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LK151 - WM, where are we?

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by LKendter, Mar 26, 2014.

  1. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

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    This is the roster post to confirm this is starting.

    The first time even I will randomize the Civ starting positions with the world map. The next few days are busy, but I can squeeze in the moves since it is the begin game.

    LKendter (up)
    Greebley (on deck)
    Northern Pike
    CommandoBob


    I just need to get confirms from the three above.
     
  2. Northern Pike

    Northern Pike Deity

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    Confirming. :rockon:

    Additions to the roster would still be welcome, I'm sure--Vmxa, might you be interested? Rat, it's not going to be CCM, but it would be great to have you in the game if you surface.

    LK, I understand that the starting location will be random, i.e. non-historical for our civ. But does that mean a random civ in a random place, or will we still be choosing our civ?
     
  3. Greebley

    Greebley Deity Supporter

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    Confirmed as well.

    How about making it random fully , but if you don't like the civ (such as used it recently or some such), then try again.
     
  4. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

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    I was planning on totally random - both Civ and Location. Hopefully we don't wind up in Greenland. ;(
     
  5. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

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    4000 BC (0)



    We go for writing @40 turns, as it is the most expensive thing we can research.


    3250 BC (15)
    We meet our first neighbor of America. Pretty funny since I think we started around China for territory. With our second location being broken, and begging for a granary, I give him alphabet for pottery and $10.


    2950 BC (21)
    We build food overload.


    2150 BC (21)
    We dial up America and give writing, burial, $51 to get masonry and bronze working.




    Summary:
    Based on lack of contacts, I'm not sure how valuable going for literature and the GL is.
    We already can build ships once we get a coastal city. However, to ship settlers to the islands (Japan) will need galley (map making).
    I have no clue if we could be first to philosophy.
    Code of laws is only appealing being a third level tech.
    With just 2 cities, I don't see needing math to plan for war.
    I won't waste our 40 turn research on level 1 tech.
    That is how I picked iron working. No time is invested yet if you want to change it. The bad news is America knows this already.

    Rio will be a settler / worker pump. Salvador is production heavy. Keep building stuff, as exploration is far more important than a typical map.

    Remember to toss out any expectations this game. Venezuela is typically lame in the WM, but could turn out the powerhouse this game. If the Sioux get a tundra start, then can be a dud.
    I expect to find a handful of powerhouse civs.



    Our starting area:



    The American start:



    Summary:

    ROSTER:
    LKendter
    Greebley (up)
    Northern Pike (on deck)
    CommandoBob (waiting on confirm)
     

    Attached Files:

  6. vmxa

    vmxa Deity Supporter

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    NP I have hardly played civ in the past 18 + months. Been wasting time, I mean, playing Diablo. Now that RoS is live, it will be a few more months. Then I think I will finally have done all I want and put it side.

    I have been lurking the games all along.
     
  7. Northern Pike

    Northern Pike Deity

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    It's great to have two granaries already in high-food cities. :goodjob:

    I'd suggest that our next city should go on the river plains tile between a BG and a cow four tiles basically west of Rio, since we obviously have to grab the good sites in this direction quickly or we'll lose them to America.

    IMO, the lack of contacts so far is a strong argument for the Great Library. A GLib build may involve a tricky choice, since Rio would be a better location for the pre-build (since it's not the capital and can use the palace) than Salvador, but it's also a better settler pump (+5 versus +4 food in despotism). If we can found a strong third city and immediately start pre-building there, that might solve the problem.

    Choosing the tech for our forty-turn run at this point is always a leap in the dark, but given that we already know IW won't have trade value, I'd switch to Literature.

    LK, I can tell that Brazil is religious because temples are cheap, but what's our other civ trait? And what is our UU--the Dyina?
     
  8. Northern Pike

    Northern Pike Deity

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    I'm glad you're staying in touch, and I understand the appeal of Diablo. :lol:
     
  9. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

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    Commercial is our other trait.

    BEF (better infantry) is our UU.
    The Dyina is the Songhai UU.

    We also want to more warriors exploring every way. A some point a coastal city. The random tests I did before this start showed a tendency for a far Siberia civ, Australian civ, Greenland civ, and multiple in America. I'm 100% convinced we started in Asia, and I am planning based on that.
     
  10. Greebley

    Greebley Deity Supporter

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    I got it.

    I think I also favor the literature route slightly more than the other options. For one thing it's a tech the AI doesn't go for so even if we missed the GLib, we could still be first in our area to reach Lit.

    If we are in Asia, I think we will have multiple contacts long before we finished the GLib.

    I also think if we are going for the GLib a coastal city should be our 4th city so we can send boats toward the Americas for max contacts. Getting a tech and then selling to a civ that knows no one that has it can be worthwhile.
     
  11. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

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    That I can understand. I finally joined the MMORPG world with Rift. It has sucked up a lot of time, and I haven't even finished the goals for the starting zone of Freemarch. I know I have 100s of hours of playing time left.
     
  12. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

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    There was a reason I picked the 40 turn break point. It wasn't clear cut at this point.
    With 2 GL votes, I will support the GL run. Let us get city #3 going with a good prebuild. I hate to tie up #2 with being +5 food.

    I hope so. One of the advantages we get early on from 40 turns runs is cash for workers. It is hard to do that without contacts.
     
