1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

LK152 - the weak Venezuela

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by LKendter, Sep 17, 2014.

  1. Northern Pike

    Northern Pike Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2003
    Messages:
    6,673
    It's highly unlikely that 17 gold will make a difference, so I wouldn't abandon the hope of getting a tech for Writing from Brazil eventually. You could temporarily put all the commerce we're assigning to happiness into gold, and see if that would give us sufficient positive gpt to make a deal happen.

    Don't worry about it too much, because this is the point at which we naturally start falling out of the brokering game--certainly with a start like this. It won't matter much as long as we build the Great Library.
     
  2. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2006
    Messages:
    5,121
    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    Pre-turn:

    Caracas, size 5 (+5fpt, +6spt, +10cpt, Warrior in 1)
    Cumana, size 2 (+2fpt, +4spt, +4cpt, Palace in 73)
    Barinas, size 1 (+1fpt, +3spt, +1cpt, Curragh in 2)

    We have 4 Warriors, one exploring. A fifth is about to be built as MP in Caracas.

    We have 3 Workers and 1 Slave, all building Roads due in 2 turns.

    One Settler is going for the Hill near the Iron.

    Plans:

    Build Worker-Settler-Worker in Caracas
    Build 2 Warriors in Barinas after the Curragh completes. Or should I switch to Warrior immediately?
    Continue improving Cumana; connect it to Caracas by road.

    IBT:

    Caracas: Warrior > Worker

    Turn 1:

    MM Caracas; citizen moves from gold tile (autoassigned) to grassland for the food.

    IBT:

    Barinas: Curragh > Warrior

    Brazil is building the Pyramids.

    Turn 2:

    Worker and slave by Caracas move E to the grassland
    Cumana W1 starts roading a Plains
    Cumana W2 starts roading the Hill NW of the city

    IBT:

    Brazil asks our explorer to leave.
    Caracas: Worker > Settler

    Turn 3:

    We spot an Argentinian Curragh sailing past Barinas.
    New Worker goes to help build the road to Cumana.

    IBT:

    Sioux are building Oracle

    Turn 4:

    America now has Mathematics, but we can't afford it.

    IBT:

    America demands 30 gold. I give in.
    We see a second Argentinian Curragh following the first.

    Turn 5:

    We found Coro S of Cumana, near the Iron. It's building a Warrior.

    IBT:

    Barinas: Warriors

    Turn 6:

    Hill roading crew finishes their task. They go to improve one of the plains tiles (one roads, the other irrigates)
    Warrior from Barinas starts southward.

    IBT:

    Caracas: Settler > Worker

    Turn 7:

    MM Caracas to +5fpt
    Move Settler towards the Two-Banana spot.
    Lux slider to 10%; no riots.

    IBT:

    {crickets chirp}

    Turn 8:

    Argentina has Map Making!
    Argentina has 50g
    Brazil has 17g (and is down IW, Writing, Myst)
    America has 58g and Math and HBR.
    Sioux have 56g
    Aztecs have 109g and HBR

    No trades.

    IBT:

    Caracas: Worker > Settler

    Turn 9:

    Join the new Worker to Cumana.
    Now Argentina, America, and the Aztecs all have Map Making and HBR. The latter two have Math.

    IBT:

    Brazil boots our explorer.
    Barinas: Warrior > Curragh
     

    Attached Files:

  3. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2001
    Messages:
    18,437
    A pretty quiet turn with another city built, and settler ready for another.

    ROSTER:

    LKendter (on deck)
    Elephantium
    Northern Pike
    Greebley (up)
    Room for one more
     
  4. Northern Pike

    Northern Pike Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2003
    Messages:
    6,673
    Coro had a second banana hidden in the fog--very nice.

    Coro should build a temple after its present warrior, since we want a cultural expansion to claim the iron there. We may not need iron for a while, but we want to discourage poaching.

