LK151 - WM, where are we?

[Northern Pike]

Brasilia is still going to run out of food just before it completes Bach, and although I like CB's idea of mining the mountains there, I don't think we can avoid losing a turn on the build, given the exact sequence of events on the interturn. It doesn't look as though the extra turn will put us in danger of losing Bach, but the next player should be aware that (as best I can calculate) our schedule is to set Brasilia for no food deficit and one more turn on the build; take Seattle in 770 AD; and complete Bach on the 770/780 interturn.

Military Tradition is in circulation, and a Sioux --> Egypt, MilTrad --> Physics twofer is available now. We should do it immediately, since a twofer involving Physics and another required tech is impossible.

Salvador, Belo Horizonte, and Artie Nielsen should build settlers or workers very soon to empty their full food boxes.

 

[Greebley]

I may be away this weekend as well, but I am not sure yet. If I can grab it I will post an 'I got it' first.

 

[Greebley]

I ended up staying home for the weekend, and I am starting playing.

Aside:
I found a fun game to compete with Civ, but it encourages you to take things slowly with very long real time research times (in the image one time started as 9 hours real time). You basic have to build towers to keep the balloons from reaching the end.

So despite being drawn to this other game, I can gain 2000 gold an hour and some new tech if I play civ first.



You can also pay real world money for faster play, but if I minded slow game play I wouldn't play succession games....

 

[Northern Pike]

You can also pay real world money for faster play

That's why I loathe the whole category of mobile/Facebook/browser games, but if you've found a way to make the enforced waiting a positive, well done.

 

[Greebley]

Preturn: Buy Mil Trad for 255 gpt and 1000 gold. I kept more of our cash for the Knight upgrades. Buy Physics for dyes, Mil Tradition, and 470 gold.
We have both Physics and Mil Trad while Venezuela does not. I end up trading BOTH techs for Navigation, printing press, 58 gpt, and some gold and map.
Buy all maps from all civs using old techs and then buy/selling maps to those that have our techs. All technological civs including us now have full world maps. We also got some more gold and gpt doing this.
I really disagree with keeping one of our best cities at size 6 while we have size 12 cities that could easily pop off a settler and haven't. I am letting Rio grow again and starting in on a bank. I also start building Pentagon in 19 in one of our high shield cities and Mil Academy in the Capital. We do as NP suggests and will build Back in 4.
America is mostly well contained - I don't see any really hard to get to cities so I think I will start keeping them and living with the flips. This means I hope to kill them off as the sooner we do so the more big science farms we get. It is hard to do this on this map with all the small islands.
Several cities at size 12 switched to Settlers. Brasilia, the Capitol, and Herbert West will be the exceptions and won't build a Settler until the finish Bach, Mil Academy, and the Pentagon respectively.
Babylon is in the next Era and there is a possible two-fer with the Sioux but we don't have the cash to get it yet, given that its an Monopoly tech.
IBT: India and Sioux ally vs China and the Aztecs and India declares war on both .
Aside: Full gold for the farms in that game I mentioned indicate it already took an hour+ to do this preturn. A set of 4 Long Bow show up near Ezequiel.
750 AD: End up building the town CBob mentioned this turn called Ford Prefect. The reason is that I can then upgrade the Knights near Seattle this turn which gives me more time to get into position for the attack.
Attack on Long Bows is miserable. We win 2 and lose 2 Knights. They did have a mountain, but still two losses is annoying.
Our attack force near Paulo Alto has enough Artillery, that I decide to go forward rather than trying to upgrade. There is no nearby barracks.
We have a decent amount of cash even after upgrading all our Knights. A I remember a steal is around a 50/50 chance but we gain a lot more than double if it succeeds. Not really afraid of a war with them - even if they ally it means we get back gpt and I think our relationship is likely good enough for no war in any case. In any case, I feel like a bit of a gamble so I decide to try. It is successful and we then trade for Magnetism to put us into the next Era. I then trade about to pick up more gold, gpt and Democracy. Surprisingly, Babylon already has two Industrial techs - Steam Power and Nationalism (one tech was expected but they learned the other the hard way). Now I want to try again with a careful steal of Steam but we don't have the cash for that of course. I drained all but the Sioux of gpt so it won't go to Babylon. I even sell Code of Laws for a buck (1 gold).
One Army pillages a bit and moves next to Boston which isolates the Indian Peninsula.
IBT: American Cavalry show up. They attack our Muskets with us winning one and losing one and 2 retreats.
760 AD:
We Attack Boston with one Army and then Capture it with our first Cavalry Attack. Bombard Paulo Alto - we have enough exactly to red-line the Long Bow and capture it with our Knights without loss. Paulo Alto has a Barracks so I upgrade the Knights into Cavalry. Lose one Cavalry vs a Knight and kill 3 other units that we can safely attack.
IBT: Lose a Musket to a Cavalry, one of our Cavalry holds off one of theirs.
770 AD: We red-line the Muskets but still lose a Cavalry to one of them.
We also capture Chicago with an Army and Cavalry losing one Cavalry.
We also get a new first; a Cavalry Army:


