LK69 - Babylon - 80K challenge
- Thread starter LKendter
- Start date
Oh well, here's the rest of the turnlog. Seems like we aren't in so much of a trouble so fast, but we'll eventually be unless we get some military.
10BC [7]: Trade MA with the Romans against the Zulu for Literature.
Kill a barb horse with a bowman.
Kill a barb horse with a warrior.
Kill the last barb horse with a warrior.
Kill a barb warrior with a warrior.
IBT: Looks like the MA saved us, most of the offending Zulu swords turn around towards Rome.
The Zulu attack Nippur with a reg sword, our vet bowman wins and we get a Golden Age.
The Zulu move all but a few archers and Impi's away from attacking us. They land an Impi and settler near Shuruppak, though.
Babylon bowman > swordsman.
Uruk builds the Forbidden Palace > bowman. We only have warriors around.
We get a palace expansion.
10AD [8]: Move troops around, MM cities for GA.
I know this is late, but trade Mono to the Vikes for 56 gold.
Trade Mono to Mongolia for 20gold.
Two vet bowmen kill 2 reg archers near Nippur, the Zulus only have 2 Impi's and one settler in our area now.
IBT: Our vet bowman kills a sword, but the Zulus now bring many into our view.
SoZ produces an AC.
Akkad lib > bowman.
Eridu bowman > bowman.
Samarra market > bowman.
30AD [9]: The Zulu still won't accept our emissary.
I see 5 swords now. This will get bloody.
Rush bowman in Nippur for 72 gold.
IBT: The Zulus have some 10 or so swords ready to attack Pisae, a Roman town.
Babylon sword > sword.
Ashur settler > settler.
Nippur bowman > bowman.
Uruk bowman > bowman.
50AD [10]: Move troops around.... The Zulus have acity in the middle of our empire, we should get it destroyed ASAP, although it's totally useless for them and will be totally corrupt.. we'll propably get a "free" city from it.
We have troops going North, I hope they get in time. The Zulus have a SoD near Pisae, it's gonna be tough.
We have 2 settlers in the Western area, I don't know where they should settle, but they are there accompanied with warriors.
Once more I apologise for the stupid moves I made.
I should have understood our situation better, and not be so proud...
10BC [7]: Trade MA with the Romans against the Zulu for Literature.
Kill a barb horse with a bowman.
Kill a barb horse with a warrior.
Kill the last barb horse with a warrior.
Kill a barb warrior with a warrior.
IBT: Looks like the MA saved us, most of the offending Zulu swords turn around towards Rome.
The Zulu attack Nippur with a reg sword, our vet bowman wins and we get a Golden Age.
The Zulu move all but a few archers and Impi's away from attacking us. They land an Impi and settler near Shuruppak, though.
Babylon bowman > swordsman.
Uruk builds the Forbidden Palace > bowman. We only have warriors around.
We get a palace expansion.
10AD [8]: Move troops around, MM cities for GA.
I know this is late, but trade Mono to the Vikes for 56 gold.
Trade Mono to Mongolia for 20gold.
Two vet bowmen kill 2 reg archers near Nippur, the Zulus only have 2 Impi's and one settler in our area now.
IBT: Our vet bowman kills a sword, but the Zulus now bring many into our view.
SoZ produces an AC.
Akkad lib > bowman.
Eridu bowman > bowman.
Samarra market > bowman.
30AD [9]: The Zulu still won't accept our emissary.
I see 5 swords now. This will get bloody.
Rush bowman in Nippur for 72 gold.
IBT: The Zulus have some 10 or so swords ready to attack Pisae, a Roman town.
Babylon sword > sword.
Ashur settler > settler.
Nippur bowman > bowman.
Uruk bowman > bowman.
50AD [10]: Move troops around.... The Zulus have acity in the middle of our empire, we should get it destroyed ASAP, although it's totally useless for them and will be totally corrupt.. we'll propably get a "free" city from it.
We have troops going North, I hope they get in time. The Zulus have a SoD near Pisae, it's gonna be tough.
We have 2 settlers in the Western area, I don't know where they should settle, but they are there accompanied with warriors.
Once more I apologise for the stupid moves I made.
I should have understood our situation better, and not be so proud...
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 20,064
From the variant rules:
5) We must accept peace once the attack civ will give it to use for free. We are allowed to take concessions during the peace talks. This pretty much rules out alliances and MPPs.
I don't know what to do that this point. We have broken the intent of the variant. Read number 5. Read my reminder comment. Despite that an alliance was signed.
5) We must accept peace once the attack civ will give it to use for free. We are allowed to take concessions during the peace talks. This pretty much rules out alliances and MPPs.
Remember the variant rules - peace as soon as free. We will have to break the alliance destroying our rep.
