Stapel
FIAT 850 coupé
I am playing!
LK62 - Austria, Demigod, Fast Moving Civ
- Thread starter LKendter
- Start date
Stapel
FIAT 850 coupé
The game jsut crashed twice. I am using 1.15.
Should I upgrade?
Should I upgrade?
Stapel
FIAT 850 coupé
The 1060 AD save
I lost my reports....
So here comes a fine summary:
All our Hussars were lined up and waiting for the end of peace. Then they stormed into England.
The English conducted some pathetic counter attacks. Not too bad. What is worse: During the whole campaign, 4 cities flipped back. That is not so bad in itself, as our glorious army was able to retake all of them immediately, but one of our armies flipped away.
Furthermore, we suffered a rise in WW, which caused almost every single city to riot.
Our empire is happy now. All englsih citizens do not longer dream of England, apart from 2 resistors.
Most of our core cities are connected by RR.
We did not trade coal with the Indians, as they had an embargo agaisnst us with the Ottomans. It ended a turn ago.
We have 5 turns left , before we can kill the Portuguese. I wouldn't be too surprised if the next player crushes the Portuguese in one strike. The end is near! It was pleasure to play in this SG!
I lost my reports....
So here comes a fine summary:
All our Hussars were lined up and waiting for the end of peace. Then they stormed into England.
The English conducted some pathetic counter attacks. Not too bad. What is worse: During the whole campaign, 4 cities flipped back. That is not so bad in itself, as our glorious army was able to retake all of them immediately, but one of our armies flipped away.
Furthermore, we suffered a rise in WW, which caused almost every single city to riot.
Our empire is happy now. All englsih citizens do not longer dream of England, apart from 2 resistors.
Most of our core cities are connected by RR.
We did not trade coal with the Indians, as they had an embargo agaisnst us with the Ottomans. It ended a turn ago.
We have 5 turns left , before we can kill the Portuguese. I wouldn't be too surprised if the next player crushes the Portuguese in one strike. The end is near! It was pleasure to play in this SG!
Aggie
Deity
Looks like I'm right in saying that I won't be playing anymore. Good work Stapel 
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 20,064
Furthermore, we suffered a rise in WW, which caused almost every single city to riot
Scroll ahead is perfectly valid in LK games. In the future please zoom in and stop the riots in the other cities.
LKendter (currently playing)
The earliest I can play is late Sunday, so I will be pushing my 48 hour rule.
Grimjack (on deck)
Aggie
Meldor
Stapel
Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Don't forget the variant rules:
Speed one military units may never leave our cultural borders.
This includes any warriors that we build.
There is a good reason for no barbs.
Speed one military units may never form armies.
We may not build offensive (attack > defense) speed one units - swords, mdi,
etc.
Scroll ahead is perfectly valid in LK games. In the future please zoom in and stop the riots in the other cities.
LKendter (currently playing)
The earliest I can play is late Sunday, so I will be pushing my 48 hour rule.
Grimjack (on deck)
Aggie
Meldor
Stapel
Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Don't forget the variant rules:
Speed one military units may never leave our cultural borders.
This includes any warriors that we build.
There is a good reason for no barbs.
Speed one military units may never form armies.
We may not build offensive (attack > defense) speed one units - swords, mdi,
etc.
meldor
Deity
Can we assume from your comments that you took out the entire English lands?
Aggie
Deity
Yes, England is gone. But Portugal will be a tougher nut to crack. They have Nationalism and rifles. Otoh: we have 31 Hussars (and 2 Hussar armies).
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 20,064
How did we get a vet Pikemen in Villach? The city has no barracks, and is not linked to any other city culturally. 1060 AD (pre-turn)
The talk was war in 5 with Portugal and the game wrapping quickly. I will see, but it will depend on how fast I can get my objectives done.My first objective will be getting more our defenses fixed and to get the needed culture borders expanded. I shift the military builds to muskets to get every city with at least a token defender. I would like the border cities even stronger. I rush a few workers to help with railing, and a few key temples.
The other major problem is the number of English cities still in resistance. Some of them have no military to even quell the resistance - London has 6 of 6 resisting and no military to quell it. I can't rush the critical border town temples.
(IT) I get some good news as I see the quelling resistance message in a few of the English towns.