Note that Boston and Chicago are held lightly; if they flip or are captured we can capture back at a smaller less size (less flip).
The Cavalry Army goes after Minneapolis in the mountains.
IBT: Only one Long Bow attacks a Cavalry in the Hills and loses.
We build Bach's Cathedral and enter our Golden Age.
Our completing Bach's makes Egypt complete Magellan.
780 AD: We make a few more trades and get some gpt back we are now at +691 gpt.
This amount isn't enough to buy Steam from Babylon. Likely if I get the gold, I will go for another steal.
I attack Baltimore with a healthy Army and it goes to 3 hp. Cavalry attack the other Muskets and Capture the city with only one retreat.
Cavalry Army easily kills 2 Muskets in Minneapolis in the Mountains and then drops to 2 hp vs a Cavalry.
I build the town Sarah Jane Smith on the site of a now gone American town.
All our armies need healing now.
IBT: Sioux are building Shakespeare's.
We win 3 Musket attacks and lose a Cavalry heading for Albuquerque to a Long Bow.
790 AD: We Capture Albuquerque which pushes the East-most American town past Minneapolis to Portland and shortens our Front Line. We also attack and Capture St. Louis to own all of India. Both these greatly straighten our front:



The Sioux seem to have traded Free Artistry for Steam as they now have it.
IBT: A stack of a Musket and Cavalry are attacked by two Cavalry and we lose both.
800 AD:
Capture Miami using the Army and Cavalry. After doing so I realize the only defenders of it are Cavalry which isn't ideal.
Well there is now a Nationalism for Steam 2-fer in the offering as the Sioux got Free Artistry and traded, but we are just a bit short of the cash needed for a careful. We can get it from Babylon - 1000 gold is enough at 65 gpt. If we fail we can try again in 5 turns or so. I go for it and we succeed again. Note I could have done the safe steal (Babylon had enough cash), but I looked it up and calculated that the careful steal was the better deal for the money.
Nationalism is taken which we trade for Steam and Free Artistry. I then try pushing up Indonesia to the next age, but they don't seem to get a new tech. I was following the civ guide and don't remember from last game if we got free techs/were scientific? So I try again with Persia. They get Medicine. I pick it up using Nationalism and then trade it to Babylon. I check and they have 1200 to 1250 gpt possible. We get 300 gpt from them plus about 500 gold. They also had gems, but I wanted to slow their research so I didn't take them. Note that I could have also done this with Russia, but they are a near neighbor so I wasn't sure whether I wanted to do it with them. We can now try a steal every 4 turns with 995 gpt coming in.
Babylon still has Communism.
IBT: We lose a single Cavalry in Miami. We get the Iron works message but the location is a disappointment, a max size 2 mountain/hills town of Ezequiel.
810 AD: Armies are now healed. I move them up to Cleveland. The injured Army pillages and blocks so they can't attack Miami again.
Gah, the luck on the trades just balanced out. Our one and only Cavalry Army loses to a Musket attacking Portland. It had 9 hp which I thought was plenty. The Cavalry are able to easily overcome the other Musket and the injured one.
Build the city of Amy Pond to fill in a gap between Paulo Alto and Farnsworth.
IBT: No American Attacks. Indonesia land a substantial force next to New Washington on Indonesia. They might even have a chance to take it.
St Louis deposes us and we lose no units. The units were standing next to the city not in it.
820 AD: Artillery units next to St. Louis bombard it and we capture it with the Cavalry in the stack. We capture Cleveland but our Armies take 9, 10, and 6 damage and all need to heal again.
We have connected the Artifacts Archive to our Capitol with rails. We have been building Workers since we got rails.
Our deals only involve world map this turn. I can get the smaller amounts of gold for it or territory map. Even the bigger civs pay us something for the whole known world.
We have enough now to try an Immediate Steal but still only Communism is known. Tried to make embassies, but I can't with Mongols. I think they are down to only a Settler.
Did a bit of drafting as conscript units are good resistance suppressor units.
IBT: Cleveland gets attacked by 3 Cavalry. Our single Musket wins, but two Cavalry lose. I was hoping we would have an Army to defend Cleveland, but with them all losing HP, it wasn't possible. Newtons is built.
830 AD: A nothing turn as our Armies heal. Work on defense of our cities and getting up the rail. We can now afford an immediate steal but only communism is known.
On whim I have started a prebuild for Smith's. Economics is still not known and I think there is only one more Wonder before the wonder cascade breaks.
IBT: Mongols are now destroyed by Babylon. We win against an attacking Cavalry in Cleveland.
840 AD: Investigate cities building Shakespeare's and they are 30 (Avaris) and 28 turns(Berlin) so we could get Shakespeare's at our 10 turns if Economy isn't known by then. Shakespeare's isn't bad with the ability to grow past size 12 and lots of contentment, we could make Brasilia have lots of shields.
IBT: No attacks - we are not getting Elite chances if there are no units. Lots of workers flee into Philadelphia for us to capture next turn.
850 AD: We use two Armies to attack Philadelphia, and finish it off with Cavalry. There are units in Philadelphia to suppress resistors that need to be moved next turn.
Start a slower force toward San Fransisco. It is their current capital, so while the Cavalry could attack right away, its likely to be expensive to take.
Go through and grab the gold from the AI using our World map. Russia has real cash and we sell them a tech for 85 gpt and change.
Notes:
We have a force headed toward San Fransisco as our only current attack. Armies are near Philadelphia. There is a force on a mountain to pillage it.
We have boats near Warehouse Memories to take the American cities on Indonesia. Note that Longbow are on the island so take a Rifle.
Did a bit of drafting for units to suppress resistance but we could use a few more to free up muskets.
I did NOT upgrade all our Muskets. I think we have enough cash to do so - maybe even some on the Preturn.
Only tech we don't have is Communism.
I am still shrinking American cities by building Workers. Eventually we can keep the cities at full size when we get closer to destroying them, but its still a ways a way. I think keeping the cities is worth it for their aqueducts and other improvements.
I did not sell all barracks as Sun Tzu might flip.
I did not have time to go through the cities and adjust them. I woke up many random units to but maybe not all.
Our settlers are next to the Capitol.
Ran out of time for making a final picture. May post later if I have time.