  13. Greebley

    Greebley Deity Supporter

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    Preturn: Switch to Lit at min science.
    1990 BC: America puts a town really close to us. It means we will have some overlap with our cow site (2 squares will go to the one with better culture in the town).
    1950 BC: Run into the Sioux. I can trade Writing for Warrior code and the Wheel. They have no cash.
    America doesn't have Warrior Code but won't trade away Iron Working even if we wanted to. Decide since the Sioux are closer to America than us, they are only a few turns from meeting the Sioux and gaining WC anyway. They have 53 gold, so I trade WC for the gold so we get something for it.
    IBT: Babylon completes Pyramids.
    1910 BC: Build Brasilia in spot mentioned before. An expansion will give us a second cow and we want to contest for those two squares I mentioned, so I start a temple. We can switch that if we decide to go straight for the wonder.
    Lux has to go up for size 5 town, but only for a turn.
    IBT: Built two settlers this round. One will be coastal and one near the floodplain wheat.
    1750 BC: I settle Four Wheat Feat because it would have 4 wheat within its radius with a temple, but then immediately have to rename it to Five Wheat Feat. It could eventually have 4 flood plains, 3 flood plain wheat, 2 plains wheat, and the rest all plains. I think that is enough to get to 1 Worker/turn even in despotism if it could stay happy enough.
    Our other settler is on the coastal spot to settle. It will have 3 BG and a fish with Expansion.
    I was able to trade Ceremonial Burial for Iron Working and 215 gold to Sioux. I suggest we go for the Iron spot next. There is one other Iron nearby which we may want to consider to keep it from America (America has Horses and we don't).

    I marked the iron and and existing settler on the map.

     
  14. Northern Pike

    Northern Pike Deity

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    It's always useful to have a temple in the Wonder city, so at only thirty shields (since we're religious) that was certainly the right decision. :goodjob:

    I've got it, but I won't play for a few hours, so there's time if anyone wants to make suggestions or comments.
     
  15. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

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    ROSTER:
    LKendter
    Greebley
    Northern Pike (up) (and got it)
    CommandoBob (on deck) (waiting on confirm)
     
  16. Northern Pike

    Northern Pike Deity

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  17. Northern Pike

    Northern Pike Deity

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    1750 (0): I change the capital's worker build to a barracks. It's painful to delay our next worker, but I want to establish a cycle whereby the city can reach 10 spt and skim off workers at size six, and this is the best way.


    1725 (1): We found Belo Horizonte on the coastal site chosen by Greebley, and begin production of a curragh.


    1700 (2): The Americans extort 28 gold out of us.

    Rio de Janeiro settler --> settler.


    1675 (3): Not much.


    1650 (4): Salvador barracks --> warrior.


    1625 (5): Salvador warrior --> warrior.


    1600 (6): We found Fortaleza, the coastal iron city suggested by Greebley, but one tile northwest of his location. This way the town will have a river, and twelve land tiles rather than nine, just for the sacrifice of a fish. We start a curragh in the town.

    Salvador warrior --> spearman, Rio settler --> settler.

    The Persians, unknown to us, complete the Colossus.


    1575 (7): The Americans have Map Making. With no techs to offer them there's nothing we can do about it.


    1550 (8): Our Central Asian exploring warrior spots a new border. So does our explorer in northwest Africa, but in the latter case the border is on the other side of the Mediterranean and he may not be able to make the contact.

    Brasilia temple --> palace pre-build.


    1525 (9): We meet the Venezuelans in Central Asia and the Russians in Spain (since our warrior is able to spot one of their workers across the Straits of Gibraltar). But both contacts are useless from a trade standpoint: the Venezuelans, probably a hopeless tundra civ, have ten cities, no gold, and no techs we don't have; the Russians have twelve cities and 37 gold and are even further behind in tech.

    Salvador spearman --> worker, Belo Horizonte curragh --> curragh.


    1500 (10): The Americans have a worker we could buy--see discussion below.
     
  18. Northern Pike

    Northern Pike Deity

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    Our settler presently NW of Fortaleza is headed for 1 in the fog, which is a tremendous site provided it's on a river, as looks to be the case. This town should make a temple its first build. It's less clear what we should do with the new settler about to complete in Rio, but I'd suggest site 2. This city could in practice have full use of the wheat plain on a river it would share with Five Wheat Feat, since FWF has so much other wheat. After that, exploration east of the city at 1 might reveal useful sites.

    Our first curragh has just put out to sea, and is intended to take the Taiwan-Philippines-New Guinea route and make contact with the civ that presumably occupies Australia. The next two ships from our coastal cities--which if we're fortunate will be galleys--can begin the long haul to North America via Alaska. If we are able to send galleys, at least one should carry a warrior to make inland contacts in the Americas.

    The only tech in circulation that we don’t have is Map Making, an American monopoly.

    The Americans have a worker available for 124 gold. It's a close call, and discussion is welcome, but I judge that it's too early for worker purchases. I think we should retain our ability to make trades, since there are techs we want to have long before we'll build the Great Library, in particular Map Making.

    Rio de Janeiro is a stable four-turn settler pump (which does need MM back to +5 food whenever it produces a settler, of course). It's running at sizes four to six rather than five to seven, but since we have to increase the lux rate to 20% whenever we have a city at size six, that's acceptable for the moment.

    Five Wheat Feat can use the plains wheat tile it shares with Rio when Rio is at size four, but Rio has to have the tile when it's at size five.

    As soon as Salvador produces its worker this IT we can return the lux rate to 10%.

    Having Salvador produce three-turn spearmen while it's at size five, and then a one-turn worker whenever it reaches size six, is a good cycle at present.
     
  19. Northern Pike

    Northern Pike Deity

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    Waxing fat:



     
  20. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

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    This is the first post from the new PC. I’m still working on getting things like Civ3 setup.
    ROSTER:
    LKendter (on deck)
    Greebley
    Northern Pike
    CommandoBob (up) (waiting on confirm)
     

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