LK21 - Japan, always War.

[Dragoten]

OFF TOPIC:


Thanks for clearing that up for me...

 

[LKendter]

Well it DOES exist - Iron.

Veii missed it by ONE square -
However, the location is VERY dangerous for us.
I suggest avoiding grabbing the Iron too fast.
Build cities toward that zone first.

 

[LKendter]

Pre-turn
I don't know why we start Colossus - City has 2 lousy shields - Change to spearman for city defense.
20% luxuries let's us fire enterainers - We need producation above all.

510 BC - Kill a Roman spearman.
490 BC - Where are the Roman troops?
470 BC - See 490BC - They better not wait to long, we are recover hp.
450 BC - I have better luck, dead Roman Archer - learn the exact location of Veii.
Check trading screen - learn that the Greeks, Babylon, and Egypt are on this continent. We are behind in tech by Masonry, Philosphy, Literature, Map Making. There are 6 total Roman
cities. They don't have Iron. Even though we can't have peace, still a usefull knowledge tool.
430 BC - All these rivers are nice for trade - but, I can't wait for Engineering.
410 BC - Nagaski founded - one immediate game - two more with temple, temple started.
Our first Roman slaves start building a road by Izumo.
390 BC - America shows up - OH NO - 2 warriors.
I find one of the demon archers - dead horseman on offense.
OUCH - Elite horseman drops spearman to 1 hp, then loses 3 hp and dies.
2nd attacks - [dance] We get Tojo - Oh, cumae destroyed in the process.
That archer is truely demonic - another horseman dies trying to kill it.
370 BC - Despite 20% luxuries - Edo goes unhappy - problem is lack of road for revenue.
Our leader heading back with two horseman for escorts.
The archer from h... is finally dead.
Our regular horseman frags a barb camp - plus $25 - now veteran.
American warrior attacks out spearman - we lose 2 hp - he dies.
Palace expansion - front of the palace looks nice.
350 BC - We kill the other warrior. Oh no - a third American warrior.
330 BC - Emperor Lee slams dinner - back to war soon.
310 BC - ARGGGGGGGGGG - Rome lands a horseman by Osaka - Our new Kyoto horseman attacks and LOSES.
Waste shields - switch Osaka to spearman are pray. Only hope - horseman took hp of damage.
Attack another American warrior - Japan 3, America 0.
Roman horseman attacks our horseman - and promote use to elite.
The Roman horseman by Osaka attacks - and fails - heart beat returning to normal.
Kagoshima starts - The Great Library.
290 BC - Tojo slam dunks - The Great Library.
Our warrior counter attacks the horse - and kills it
First crisis is survived.
We will have no choice by contact with Egypt shortly - they have a warrior by Veii.
Make that Japan 4, America 0 - killed an American archer.
Elite horseman attacks Veii - Dead Spearman.
Another elite horseman attacks - dead spearman, Veii destroyoed - $17 plundered.
Yokohama formed - the whale city with temple - temple ordered first.
I have to check - but I think I see a sliver of Iron by Veii.
Most of our attack forces needs rest - badly.
The Great Library completes - No techs yet
Egypt, America are producing the Great Wall
Some people called the Egyptians send a Diplomat to our capital -
They want to sell us useless technology - We do get a map of there territory, however then won't sell us a map of the known world - The Emperor is very annoyed by this and declares WAR.
The FP is offered to be built.
What a turn.
270 BC - Wahoo - Roman settler / spearman spotted.
Nagasaki on our road net.
Shimonoseki is formed.
OK the GL is not defective - Masonry, Math, Philosphy, Code of Laws, MapMaking, Polytheism,

Construction.
China completes the Great Wall.
250 BC - What is with our luck and Spearman / Settler pairs? We fail again.
Science to 10% - let's milk the library while we can for cash.
230 BC - Our archer attacks the Spearman / Settle pair - more workers
First dead Egyptian - a warrior.
America gets it's first kill - an archer.
210 BC - American warrior fights what? A barb? I love watching one side of a battle.
170 BC - Elite Horseman attacks American Spearman - just a dead spearman.
Elite Horseman losses 3 hp attack another Demon Roman Archer.
Elite horseman kills an American archer.
Warrior vs. Warrior - American losses - we have 1 hp.
Barb horseman dies attacking our horseman.
I found the source of regular troops - Edo.
150 BC - Matsuyama is formed.