 

[Greebley]

I had two crashes which is unusual. Had to do over half of the last turn twice and some other turn early on.

Our lack of Armies makes our progress slow. It would be useful to fight a civ with a lot of minor units like Australia or Zulu. We should have rails across our lands soon to allow us to do so if we wish.

Made a lot of deals even for small amounts of cash Most of the more primitive civs really like us

 

[LKendter]

ROSTER:
Timing works pretty good, as a might be able to start tonight. If not, I can start tomorrow.

LKendter (up)
Greebley (swapped)
Northern Pike (on deck)
CommandoBob

An excellent turn for tech deals.

 

[Greebley]

An excellent turn for tech deals.

I just wish it wasn't balanced by my losing our one and only Cavalry Army

 

[Greebley]

I forgot to mention that Mil Academy and Pentagon are almost complete.

I have been thinking about the Shakespeare build. We will easily get there first and might as well start a prebuild to grab Smith as well in that city. We can even grow to size 20 once Economy is known. If Economy is learned by the AI, we may still be able to beat them to Smith's - just spend some cash to see if we have a chance.

A size 20 town will get us TOE and/or Hoover quickly so I think it is worth doing this and building the Wonders because we can.

Edit: I think we can jump to size 20 if Economy is known so starting to improve all 20 squares.. We will need more irrigation.

 

[Northern Pike]

Great work trading and stealing techs.

The Military Academy will be rather wasted in Salvador, since all that city's base terrain is grassland and it'll never be shield-strong enough to build armies very quickly. This is a more important concern than usual, since we've had such bad luck generating armies in combat. Thus I'd suggest that we should swap the builds around (using the palace as necessary) so that Brasilia with its hills and mountains will build the MA, and Salvador Shakespeare.

We should be alert to start our ToE pre-build at any time. The Babylonians or Sioux could come up with Electricity any turn now, and SciMeth comes after that.

We're fortunate in the distribution of the thirteen remaining American cities--four will require very short hops over water, but none are real outliers. We can afford to rush our temple builds in Farnsworth and Amy Pond, and then start rushing in those towns the ships that will let us reach Orlando and New Washington on Sumatra. We'll need at least one native coastal city near Arabia so that we can rush ships and land at Olympia and Pittsburgh, since we can't rush in resisting American cities.

Of course it would be trivial to reach Olympia and Pittsburgh through Sioux Omaha, but I don't think we want to fight the Sioux yet since their research is useful, and in the rail age an RoP agreement is often a huge PITA.