I don't know what to do that this point. We have broken the intent of the variant. Read number 5. Read my reminder comment. Despite that an alliance was signed.
microbe
Cascaded Mansion
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2003
- Messages
- 4,596
[delete pointless suggestions]
I agree with Lee completely. Why did we sign the MA? I'd rather lose one city instead (and if we were lucky we wouldn't have, because I built that city on a hill). I was about to post a suggestion but now it's pointless so I deleted it.
We probably could continue to play and win, but the bigger problem is that I see people were not understanding the game and thus have chosen wrong tactics, or maybe just were in a haste to play by thinking this was an "easy" game.
I agree with Lee completely. Why did we sign the MA? I'd rather lose one city instead (and if we were lucky we wouldn't have, because I built that city on a hill). I was about to post a suggestion but now it's pointless so I deleted it.
We probably could continue to play and win, but the bigger problem is that I see people were not understanding the game and thus have chosen wrong tactics, or maybe just were in a haste to play by thinking this was an "easy" game.
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 20,064
I feel this game has violated the sprit of the variant.
I clearly failed on my wording on the variant rules. Signing alliances, and defiant attitude on our continent when are weak were not my game intentions. I have listed the rules again at the bottom of this post.
I want to hear comments from the other player on how they feel. Reread rule #7. IMHO we are not playing the spirit of the variant.
The options are to void the last 10 turns, or void the game. Let me know how you feel. I favor considering the game voided.
=======================================
The variant rules - this is meant to be a passive cultural win game as much as possible.
1) During despotism we must cave to all demands.
2) After despotism we have the right to refuse demands beyond cash / world map.
3) We may not demand other AI civs leave our territory, except for a clear sneak attack. If the Zulu and Vikings are fighting each other going through our territory we allow it.
4) Once spies arrive, we many only plant spies, and steal techs. I don't want other actions that are designed mainly to encourage war.
5) We must accept peace once the attack civ will give it to use for free. We are allowed to take concessions during the peace talks. This pretty much rules out alliances and MPPs.
6) We may not declare war except for the following reasons:
A) To stop a space launch
B) We hit 80K, but another civ has at least 40K. This still is meant to be a limited war.
7) When in doubt about actions please think about the spirit of the game.
I clearly failed on my wording on the variant rules. Signing alliances, and defiant attitude on our continent when are weak were not my game intentions. I have listed the rules again at the bottom of this post.
I want to hear comments from the other player on how they feel. Reread rule #7. IMHO we are not playing the spirit of the variant.
The options are to void the last 10 turns, or void the game. Let me know how you feel. I favor considering the game voided.
=======================================
The variant rules - this is meant to be a passive cultural win game as much as possible.
1) During despotism we must cave to all demands.
2) After despotism we have the right to refuse demands beyond cash / world map.
3) We may not demand other AI civs leave our territory, except for a clear sneak attack. If the Zulu and Vikings are fighting each other going through our territory we allow it.
4) Once spies arrive, we many only plant spies, and steal techs. I don't want other actions that are designed mainly to encourage war.
5) We must accept peace once the attack civ will give it to use for free. We are allowed to take concessions during the peace talks. This pretty much rules out alliances and MPPs.
6) We may not declare war except for the following reasons:
A) To stop a space launch
B) We hit 80K, but another civ has at least 40K. This still is meant to be a limited war.
7) When in doubt about actions please think about the spirit of the game.
microbe
Cascaded Mansion
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2003
- Messages
- 4,596
We have about 3 bowmen and a warrior(?) in Nippu. Since it's on hill I suggest we fortify all the units there without attacking. Let Zulu attack us.
The next thing is to defend Eridu at all cost. Do we have enough units? Rush some if don't. Turn off science now to save gold. The majority of Zulu's units won't be able to reach us before it could take peace, I think, but it's closest units may ignore Nippu and go directly to Eridu in 3 turns. So start reinforcing now.
At last, don't just sell Monotheism for nothing!
EDIT: saw Arathorn's post. I think it's up to Lee. I just checked we paid Lit for the MA so I don't think it will trash our trading rep. It will make Rome furious with us and probably make future MA impossible which we don't need anyway.
The next thing is to defend Eridu at all cost. Do we have enough units? Rush some if don't. Turn off science now to save gold. The majority of Zulu's units won't be able to reach us before it could take peace, I think, but it's closest units may ignore Nippu and go directly to Eridu in 3 turns. So start reinforcing now.
At last, don't just sell Monotheism for nothing!
EDIT: saw Arathorn's post. I think it's up to Lee. I just checked we paid Lit for the MA so I don't think it will trash our trading rep. It will make Rome furious with us and probably make future MA impossible which we don't need anyway.
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
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Arathorn said:
Part of the problem here is my intention was to prohibit alliances / MPP. I screwed up at the variant rules. I thought this pretty much rules out alliances / mpp was clear enough.