1070 AD
(IT) Resistance continues to end in the English cities.
1090 AD
I have to raise the luxury tax to 20% temporarily. Once York's border expands in 3 turns we will have our own fur source.
1120 AD
I drop the luxury tax back down to 10%. The jungle is gone and I finally have the link to Liverpool being railed.
Summary:
Our percent of world went from 38% to 41% from my first temple rushes. We can rush a temple a turn and should keep doing so. We will get another several percentage points just from that.
I got the stability I wanted - most cities have muskets to defend, and the rails extend all the way into England.
I have no question that this was my final turn. We are ready to pound Portugal without the two-front war causing us major headaches. Their 9 cities with expanded borders will put us very close.
LKendter
Grimjack (currently playing)
Aggie (on deck)
Meldor
Stapel
Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Don't forget the variant rules:
Speed one military units may never leave our cultural borders.
This includes any warriors that we build.
There is a good reason for no barbs.
Speed one military units may never form armies.
We may not build any offensive (attack > defense) speed one units - swords, mdi,
etc.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/LK62-1150AD.zip
Aggie
Deity
We have 15 more turns peace with the Ottomans? I am sure that they will have infantry by then. This will make things THAT much harder. Imho Portugal could be mopped up in 5 turns at the most allowing us to focus on the Ottomans after that. Now we have to hope that Osman declares on us when we demand him to leave.Maybe we should conquer India instead (after Portugal). Looks like we can get 66% of land this way as well.
EDIT: But our armies are to big to be carried by ships
Partial update.
LK62, the age of Hussars.
1150AD Wow, the AIs are way ahead of us in techs. For some reason I do not think it matters overly much. We will divide and conquer.
I fire up a war with the Portugese since LKendter has been so kind as to position troops in good places for such an adventure.
It may get a bit bloody, since we cannot use artillery to soften the targets. I am not even vertain we may build artillery to defend ourself with, since they have a higher attack than defense and is movement 1.
Lagos defended by two muskets is an easy snack for an army and two Hussars. ( Yes, to my great sorrow, a regular musket defeated a veteran Hussar. )
Oporto has a vet rifleman on top, but our army makes short work of him, and his regular friend. Then Alvarez leads a particularly skillful charge and defeats a veteran musketman company, and as a thank you, he is made commander of his own Hussar Army.
Just to isolate the Portugese, I sign up Ottomans against him for Furs. He even pays 44 gold for that pleasure.
Gandhi joins for Ivory and 3 gpt.
We are strong compared to Portugal, so I suspect they will melt away quickly. Especially considering they have no horses that I can see.
IBT: The Portugese manage to scare up a knight that kills one of our Hussars. Some longbows are severely wounded as they travel around one of our armies.
1160AD: Time to kill POrtugese. Sao Paolo in the Jungle falls. Lose a Hussar in the battle of Braga. Braga was defended by three riflemen and a longbow. ( Took the top rifle with our Army. )
Coimbra falls to our new army. I spot two ships on the inland sea, heading for shores unknown. I will have to station a hussar or two as shore patrol in our core.
Our western army capture Guinamares guarded by three riflemen. In a fluke, a longbow managed to retreat a hussar, leaving that hussar exposed to the same longbow.
I kill off the Longbows with my reserve troops. I also rush two temples.
IBT: No counterattacks. The Portugese turn back with their chips, and land a longbow/medieval pair on a hill with a view over the front.
1170 Evora falls to our might, and Portuhal is reduced to a 2CC. The life expectancy has dropped sharply though for Henry, and he is not expected to last the century.
We capture Lisbon this turn without losses, and only two retreats.
IBT: Now I know where all of POrtugals defenders went. They were loaded on ships, and this turn they are landed on various shores.
1180 Time to find Henrys last hiding place. Ottomans have some 30 Sipahis in our territory. They are wonderfully exposed, but I will have to keep watch on them only.
In a lengthy siege, Sagres falls to a regular Hussar. We are out of Portugese. I will regroup in defensive patterns, although should Ottos sneak attack, we will take a lot of initial losses.
I am debating rushing culture or ships, but in the end decide on culture.
