotey (skip July 4th to July 12)
Mighty Dwaarf (currently playing)
Mystyfly (skip to July 11th) (on deck?)
Timmy827

Variant:
The first improvement on any land tile must be a road.
NOTE: Clearing forest / jungle is considered an "improvement", so even that action requires a road before doing it.

Remember about 15 peace (including phony wars) / about 10 heavy war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

Remember the use of the BUG mod is prohibited due to its destruction of the in game log. The use of BUG will result in your being ejected from the game.