When our anti-American alliance with Venezuela expires in three turns, we certainly shouldn't renew it. We don't need any more help against Abe, and a renewal would badly compromise our flexibility.

I'll second what Greebley said about a full MM check. Several of our major cities building 80-shield units can be bumped up to 27 spt--Rio, Natsu Dragneel, Claudia Donovan, and Artie Nielsen at least, possibly Helena G. Wells and Captain Mal Reynolds as well.

 

[Greebley]

Actually what if the current city building the Pentagon switched to the palace for a smith or TOE prebuild, The capitol to the pentagon and keep Shakespeares in the brazillia. Then upon completing Shakespeares we start the military academy a bit later, but with a size 20 hilly city building armies.

 

[Northern Pike]

Sure--as long as the Military Academy ends up in Brasilia, I wouldn't object to that timing. Once Brasilia has Shakespeare we can merge it up to size twenty immediately, so it'll build the MA very quickly.

 

[Greebley]

Once Brasilia has Shakespeare we can merge it up to size twenty immediately, so it'll build the MA very quickly.

Ya, I agree with this. We have enough workers now that we could allocate 2 stacks to railing mining starting now so the city is ready when it completes Shakespeare's.

 

[LKendter]

I hope to start this tonight, though with war going I suspect it will take a few days.

Military goals - continue to pound on America, with the goal of annihilation. With rails and all those extra cities, I hope this is enough to have a win pretty secured already.
It sounds like places are awkward to get to, so I don't know if my 10 will finish it.


Preplan:
Brasilia - Shakespeare, then military academy. Make it a worker priority to improve, and look for working merging after the theater.
Unknown city - swap from Pentagon to palace prebuild. The goals are either Smiths for ToE. Depending on how far the pre-build is along, I may look for another city.
Capitol - Pentagon

 

[Northern Pike]

That all sounds good.

Actually America's thirteen remaining cities are as compact as we could hope, with just two very short water crossings involved in reaching them all. We might simply lack the strength to take thirteen objectives in ten turns, depending on whether we generate more armies.

 

[LKendter]

850 AD (0)
Herbert West is now building a palace due in 25 turns, while economics is 30. This will have to be watched closely.
Salvador is now building the Pentagon.

I can't believe how backwards Argentina is. I sell them communications with France for $12. They won't even give up there pathetic $15 for it.
They are THE screwed civ of the map starting in Greenland, when it doesn't have any happy resources.
(IT) We lost 1 musket guarding workers, but America mostly quite.
Our people want to build the military academy.
Bleeping Boston flips back to America. I really hate capturing cities at deity.


860 AD (1)
Boston was isolated, so we only had to kill a spear to get it back. We still lost a quality defender in the flip, as I didn't get a MDI into the city.

You know you just got rails when the big goal is to connect the cities. Outside of Brasilia, I'm not trying to improve any city. India is connected, and almost got SE Asia good.


870 AD (2)
We bombard San Francisco down to all 1 HP units, just to watch an elite cavalry die to a 1 HP musket. What is really annoying is that happened three !#!#@$! times. 5 HP cavalary should kill 1 HP muskets.
The city is captured, but the price was obscene.

Despite a ton of workers, I feel very stretched. Getting rails in the middle of a war is tough, as you need rails to nearly captured cities besides the internal improvements.
To make rail laying more of a challenge is all the hills and mountains for some of the captured American cities.
Venezuela is probably our next target. I won't feel comfortable about a war until we have all cities rail connected. Our border with them is absurdly long and getting longer with the new cities from America.
(IT) The first wonder is off the list, as we complete the Pentagon.
I really despise Boston, as it flips again to America. This time it only had an MDI, but it is still annoying.


880 AD (3)
I now have the American cities in the mountains connected. It Be Salty is the next isolated city needing multiple tiles to get in on the network. We have enough workers to get to start working above China.
Boston is easily reclaimed.

If you have to ask if America is doomed...

(IT) I wonder why America wants to talk to us?

 

[LKendter]

890 AD (4)
The assualt on Phoenix begins. I lost yet another elite cavalry to a 1 HP musket. The odds are I won't generate leaders this round, as I'm running out of elite units.
That was the only unit lost, and we found 2 cannons inside the city.
(IT) We lost an exploring galley to a pirate.
I'm glad I put some rifles when landing on the islands, as we were hit by a cavalry that died.
Now St. Louis flips on us, and another MDI suppression unit is toasted.