1190 Railing and healing. Start to suppress resistance with our troops.
1200 I will stop here for the night. We are at 52% lanmdmass right now, and I do not think that would be enough. We have some 30 Sipahis, and 10 riflemen of the Ottomans wandering around inside our borders. There is no way we can take them all out before losing a couple of sacrifical cities.
I will build a few boats, so we can ship our troops across the sea to meet up with the elephants. Hopefully I will have rushed four ships and placed them in position for next player to see what he can do about the indian menace.
LK62, the age of Hussars.
1150AD Wow, the AIs are way ahead of us in techs. For some reason I do not think it matters overly much. We will divide and conquer.
I fire up a war with the Portugese since LKendter has been so kind as to position troops in good places for such an adventure.
It may get a bit bloody, since we cannot use artillery to soften the targets. I am not even vertain we may build artillery to defend ourself with, since they have a higher attack than defense and is movement 1.
Lagos defended by two muskets is an easy snack for an army and two Hussars. ( Yes, to my great sorrow, a regular musket defeated a veteran Hussar. )
Oporto has a vet rifleman on top, but our army makes short work of him, and his regular friend. Then Alvarez leads a particularly skillful charge and defeats a veteran musketman company, and as a thank you, he is made commander of his own Hussar Army.
Just to isolate the Portugese, I sign up Ottomans against him for Furs. He even pays 44 gold for that pleasure.
Gandhi joins for Ivory and 3 gpt.
We are strong compared to Portugal, so I suspect they will melt away quickly. Especially considering they have no horses that I can see.
IBT: The Portugese manage to scare up a knight that kills one of our Hussars. Some longbows are severely wounded as they travel around one of our armies.
1160AD: Time to kill POrtugese. Sao Paolo in the Jungle falls. Lose a Hussar in the battle of Braga. Braga was defended by three riflemen and a longbow. ( Took the top rifle with our Army. )
Coimbra falls to our new army. I spot two ships on the inland sea, heading for shores unknown. I will have to station a hussar or two as shore patrol in our core.
Our western army capture Guinamares guarded by three riflemen. In a fluke, a longbow managed to retreat a hussar, leaving that hussar exposed to the same longbow.
I kill off the Longbows with my reserve troops. I also rush two temples.
IBT: No counterattacks. The Portugese turn back with their chips, and land a longbow/medieval pair on a hill with a view over the front.
1170 Evora falls to our might, and Portuhal is reduced to a 2CC. The life expectancy has dropped sharply though for Henry, and he is not expected to last the century.
We capture Lisbon this turn without losses, and only two retreats.
IBT: Now I know where all of POrtugals defenders went. They were loaded on ships, and this turn they are landed on various shores.
1180 Time to find Henrys last hiding place. Ottomans have some 30 Sipahis in our territory. They are wonderfully exposed, but I will have to keep watch on them only.
In a lengthy siege, Sagres falls to a regular Hussar. We are out of Portugese. I will regroup in defensive patterns, although should Ottos sneak attack, we will take a lot of initial losses.
I am debating rushing culture or ships, but in the end decide on culture.
1190 Railing and healing. Start to suppress resistance with our troops.
1200 I will stop here for the night. We are at 52% lanmdmass right now, and I do not think that would be enough. We have some 30 Sipahis, and 10 riflemen of the Ottomans wandering around inside our borders. There is no way we can take them all out before losing a couple of sacrifical cities.
I will build a few boats, so we can ship our troops across the sea to meet up with the elephants. Hopefully I will have rushed four ships and placed them in position for next player to see what he can do about the indian menace.
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 20,064
Then Alvarez leads a particularly skillful charge and defeats a veteran musketman company, and as a thank you, he is made commander of his own Hussar Army.
Never argue with another army.
========================
I also rush two temples.
...
I am debating rushing culture or ships, but in the end decide on culture.
We can't get enough border expansions. Between the new cities, and temples continue to come on-line we keep inching closer.
========================
1180 We are out of Portugese.
Well they were weaker then I thought! However, I suspect the rail-net I finished helped.
Never argue with another army.
========================
I also rush two temples.
...
I am debating rushing culture or ships, but in the end decide on culture.
We can't get enough border expansions. Between the new cities, and temples continue to come on-line we keep inching closer.
========================
1180 We are out of Portugese.
Well they were weaker then I thought! However, I suspect the rail-net I finished helped.