===================================
I am putting this game back on HOLD while I think about this more.
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 20,064
Now that I have somewhat calmed down about the game situation I can think about it more clearly.
1) The last turn violated my intentions on how the game was to play out.
2) The last turn followed the rules as written.
The summary based on this is as follows:
1) Ankka turn stands. Per the written rules he did nothing wrong.
2) I can't ask the turn to be changed because a player failed to read my mind.
3) The screw up was MINE. I wasn't clear enough on my intentions with alliances.
4) Back to playing the game with Karasu playing.
5) I have rewritten the rules a little, and the new set is to be used effective NOW. I have now expressly banned alliances / MPP as was my original intention.
=================================
Signed up:
LKendter (on deck)
Microbe
SesnOfWthr
Ankka
Karasu (currently playing)
Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
>> Starting with LK68 the LK series is on patch 1.22.
The variant rules - this is meant to be a passive cultural win game as much as possible.
1) During despotism we must cave to all demands.
2) After despotism we have the right to refuse demands beyond cash / world map. However, our civ dislikes war. Is the item worth fighting over?
3) We may not demand other AI civs leave our territory, except for a clear sneak attack. If the Zulu and Vikings are fighting each other going through our territory we allow it.
4) Once spies arrive, we many only plant spies, and steal techs. I don't want other actions that are designed mainly to encourage war.
5) We must accept peace once the civ will give it to use for free. We are allowed to take concessions during the peace talks.
6) We are prohibited form signing alliances and MPPs.
7) We may not declare war except for the following reasons:
A) To stop a space launch
B) We hit 80K, but another civ has at least 40K. This still is meant to be a limited war.
8) When in doubt about actions please think about the spirit of the game.
1) The last turn violated my intentions on how the game was to play out.
2) The last turn followed the rules as written.
The summary based on this is as follows:
1) Ankka turn stands. Per the written rules he did nothing wrong.
2) I can't ask the turn to be changed because a player failed to read my mind.
3) The screw up was MINE. I wasn't clear enough on my intentions with alliances.
4) Back to playing the game with Karasu playing.
5) I have rewritten the rules a little, and the new set is to be used effective NOW. I have now expressly banned alliances / MPP as was my original intention.
=================================
Signed up:
LKendter (on deck)
Microbe
SesnOfWthr
Ankka
Karasu (currently playing)
Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
>> Starting with LK68 the LK series is on patch 1.22.
The variant rules - this is meant to be a passive cultural win game as much as possible.
1) During despotism we must cave to all demands.
2) After despotism we have the right to refuse demands beyond cash / world map. However, our civ dislikes war. Is the item worth fighting over?
3) We may not demand other AI civs leave our territory, except for a clear sneak attack. If the Zulu and Vikings are fighting each other going through our territory we allow it.
4) Once spies arrive, we many only plant spies, and steal techs. I don't want other actions that are designed mainly to encourage war.
5) We must accept peace once the civ will give it to use for free. We are allowed to take concessions during the peace talks.
6) We are prohibited form signing alliances and MPPs.
7) We may not declare war except for the following reasons:
A) To stop a space launch
B) We hit 80K, but another civ has at least 40K. This still is meant to be a limited war.
8) When in doubt about actions please think about the spirit of the game.
SesnOfWthr
True Believer
Wow!! I sure did miss a lot, huh? Amazing what happens when you're off painting your apartment all day.
FWIW, I would have voted for Microbe's "A", but I think playing it out is probably more appropriate.
FWIW, I would have voted for Microbe's "A", but I think playing it out is probably more appropriate.
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 20,064
I got a look at the game. I noticed that we are researching Theology @ 1st civ prices. Why are we researching at all? Microbe said it best - we need to keep the tech pace SLOW. Unless we are going for a specific wonder, we should NOT research at all. Or wait until more civs have the tech.
We need to hit 80K before a space launch. The slower the tech pace, the lower that risk.
On the game:
Why is there a Zulu settler / impi pair next to Nippur that is being ignored? Kill the settler and get us two workers.
Why is the bowman fortified outside of Eridu when the Zulu could attack the city? Either attack, or move the unit inside the city.
The second we get peace, please cancel all the military builds. We don't need a nation of bowman that has no useful upgrade path.
We need to hit 80K before a space launch. The slower the tech pace, the lower that risk.
On the game:
Why is there a Zulu settler / impi pair next to Nippur that is being ignored? Kill the settler and get us two workers.
Why is the bowman fortified outside of Eridu when the Zulu could attack the city? Either attack, or move the unit inside the city.
The second we get peace, please cancel all the military builds. We don't need a nation of bowman that has no useful upgrade path.
SesnOfWthr
True Believer
Theology was my oops. I figured that we would like to have Sistine's, so I set it to that at a slow pace.