Summary - Don't attempt to build any wonders except for leader rushed.
Getting defenses have improved - cities have spearman - still need a second.

Keep the 2 horseman behind our lines fortified - I want defense against another raid.
We could have had Osaka razed - Leave the troops fortified by Osaka.

Don't bother with science reasearch until the great library is useless - cash reserve will be important under Monarchy.

Dot map below -
1 - Secure a second source of horses - I don't think our source will get pillaged, but better to

play it paranoid.
2 - This city along with city #1 will provide a nice choke point for land troops coming at us.
3 - Two cows - I know this one is packed tight, but I want secure lines to the Iron.
4 - Iron - need I say more?
The number order is my suggested building order.
cities #3 and #4 build temple first - wide culture borders are good for defense!
Red lines is suggest road net - Should be safe.

Next leader - I don't know what to do with another leader right now.
The FP should wait for at least city #4 - Monarchy will extend the usefull range of the Capital.

Based on how long this took -
15 turn max, expect it to drop to 10 soon.
This game is to intense for rushed moves

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/LK21-150BC.zip

LKendter
Arizona_Steve (currently playing) <<<
Readylander (up next)
Rowain deWolf
Dark Sheer

 

[Arizona_Steve]

I'm taking my girlfriend out tonight though, so will probably make a couple of turns before I go to sleep and finish it off tomorrow morning.

Looks like I'll need to take some time to optimize attack sequences.

 

[LKendter]

Well this big optimization -
right click -
selecte elites first.

GL helped big time with the Library -
next goal -
Horseman army?

We do want Heroic epic -
Even small wonders are worth a rush.


Another important thought
If a leader will rush something this turn -
make that your first action -
search for the leader -
We can only have 1 leader at a time.
The faster we use them, the faster we get another.

Also, try to use the leader in a town that starts something that turn - that was how I chose the location of the Library!

If not sure to do with a leader, pause the game, and poll the other players. Leaders from all of the wars are key for this game.

After all - 1 leader saved us in the tech war until the middle ages.

 

[Arizona_Steve]

Inherited turn:
Following on from Lee, it looks like I have three things to do;
(1) Get another four cities in per Lee's dot (cross??) map, and set up a road network for them.
(2) Get another leader and form a horseman army. Win battle, build heroic epic.
(3) Kick the cr*p out of everyone else's units.

We have an awful lot of temples being built, one settler, the rest horsemen. Our cities are poorly defended, I see at least one that has a horseman as a defender. There are a number of troops in the yellow and red. I will fortify those on hills if they survive the AI rounds.

Production is EVERYTHING here. I see Kyoto has two shielded grasslands in it's boundaries that have not been mined. We MUST optimize production and to do that we need workers.

Secondly, I feel the need to be able to rush projects WITHOUT THE USE OF POPULATION is vital. We need to get those temples up RIGHT NOW, so that our cities can crank out troops. There is nothing I can do to speed up research of Monarchy, and it rarely pops out of the Great Library until much later. We're running 20% luxuries, so securing the Roman dyes is of vital importance.

I turn science down to 0%, and get a scientist in Izumo. Now running at +20 gold per turn. Looks like we need some marketplaces soon.

Then I press the space bar. Units move, nothing else happens.

(1) 130BC
Barb camp dispersed, another 25 gold.
Some of our cities still have warriors, I send them out towards the front.

(2) 110BC
I start moving spearman towards our border cities, leaving one spearman per "behind the lines" city.

(3) 90BC
Oh crap. An Egyptian swordsman appears.

(4) 70BC
Romans plop down Veii next to the iron. It will take a couple of turns to move horsemen into position, so that I don't attack across the river.

(5) 50BC
Not as bad as I thought. Move a horsie across the river, attack, Veii is no more.
Caesar wants an audience. I tell him to go away.

(6) 30BC
I attack the Egyptian swordsman with an elite horsie. He retreats.

(7) 10BC
A veteran horsie kills that damn swordsman Now to advance on the next Roman city.
Switch Tokyo to zero growth to stave off revolts.