The railnet was a necessity, or I wouldn't have been able to commit so many of our forces.
Having 50 workers rail to the new cities as they were captured sped up things considerably as well.
I am still debating with myself which of the three advantages is most precious to the human.
1) Manual worker control --
2) Rails -- You can use three units to defend your empire no matter how big
3) Artillery -- Mainly if you get that far, then the human is almost invincible to AI aggression.
Grimjack
Having 50 workers rail to the new cities as they were captured sped up things considerably as well.
I am still debating with myself which of the three advantages is most precious to the human.
1) Manual worker control --
2) Rails -- You can use three units to defend your empire no matter how big
3) Artillery -- Mainly if you get that far, then the human is almost invincible to AI aggression.
Grimjack
Stapel
FIAT 850 coupé
Good work!
I had the impression we we would be near a domination victory, after possesing all English and Portuguese lands. It seems 'near' is relative.
I had the impression we we would be near a domination victory, after possesing all English and Portuguese lands. It seems 'near' is relative.
We are only at 55% landmass. Population is somewhat elss, but with a few worker merges that could be rectified as long as Ottos do not get hospitals.
I think we may need to grab a city or two of the Indians in order to get the last coupld of land %.
I intend to rush 4 galleons as soon as the most critical temples are rushed. Then we could ferry over four armies which ought to be enough to hold a coastal mountain tile.
Then the armies will be used to grab a coastal city, which we could put another 15-16 Hussars into. We do have two settlers as well, but I do not think we could hold onto the land should we land the troops on the coastal hill.
HOwever, it will be next player that makes the actual invasion should we need to invade.
Grimjack
I think we may need to grab a city or two of the Indians in order to get the last coupld of land %.
I intend to rush 4 galleons as soon as the most critical temples are rushed. Then we could ferry over four armies which ought to be enough to hold a coastal mountain tile.
Then the armies will be used to grab a coastal city, which we could put another 15-16 Hussars into. We do have two settlers as well, but I do not think we could hold onto the land should we land the troops on the coastal hill.
HOwever, it will be next player that makes the actual invasion should we need to invade.
Grimjack
LK62, the age of Hussars.
1150AD Wow, the AIs are way ahead of us in techs. For some reason I do not think it matters overly much. We will divide and conquer.
I fire up a war with the Portugese since LKendter has been so kind as to position troops in good places for such an adventure.
It may get a bit bloody, since we cannot use artillery to soften the targets. I am not even vertain we may build artillery to defend ourself with, since they have a higher attack than defense and is movement 1.
Lagos defended by two muskets is an easy snack for an army and two Hussars. ( Yes, to my great sorrow, a regular musket defeated a veteran Hussar. )
Oporto has a vet rifleman on top, but our army makes short work of him, and his regular friend. Then Alvarez leads a particularly skillful charge and defeats a veteran musketman company, and as a thank you, he is made commander of his own Hussar Army.
Just to isolate the Portugese, I sign up Ottomans against him for Furs. He even pays 44 gold for that pleasure.
Gandhi joins for Ivory and 3 gpt.
We are strong compared to Portugal, so I suspect they will melt away quickly. Especially considering they have no horses that I can see.
IBT: The Portugese manage to scare up a knight that kills one of our Hussars. Some longbows are severely wounded as they travel around one of our armies.
1160AD: Time to kill POrtugese. Sao Paolo in the Jungle falls. Lose a Hussar in the battle of Braga. Braga was defended by three riflemen and a longbow. ( Took the top rifle with our Army. )
Coimbra falls to our new army. I spot two ships on the inland sea, heading for shores unknown. I will have to station a hussar or two as shore patrol in our core.
Our western army capture Guinamares guarded by three riflemen. In a fluke, a longbow managed to retreat a hussar, leaving that hussar exposed to the same longbow.
I kill off the Longbows with my reserve troops. I also rush two temples.
IBT: No counterattacks. The Portugese turn back with their chips, and land a longbow/medieval pair on a hill with a view over the front.
1170 Evora falls to our might, and Portuhal is reduced to a 2CC. The life expectancy has dropped sharply though for Henry, and he is not expected to last the century.
We capture Lisbon this turn without losses, and only two retreats.