    That's what we need. :thumbsup:

    That graphics mod turning one figure into four is really disconcerting, when one isn't used to it. :lol:
     
  5. Northern Pike

    Northern Pike Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2003
    Messages:
    6,673
    I'd say the settler we'll build in four turns should continue to settle forward (towards Brazil), even though that will probably mean another jungle site and one currently in fog. At this point we have to grab land for its own sake. Just getting enough cities down to build the FP may be a challenge.
     
  6. Greebley

    Greebley Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2002
    Messages:
    9,465
    Location:
    Boston Area, MA
    I got it.
     
  7. Greebley

    Greebley Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2002
    Messages:
    9,465
    Location:
    Boston Area, MA
    Preturn: No changes
    IBT: France gets the Pyramids. America gets the Oracle (Washington)
    1475 BC: We grow to size 6 so I switch the capitol to the gold and we get settler and grow in 3. This also frees up the mined BG for our Palace build.
    Also raise Lux.
    Built One Banana Two Banana
    1450 BC: Not much
    1425 BC: Great Lighthouse is the popular AI wonder...
    1400 BC: Next settler head south. Land is already looking tricky.
    I merged one of our workers as we had a spot we could use for the GLib.
    I am now building a worker. Still don't need that BG since capitol can do 5 shields and 5 food.
    Aztecs have place a city very close to our Canal city that will give it flip risk.
    1375 BC: Curragh built and I switch to a temple. We have a major competition to get squares two away. I know we need more Curragh but losing our canal city would be bad.
    Another spot for our Palace city was completed so I added another person.
    Trade situation is still lousy.
    1325 BC: Built a Worker in the Capitol to replace first merged one.
    1300 BC: Looks like we missed out on getting spices. Brazil grabbed them first. Brazil being behind in tech may make them a good target eventually with us picking up another Lux.
    1275 BC: I pop rush the Temple in our Canal city so we win the culture race and can start on Curragh again. Note that the town wasn't growing (needs worker help or Harbor to go past size 2).
    1250 BC: Build Three Banana Four next to two bananas. Comana seems safe from forest chop so I renamed it.
    Notes:
    Literature in 17 and Palace in 18 so we are doing well there.
    We want more workers and settlers of course. Coro could build one after the temple.
    Please double check my calculation on building the settler. we have 11 shields and with 6 a turn I think we get the settler in 3 and not 4 (29 +1 for growth). This allows the mined BG to stay with our Palace build.
    I see three possible points:
    1) rushing Temples when one has 20 shields works perfectly for both the Banana towns.
    2) In 18 turns we will have Literature. One way to lose the GLib is from a demand. It's very costly to switch to good defense now and start on Spears and maybe archers BUT being able to refuse demands could be a matter of getting the GLib vs losing it to a cascade. We could even rush barracks instead of temples. We could also consider connecting the Iron.
    3) The extra population as Workers is also tempting.
    I like 1 in many games but this one we likely can't afford it here. 2 may be important but our best city is the Capitol which is painful to switch to units when it can build settlers.
    In fact I think I favor switching all the Temples to Barracks and making this our last settler for a while. To grow we do an early (er) war with Brazil (since we aren't building settlers this become vital) especially if we jump ahead in tech with the GLib to claim their cities. This means staying on military. It also means refusing demands for Literature (unless the cascade breaks) and defending long enough to make peace. Enough Spears in cities to make them go after farther away cities (but make peace first) is an effective (but sometimes scary) strategy even against big civs. Really though only Aztecs and Brazil could get to us fast enough to be a full threat so we only need to be strong enough to hold those two off. (Argentina might become more of one later if they build close cities and roads).
    I did not do this switch as it has a high cost in culture, city count, and risk of war - but also some real advantages (GLib and Brazil's cities).

     
  8. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2001
    Messages:
    18,437
    I got it, but will wait a bit to see feedback on Greebley's options. I'm in favor of getting as many natural cities as possible before a war with Brazil. Those cities will be crap until a lot of worker actions, and I hope Brazil will be able get more workers out in the field to help our future cities.
     