(8) 10AD
Millenium celebrations across the lands.
First settler appears in Edo. I have a another two being built.

(9) 30AD
Lincoln wants to talk. I send the wrinkled git away.
Second and third settlers appear at Kyoto and Munith. I put both cities back to horsie production.
Second Egyption sword appears next to our horsies, just as I'm about to attack the mystery Roman city.

(10) 50AD
Our first casualty - our spearman is killed by that Egyptian swordsman, but manages to leave him in the red.

(11) 70AD
The swordsman dies, but takes out our archer before being killed by a regular(??) horsie.

(12) 90AD
Damn Americans have swordsmen roaming around too.
Egyption swordsman stack (3 units) appears. Fortunately I have fortified warriors at strategic positions to give us advance warning of such events.

(13) 110AD
I decide against further attacks on Pisae. They have at least two spearmen fortified there. Instead, the Egyption swordsman threat needs to be dealt with. Horsemen heading that way to intercept.
We get Monarchy from the Great Library. A rarity, but in this case, an extremely good thing! I revolt immediately. Six cities go into disorder, I hire entertainers.

(14) 130AD
We are now a monarchy.
Sapporo founded at location #2. We already have a road in place.
Egypt starts the Hanging Gardens. I love wasted AI shields.

(15) 150AD
The Egyption swordsman stack is dead at the loss of one veteran horsie. Even though I attack with elites where possible, we still get no leaders. There is an American swordsman fortified in the mountains.
Before passing the game over, I reoptimize our cities.


Notes:
We have two settlers by Matsuyama to fill in cities #1 and #3. I have been roading out towards #1. There are extra spearmen in the border cities that can be moved to garrison our new cities.
Egypt and America are sending swordsmen against us now. Take care of our horsies.

File: LK21-150AD.zip

 

[LKendter]

1 - We do need to keep expanding - glad to see Sapporo built.
Plus I see another settler near Izumo - The dye city will do wonders for happiness - and firing entertainers.

2 -"We MUST optimize production and to do that we need workers." I agree Arizona_Steve here. Hopefully we can spot a spearman / settler pair that we can beat! Slave labor is our key here.

3 - I know, my barracks nag gets tiresome - Edo, Yokohama, Nagasaki and Shimonoseki are building regular horseman
With patch 1.17 - vet units have a better chance of retreating - barracks are more imporrtant then ever.

4 - We over $700 in cash - let us use that money NOW. Rush some barracks and other city improvements.




LKendter
Arizona_Steve
Readylander (currently playing) <<<
Rowain deWolf (up next)
Dark Sheer

 

[Readylander]

I've got the game. I have spring-time stuff to do around the house today plus I have to finish the taxes. Hopefully I can get my turns done tonight sometime.

 

[Readylander]

Mostly good news, no terrible news. The good news: WE HAVE IRON, we have 4 new cities, we have two new techs, we have more workers and we have more elite troops. The not so good news: We met the Babylonians and Greeks and we didn't get any great leaders.

After reading all the notes since my last play and reveiwing the game as I got it, my initial thoughts:
1) We need more workers and we need to better allocate the workers we have. Many of our main production cities need improvements. Edo was intended to be a settler/worker factory and with a little irrigation it will be that. We have too many workers near the frontlines our main production cities are higher priority due to their lower corruption/waste and the workers are succeptible to capture by our foes. I will leave enough to build roads but the rest will head back towards our main productive cities.
2) We need some barracks. As lkendter noted, there are cities building regular units. I will change these before ending the first turn.
3) We need to expand. There is a city site between Kyoto, Osaka, Munith and Kagoshima that has not yet been founded. This is an especially important site due to its proximity to our capital and therefore low corruption/waste. The existing settlers shall continue their march south and secure the dyes and work towards the iron. I shall build some settlers and hopefully found 4 cities on my turn.
4) We should get Currency from the GL next turn. Some marketplaces in low corruption cities would do nice things for our revenue.
5) Some great leaders would be nice. I will try my darndest to get us some GL's.
6) Our offensive frontline seems to have overstretched its support. I plan to fight off approaching units and try to get us some GL but I won't be attacking any more cities until we have some way to get our units to them more quickly then we currently can.