IBT: Now I know where all of POrtugals defenders went. They were loaded on ships, and this turn they are landed on various shores.
1180 Time to find Henrys last hiding place. Ottomans have some 30 Sipahis in our territory. They are wonderfully exposed, but I will have to keep watch on them only.
In a lengthy siege, Sagres falls to a regular Hussar. We are out of Portugese. I will regroup in defensive patterns, although should Ottos sneak attack, we will take a lot of initial losses.
I am debating rushing culture or ships, but in the end decide on culture.
1190 Railing and healing. Start to suppress resistance with our troops.
1200 I will stop here for the night. We are at 52% lanmdmass right now, and I do not think that would be enough. We have some 30 Sipahis, and 10 riflemen of the Ottomans wandering around inside our borders. There is no way we can take them all out before losing a couple of sacrifical cities.
I will build a few boats, so we can ship our troops across the sea to meet up with the elephants. Hopefully I will have rushed four ships and placed them in position for next player to see what he can do about the indian menace.
1210 I think long and hard about it, but I think victory will be sped up by it, so I buy industrialization from Ottomans for two luxes and 80 gpt. Ottomans are not close to victory, so it does not really matter much if we give them some more resources. I will concentrate on culture, and prepare for naval assault upon India.
India is only annoyed at us, so I will not sign deals with them in case they do NOT go to war against us when someone later asks them to leave.
1220 I withdraw most of oru railing crew back into the core, and start building factories in our five largest cities. I have no money to rush factories, as I still need to rush culture before some AI try to squeeze a settler into the gaps inside former Portugal.
1230 Hohumhohum. Railnet is now complete, and two core cities are halfway railed, in preparation for optimization. I will rush galleons next turn, and ask India to leave.
1240 To my surprise, India is willing to leave our territory when we demand he do so. We are of course strong compared to him. Very well, I can then leave the decision up to next player.
1250 I have spread out our Hussars along the Ottoman border. I have also left you with a treasury, which you can decide yourself on how you want to use it.
Spying Nationalism from the Indian, rushing culture, or rushing galleons and grab some more land from the Indians would all be worthwhile.
If you are feeling particularly hostile, prepare for a war against Ottomans. It will likely be against infantry though, so I would not recommend that.
If you go to war against the Indians, be sure to involve the Ottomans. We could do with a lot less Sipahis on our continent. There are quite a lot of them around Antium.
Most of the Sipahis are of course exposed right now, and you could demand Ottos leave, and catch a lot of them. We have movement on all of our Hussars. They have more Sipahis exposed than we have Hussars though.
More glory to the HUssars
Grimjack
1150AD Wow, the AIs are way ahead of us in techs. For some reason I do not think it matters overly much. We will divide and conquer.
I fire up a war with the Portugese since LKendter has been so kind as to position troops in good places for such an adventure.
It may get a bit bloody, since we cannot use artillery to soften the targets. I am not even vertain we may build artillery to defend ourself with, since they have a higher attack than defense and is movement 1.
Lagos defended by two muskets is an easy snack for an army and two Hussars. ( Yes, to my great sorrow, a regular musket defeated a veteran Hussar. )
Oporto has a vet rifleman on top, but our army makes short work of him, and his regular friend. Then Alvarez leads a particularly skillful charge and defeats a veteran musketman company, and as a thank you, he is made commander of his own Hussar Army.
Just to isolate the Portugese, I sign up Ottomans against him for Furs. He even pays 44 gold for that pleasure.
Gandhi joins for Ivory and 3 gpt.
We are strong compared to Portugal, so I suspect they will melt away quickly. Especially considering they have no horses that I can see.
IBT: The Portugese manage to scare up a knight that kills one of our Hussars. Some longbows are severely wounded as they travel around one of our armies.
1160AD: Time to kill POrtugese. Sao Paolo in the Jungle falls. Lose a Hussar in the battle of Braga. Braga was defended by three riflemen and a longbow. ( Took the top rifle with our Army. )
Coimbra falls to our new army. I spot two ships on the inland sea, heading for shores unknown. I will have to station a hussar or two as shore patrol in our core.
Our western army capture Guinamares guarded by three riflemen. In a fluke, a longbow managed to retreat a hussar, leaving that hussar exposed to the same longbow.