  9. Greebley

    Greebley Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2002
    Messages:
    9,465
    Location:
    Boston Area, MA
    Really its a question of whether we want to sacrifice growth to get enough defense to resist demands.

    If not I suggest we pop rush the two banana towns as both need culture and we will have culture conflict for a while. [Edit: I think we can rush in 2 and 10 turns]

    If we do want to go military AND we think we can get enough to resist demands, then we follow that plan and increase our chance of getting the library. (I think the war is incidental, but a single AI who is not super advanced can be attacked early without loss - that would likely wait for Monarchy so its not immediate. Warrior build up for upgrades and jump Brazil before they get Pike)
     
  10. Northern Pike

    Northern Pike Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2003
    Messages:
    6,673
    Nice MM to give the pre-build city the capital's BG when possible. :goodjob:

    We always have the option of yielding if Literature is demanded, of course. It's nerve-wracking, but if the demand comes when we have five turns or fewer to go on the Library, we probably won't lose it.

    I don't think a radical course in which we stop producing settlers is necessary. I'd favour a compromise which puts us in position to refuse demands from the three civs to our north, while we take our chances with the Argentines and Brazilians. Specifically, I'd suggest that we:

    1. Make Barinas as as strong as possible, with walls, a barracks, and then units built in the town, while we also construct a fortress on the hill chokepoint S-SE of the town so that enemies can never get past that point;

    2. Work one curragh into Caracas's build sequence (it should only take two turns) to make up for the one that Barinas won't be building;

    And 3. Switch One Banana Two Banana from its temple build to a barracks, after which it can build military while receiving some worker service.

    I'm glad to see that development of our Wonder city is almost complete--the only essential task after the present ones is the mining of one hill--so soon some workers will be available for Barinas and One Banana Two Banana.
     
  11. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2001
    Messages:
    18,437
    1250 BC (0)
    I switch Barinas to a wall.
    A 12 shield rush isn't that great, but I rush the temple in Bara so that it can start a barracks and military. Plus it speeds up the option to connect iron if needed.

    I am a bit surprised to see a ship on the East of of America. That ship will take longer to get to Asia, and there are to many risky jumps to Europe.
    (IT) We get auto-booted by Brazil.


    1200 BC (2)
    One banana gets a rushed temple.


    1125 BC (5)
    We give Brazil iron working for $54 and a worker. This is weak, but my gut says it will be the best we get from iron working. The new worker starts slow road laying in Central America.


    1075 BC (7)
    (IT) Monty gets $48 in extortion money.
     
  12. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2001
    Messages:
    18,437
    1000 BC (10)
    I found my first city of the set. Those three coastal tiles are forest, so as soon as we can get a worker there it should quickly get a temple, then to military.
    The misclicked worker by one banana should head this way.


    Three banana gets a pop rushed temple.


    Summary:


    ROSTER:

    LKendter
    Elephantium (up)
    Northern Pike (on deck)
    Greebley
    Room for one more
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2006
    Messages:
    5,121
    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    I've got it.

    Plans:

    Caracas: Worker, Curragh, Settler
    Puerto Ayacucho: Temple and then military (with Worker chops)
    Three Banana, Coro, and Barinas: Military
    One Banana: Worker and then military?

    Keep sending Curraghs towards Asia

    Most importantly: GLib switch from prebuild!

    Anything else to keep in mind?
     
  14. Northern Pike

    Northern Pike Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2003
    Messages:
    6,673
    Our Great Library city should work its forest, so that the palace pre-build is on the same seven-turn schedule as our run to Literature. Then when we discover Literature, we can use The Big Picture to switch the palace to the Library before the build completes, in the usual way.