Preturn: Cities without barracks that are building troops:
Edo: switched to settler, this will be the settler for site near our capital, 3 turns to complete.
Yokohama: switched to barracks, 2 turns.
Nagasaki: switched to settler, this should secure the iron, 5 turns to complete.
Shimonoseki: switched to barracks, 5 turns.
Sapporo: switched to temple and rushed at cost of 116 gold. This will help protect our chokepoint.

Scientist in Satsuma put back to real work. Entertainer in Tokyo converted to scientist.

(1) 170AD - American swordsman on mountain attacks elite horseman who retreats. We get Currency from the GL. I decide to go for Feudalism next due to Sun Tzu's although what we get next will probably be determined by the GL. We get Monotheism from the GL, see I told ya. An Egyptian galley is spotted travelling northward along our coast. Sapporo starts a barracks after completing its temple. Elite horseman takes out the American swordsman who attacked from the mountain. Another horse takes out a swordman.
(2) 190AD - An Egyptian swordsman kills one of our vet horseman, an American swordsman causes on of our horseman to retreat. An elite horseman takes an American swordsman on the mountain and two other horseman join him on the mountain, this is a key place at this point for observation. Workers move onto the dyes so there will be a road hopefully when the dye city is founded in a few turns.
(3) 210AD - A Roman horseman approaches Sapporo. A recently completed spearman approaching the front lines joins the existing spearman in defending Sapporo. A horseman takes out an Egyptian archer.
(4) 230AD - Roman horseman promotes one of our Sapporo speaman to elite. Kyoto begins our first marketplace. The Americans begin The Hanging Gardens.
(5) 250AD - Nagasaki completes settler and begins barracks. Dye City is founded and our first luxuries are hooked up!! A temple is started to further protect our chokepoint. Entertainment tax is lowered to zero due to the dyes. With no science (one scientist) and no entertainment we are only making 18 gpt. We need workers and marketplaces! An American spearman is taken out at the cost of one horseman. An Egyptian spearman is taken out and a horseman is promoted to elite.
(6) 260AD - An American swordsman and spearman are taken out by horseman without promotion. Okamoto, the site near our capital is founded, a worker is started.
(7) 270AD - An American swordsman makes an elite horseman retreat. An elite horseman takes out an American swordsman. It takes two horseman, but we take out an Egyptian swordsman with no loses. A horseman takes out an American spearman and is promoted to elite. Temple is rushed in Dye City.
(8) 280AD - An Egyptian swordsman attacks one of our horseman sitting on the iron site and dies. Dye City finishes its temple and starts a worker. An elite horseman kills an Egyptian swordsman and captures two workers. We also meet the Babylons, a spearman/settler pair. They are even with us in techs, have 20 cities, know the Greeks and have iron, horses and furs. The only thing we can demand from them is their wm, (communication with Greeks would be stupid to ask for), and they refuse so war is declared (well it would have been anyway but....). We meet them in the jungle and have no troops that can attack immediately. A vet horseman takes an Egyptian spearman. An elite horseman takes an Egyptian swordsman. Hakodate is founded on site #3. One more city and we have iron!! Construction of a temple is started.
(9) 290AD - Two American swordsman attack, our elite horseman retreats, our vet horseman is lost. Edo completes its worker and starts a settler. This settler is intended for the far northwestern corner of our peninsula. A horseman attacks the Bab spearman/settler and we get two more slave laborers. We lose a horseman to an American swordsman.
(10) 300AD - A Roman archer attacks a warrior outside Pisae and loses. The American swordsman that beat us last time killed the horseman and the two captured Bab workers. We are getting very close to having iron!
(11) 310AD - An American swordsman makes one of our elite horseman retreat. Kagoshima starts marketplace. Kagoshima is our biggest gold producing city, it will take awhile to build the marketplace, but it should be worth it. We initally lose a vet horseman trying to take a Roman spearman/settler pair but the second one does the trick. The pesky American swordsman is finally killed off by a vet horseman. Temple is rushed in Hakodate. Vet horseman is promoted to elite after taking out Bab archer. A Roman galley is headed north up our coast. The Egyptian galley has been wandering between Osaka and Edo for the last 8 turns or so.
(12) 320AD - We lose a warrior and a horseman to two Egyptian swordsman outside Pisae. Iron City is founded, temple is started. Two elite horseman kill two American swordsman.
(13) 330AD - The Egyptians want to talk, I refuse. Our warrior outside Pisae defends against the two swordsman. Elite horseman takes out Bab archer. Temple rushed in Iron City. One horseman lost, two injured prior to taking out Roman spearman on mountain outside Iron City.
(14) 340AD - Iron City completes temple, starts barracks.
(15) 350AD - THE IRON IS HOOKED UP!! Kyoto completes marketplace, starts spearmanl. A Greek warrior is sighted. The Greeks are equal with us in techs and resources. They have 13 cities. The only things we can demand are their wm and a worker. They don't accept our demands and war is declared. We kill their warrior. Rush production of barracks in Iron City. There are 3 stacks of foreign troops just south of Dye City and Hakodate: One tile south of the western most dye are Egyptians, 2 regular swordsman, 1 regular spearman and a settler, one tile south of the eastern dye are a veteran and regular American swordsman, one tile to their east is a regular American swordsman. Due to their placement and the placement of our troops I have to pull back our troops or risk almost certain death for some of our troops on counterattack.