900 AD (5)
We capture Orlando on the island that had 3 musket defending. I'm glad I brought 3 ships worth of units. We get a bonus of destroying some ships in port.
We capture Houston with a cannon inside.
St. Louis is recovered with a lone spear in defense.
(IT) This is flip torture to say the least. Now it is Philadelphia that flips. With being close to the front, that costs us another 4 HP rifle.
Now Portland flips, in the middle of the blasted mountains.


910 AD (6)
Portland is such a mountain mess that I can do is send a bunch of cavalry to recover it next turn.
Philadelphia has such strong culture that I have no choice but to throw a bunch of cavalry near it to recover next turn.
Detriot is captured. I can't even rail up to the city this turn due to Philadelphia’s very strong culture.
This is the last city standing nearby. I now have the pains on the islands, and the Middle East to deal with.

The good news is I think all of our mainland cities are now connected. This will let me all tiles around Brasilia with rails before the theater completes.
(IT) To keep our options open, I don't renew our silks from Venezuela. I will have to look elsewhere for a replacement resource.
We are the proud owner of Shakespeare's Theater.

 

[LKendter]

920 AD (7)
Philadelphia and Portland are recovered.

We ship the Aztecs democracy for incense.
I send Persia iron for $39/T.
(IT) America gets a friend, as Indonesia stops fighting them.


930 AD (8)
New Washington is captured, but we now have almost all troops injured. The good news is the Sioux captured the last city, so we don't have to worry about Spokane. That would have been a several turn delay.

I sign a RoP with the Sioux, as that is the only practical way to get rids of those cities in Arabia. Our ships are still too far away to help.
Pittsburgh is promptly razed netting 3 workers and 1 cannon.
Olympia is captured by mistake, and abandoned. I lost some potential workers due to the mistake capture.

I start packing the American cities with troops to end the resistance. War with Venezuela isn't practical until we get temples in these cities, and this requires 100% under our control.
We are currently suffering with 80 resistors.
I swap most of the American cities to temples. It is time to start building up some shields toward locked borders.
With Sun Tzu now secure, I will sell off all of our barracks in the mainland cities.

India suddenly has GPT, so I ship physics for wm, $50 and $63/T.

As badly as we need workers, I still decide to start a market in Five Wheat. I find the same situation in Wendy Marvel and Cure Dream.
I don't feel we can keep these low corruption cities on workers. We will need to rely on peeling off workers at size 12, and from junk cities.
That was one disappointment from the American war. I hardly found any fresh workers.
(IT) I get to see plenty of resistance drop, including some resistance ending notice.

 

[LKendter]

940 AD (9)
We are down to 21 resistors. I can rush a couple of temples.

I've been working on the railroad...

I burn 5 grand and steal electricity from Babylon.
I'm very disappointed the Sioux have no GPT for it.
Persia gives us $80 and $280/T. That will help to recover the cost.
Egypt gives us $60 and $190/T.
This works out marginal except for the fact that I really want to know when Scientific Method shows up.
China finally has real money to offer, so he gets medicine for $220 and $150/T.


950 AD (10)
We are over paying, but I send electricity to Venezuela for economics.
Herbert West changes to Smith that is due Next turn .
With Smith's locked, I send economics to Babylon for $1420, and $11/T. For once he has no cash on hand.

 

[LKendter]

Summary:
Rio will finish a university next turn, and is the best city to set a new palace pre-build for ToE.
I switch research to scientific method at max pace, and we can get it in 10 turns. Depending on the timing of more libraries / universities and end of GA this may vary a bit.
The military academy will complete in 4 turns, so we should finally start getting some armies.


I see one of 2 civs as out next target:
1 - Zulu, they are crazy backwards, and the only borders we add are with backwards Australia. The advantage is we have the troops on hand right now to deal with them.
There units are so backwards, that our old MDI elites may generate some leaders for more armies.
We could let all the captured slow build temples. The Zulu are impressed with our culture, so we shouldn't suffer many flips.
The bad part is we will have to tie of a decent number of workers to rail between the cities.

2 - Venezuela, as there cities line up so well with our borders.
We will have several disadvantages as there LLanro (buffed cavalry) are in play.
Our people admire their culture, so flips will be a major headache.
Some of their cities are in really awkward locations such as having the island above Siberia.
The advantage is we kill another major civ, and we should pick up a lot more science / tax farms.

Personally I lean toward the Zulu, as our troops on hand can finish them while we concentrate on buildings in the core. The WM is already a rush against time in the end, and we are in the expansion phase.
__________________


Summary:


ROSTER:
LKendter
Greebley (swapped)
Northern Pike (up)
CommandoBob (on deck)