I kill off the Longbows with my reserve troops. I also rush two temples.
IBT: No counterattacks. The Portugese turn back with their chips, and land a longbow/medieval pair on a hill with a view over the front.
1170 Evora falls to our might, and Portuhal is reduced to a 2CC. The life expectancy has dropped sharply though for Henry, and he is not expected to last the century.
We capture Lisbon this turn without losses, and only two retreats.
IBT: Now I know where all of POrtugals defenders went. They were loaded on ships, and this turn they are landed on various shores.
1180 Time to find Henrys last hiding place. Ottomans have some 30 Sipahis in our territory. They are wonderfully exposed, but I will have to keep watch on them only.
In a lengthy siege, Sagres falls to a regular Hussar. We are out of Portugese. I will regroup in defensive patterns, although should Ottos sneak attack, we will take a lot of initial losses.
I am debating rushing culture or ships, but in the end decide on culture.
1190 Railing and healing. Start to suppress resistance with our troops.
1200 I will stop here for the night. We are at 52% lanmdmass right now, and I do not think that would be enough. We have some 30 Sipahis, and 10 riflemen of the Ottomans wandering around inside our borders. There is no way we can take them all out before losing a couple of sacrifical cities.
I will build a few boats, so we can ship our troops across the sea to meet up with the elephants. Hopefully I will have rushed four ships and placed them in position for next player to see what he can do about the indian menace.
1210 I think long and hard about it, but I think victory will be sped up by it, so I buy industrialization from Ottomans for two luxes and 80 gpt. Ottomans are not close to victory, so it does not really matter much if we give them some more resources. I will concentrate on culture, and prepare for naval assault upon India.
India is only annoyed at us, so I will not sign deals with them in case they do NOT go to war against us when someone later asks them to leave.
1220 I withdraw most of oru railing crew back into the core, and start building factories in our five largest cities. I have no money to rush factories, as I still need to rush culture before some AI try to squeeze a settler into the gaps inside former Portugal.
1230 Hohumhohum. Railnet is now complete, and two core cities are halfway railed, in preparation for optimization. I will rush galleons next turn, and ask India to leave.
1240 To my surprise, India is willing to leave our territory when we demand he do so. We are of course strong compared to him. Very well, I can then leave the decision up to next player.
1250 I have spread out our Hussars along the Ottoman border. I have also left you with a treasury, which you can decide yourself on how you want to use it.
Spying Nationalism from the Indian, rushing culture, or rushing galleons and grab some more land from the Indians would all be worthwhile.
If you are feeling particularly hostile, prepare for a war against Ottomans. It will likely be against infantry though, so I would not recommend that.
If you go to war against the Indians, be sure to involve the Ottomans. We could do with a lot less Sipahis on our continent. There are quite a lot of them around Antium.
Most of the Sipahis are of course exposed right now, and you could demand Ottos leave, and catch a lot of them. We have movement on all of our Hussars. They have more Sipahis exposed than we have Hussars though.
More glory to the HUssars
Grimjack
Aggie
Deity
Grimjack, when you are saying that I should be careful with the Ottomans, it's probably true. I remember your last 10 turns and what you left me
Got it.
Got it.
Aggie
Deity
I will play tomorrow or friday, but I already scouted a bit with our Hussars. Iznik, Pisae and Antium are defended by rifles. I am extremely tempted to attack the Ottomans again, but we have to hope that they declare war on us, since we still have 16 turns of peace (I don't understand the fact that we ended the first Ottoman campaign, but oh well).
We have more Hussars than the Ottomans have Sipahi, so we can whipe out the complete attacking force close to us in one blow. We can also easily defend our border cities, because we have a lot of muskets in our empire where they are not needed anymore (core cities).
We have no ships at all so an attack of Indian lands takes a few more turns. We need as much land as the entire Indian territory, but naturally we are able to grab land with culture as well (about half of that).
We have more Hussars than the Ottomans have Sipahi, so we can whipe out the complete attacking force close to us in one blow. We can also easily defend our border cities, because we have a lot of muskets in our empire where they are not needed anymore (core cities).
We have no ships at all so an attack of Indian lands takes a few more turns. We need as much land as the entire Indian territory, but naturally we are able to grab land with culture as well (about half of that).
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