Be careful of unhappiness. Entertainment tax is at zero to maximize income but some cities are on the edge of revolt. I tried to conserve our treasury for upgrading our horseman to samurai when they become available. The settler under production in Edo was intended for the northwest corner of our peninsula where the spearman currently is. There are now 3 foreign galleys around our shores. I have ended up with all three of our defending horsemen on our western shore, some of these should be moved towards the east. Our southern workers are on the mountain just outside Iron City with the intent that they will build a road that will get us our troops to Pisae quicker.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/LK21-350AD.zip

 

[LKendter]

If we get a leader -
FP in the Iron city -
We need more production NOW!

LKendter
Arizona_Steve
Readylander
Rowain deWolf (currently playing) <<<
Dark Sheer (up next)

 

[Rowain deWolf]

I wonder is it really better to build FP now (with Leader) or build an Army and Heroic to get more leaders later?

Looking at Arathorns game they are getting nearly 3 leaders every 10turns or so .


Just curious what the opinions are on this matter and why.

When i get home from work i'll play.

Rowain

PS: Looks like we have Babs, Greek, America, Egypt,Rome on our Continent. Thats great no Chinese-Riders We will have the best Unit for a long time

 

[LKendter]

Well the question is hard to answer -
I am heading to work in 2 minutes, can't look at board -

How are we doing with military -
If you are just holding our own -
We need more units ASAP -
FP would help there.

We can't win without enough units.


The good news - we are still adding cities
The next goal with cities - still packed tightly -
ring around the Iron source -
Best iron defense would be a wall of cities.

 

[TheWatcher]

Samurai aren't that far away

Don't trap 3 horseman in an army.

Watching to see what happens next.

 

[Rowain deWolf]

Currently playing but maybe i'll finish it tomorrow

Rowain

 

[LKendter]

Well we are holding our own so far

Spare horses for safety.
Decent worker force improving the core cities.


Next goals -
Short term -
Ambush the stack of 2 swords, 1 spear, 1 settler -
We can always use more free labor.
Capture Pisae - Flip danger almost zero.

Long term - ring of cities around Iron city - that should safeguard it for all time.

Weakness - We need to know more of the map around Iron City.
Need to squeeze some infastruce in.
Lack of cash to upgrade all spearman to pikeman and horses to samurai.

Good luck to Rowain deWolf - get more leaders

 

[Rowain deWolf]

Well i played and finished before Lee posted so i razed Pisae instead of capturing but we did get a Leader and i rushed Fp in Iron-city Getting the Leader was tough work and costed a lot of Elite horses but then for every elite lost a vet got promoted so i guess we have now as many elite as before my turn.

The Egypt founded Lisht with theyr Settler before my first turn

some Highlights :

380 AD: Pisae gets razed and two slaves send back to Iron-city
390 AD: Moscow completes Hanging Gardens
400 AD: Greek starts Lighthouse, a Settler/Hoplite pair seen in the western plains (currently on a hill) two elite Horses wait for them to step on the plains
Ise founded in our northwest as readylander suggested.