    After the two workers near Coro finish their road this IT, they should return to the pre-build city and mine the hill that's already roaded; this is the one necessary tile improvement there we haven't done. Then (assuming we've discovered Literature and switched the build) we should merge three more workers into the GLib city, and MM it to the maximum shields at no food surplus. More merging will be painful, but we don't want to spoil our effort by pinching pennies at the last minute.

    We want to settle the site marked 1 on the screenshot, not because it's any good but just to grab the land before a rival does. So I'd suggest that our present settler should found there, and the next one can settle where the present one is now (my old site 3).

    Regarding builds, Caracas doesn't need to produce a curragh, since the replacement curragh (for the one Barinas didn't build) has been launched. A galley built when we have Map Making from the GLib would overtake a curragh sent now around Japan in any case. I think Caracas should build one more settler and then workers for the rest of your round.

    It's a close call, but I wouldn't build the worker in One Banana, which needs some population if it's going to help us with military builds. We only need to wait a little longer, and Caracas will be able to pump out a worker every two turns, since we'll have nowhere left to settle peacefully. I'd switch One Banana to a barracks.
     
  15. Northern Pike

    Northern Pike Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2003
    Messages:
    6,673
     
  16. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2001
    Messages:
    18,437
    Site 1 would also insure the nobody can poach our iron. A very important goal. ;)
     
  17. Greebley

    Greebley Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2002
    Messages:
    9,465
    Location:
    Boston Area, MA
    Sorry about sending the ship the wrong way. You had mentioned the jump was too far, but I had forgotten when I played my turns. I am not sure how many risks it takes, but if 2 or less we could gamble on faster contact with the European civs. A big jump forward if it works, but likely to fail so I am not sure.

    Site 1 would be great if it had a fish. Have the warrior near it check out the hill to see.
    I think a Temple followed by a Harbor would be its best build path.
     
  18. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2006
    Messages:
    5,121
    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    Pre-turn:

    Have GLib city work the forest as discussed.
    Switch One Banana to a Barracks.

    IBT:

    We see an Aztec Galley pass our Curragh in American waters.
    Barinas: Barracks-Spear
    Three Banana: Temple-Barracks

    Turn 1:

    The Coro Workers move to Dont Chop Yur Love Away and start mining the hill.
    The [1] Warrior discovers a Whale in the eventual city radius.
    Caracas: Worker-Settler

    Turn 5:
    Curragh reaches the Bering Strait!
    Coro: Spear-Spear
    One Banana: Barracks-Spear
    Turn 6:
    Found Whaledreams in spot [1], narrowly edging out a Brazilian poacher settler-pair It starts a Temple.
    Lit->Math; Dont Chop Yur Love Away switches to GLib; due in 10.
    Caracas: Settler-Worker
    Turn 7:
    Join first Worker to GLib city.
    Barinas: Spear-Warrior (for Sword upgrade; we could also switch to Archer or another Spear if needed)
    Turn 8:
    Found Panama a bit SE from the real canal :D
    Join two more Workers to GLib city; GLib due in 6.
    Caracas: Workers
    America makes an embassy with us.
    Turn 9: We meet Russia. She's got 632 gold, all the techs except Lit, and 19 cities.
    Turn 10: GLib is due in 4 turns.
     

    Attached Files:

  19. Northern Pike

    Northern Pike Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2003
    Messages:
    6,673
    It's good to have our first Eurasian contact so quickly. :goodjob:

    I've got it.
     
  20. LKendter

    LKendter Exterminate, exterminate, exterminate!!! Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2001
    Messages:
    18,437
    With 4 turns to go the odds look good for the Great Library gambit.
    Glad to see contacts are beginning. Russia tends to be strong, but I hope we will meet a couple of backwards civs at some point for tech trading since the Great Library doesn’t last forever.

    The first free embassy was a nice bonus. We don't get a lot, but I prefer the AI spend the cash. ;)

    ROSTER:

    LKendter
    Elephantium
    Northern Pike (up) - and got it.
    Greebley (on deck)
    Room for one more
     

Share This Page