420 AD:Hoplite/Settler step out on the plains, Horses attack and :

 

[Rowain deWolf]

Leader sent to Ironcity; slaves sent to nearest town. the barb attacks our warrrior and dies without doing any damage
An egypt galley lands a Settler/spear on the northern coastof this plains and founds Edfu two turns later .

430 AD: Republic drops out of the GL (only tech during my turn)

440 AD: A Barbcamp gets dispersed and we earn 25 gold
450 AD: Babylon finishes Collossus, Leader reaches Iron city where i rushed a Cata the turn before and rushes FP.

470 AD: Tokyo fin Cathedral

480 AD/490 AD: Edfu and Veii(near old Pisae-site) get autorazed

Additional Comments:

i build/ordered some Courthouses, Marketplaces in our Mainland and a lot of Military(mostly Horses). Built two Settlers which are on their way south. One already accompanied with a Spear.
Slaves near Ironcity are clearing Jungle (guarded by a Spear)

Military:
Rome has send no troops in all the 15 turns . Their capital is north of Ironcity and guarded with at least 3 Spears. They have only 2 or 3 Citys left so they are nearly dead.
America: send every now and then a Pair of regular Swords which are usually toast as soon as they leave the forest and step on the plains
Egypt: once a stack of three Chariots and two swords arrived but they didn't last long. no real SoD till now but some troops near Ironcity now.
Greek one Sword every now and then, mostly on the western plains.
Babylon: No military from Babylon has been sighted.

Galleys have been rounding our Mainland during all my turns but no landing has occured.

Rowain

Edit: i left 1 Horse unmoved

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/LK21-500AD.zip

 

[Dark Sheer]

I will post the summary as soon as possible.

 

[Dark Sheer]

500AD(0) - Pre-turn.
510AD(1) - Killed 2 regular egyptian swordsman. No promotion for our horse units.
520AD(2) - Killed 2 regular American swordsman. 1 Swordsman die the other become elite with no lost of hp. Killed 1 egyptian spearman and captured a settler.
530AD(3) - Obtained Feudalism from GL. Going for Chivalry next. Smolensk completed Great Lighthouse. Upgrade almost all of our Spearman into Pikeman. Lisht captured at size 1.
540AD(4) - Killed more regular egyptian troops.
550AD(5) - Killed more regular egyptian troops. Still no Leader in sight.
560AD(6) - Killed 2 regular Greek swordsman. Clear a Barbarian camp for 25gp. Toyama founded near Rome.
570AD(7) - Babylonian unit finally appeared near Lisht. A stack of 2 regular swordsman and 1 elite warrior.
580AD(8) - Fukushima founded near Dye City. Again killed off a number of units with our elite horseman and swordsman and no Leader!
590AD(9) - Eretria destroyed. Killing more enemy troops near Lisht.
600AD(10) - A stack of American swordsman has been moving between Lisht and Iron City for ages.
610AD(11) - In the middle of whacking a stack of Greek regular swordsman a Leader appear!
620AD(12) - Art of War rushed in Dye City (we need every barrack we can get!). Continue to fight a defensive war.
630AD(13) - Art of War completed in Dye City.
640AD(14) - Continue to fight a defensive war.
650AD(15) - Captured a Babylonian settler. Captured an American settler. Finally clear off a stack of 7 american swordsman near Dye City.
670AD(16) - All American troops in Japan cleared.
680AD(17) -
690AD(18) - Japanese troops march towards Pithom. Discover Theology via Great Library.
700AD(19) - As we were clearing Egyptian troops another Leader appear! Woohoo! Captured a Roman settler.
710AD(20) - Elite Swordsman Army build in Lisht. First battle won by the Army! Pithom captured at size 1. Another Leader appear as we clear more Egyptian troops! YES!

I leave the Leader with 1 more move left in Lisht and let the next Shogun decide what to do with it. Of course we can use it to rush Sistine Chapel. There are a number of Horseman fortified in both Fukushima & Dye City which the next Shogun can use pre-turn. Good luck!

Here is the savegame.

 

[Rowain deWolf]

Hurray 3 Leaders in 15 turns thats great

I would prefer to use the Leader to rush Heroic. With that build we shall have a Leader again when Sistine gets possible


Rowain