LK97 - Korea, Space Race, Deity, RaR Module

[LKendter]

Puzzled why we neglected the cheap (40 shield) granaries, if we wanted our cities to grow faster.

These always seem to get lost in the shuffle. They are bad deal during chiefdom as the economy can collapse far to easy, but after that they will help.


I took a look at the game. I have to agree at some point Greece must be slowed down. The question will be when. With them being industrial we won't get a monopoly tech against them for a bit. They are the civ we need to sell techs to. All that yummy Greek cash will be the key to upgrading our spears to pikes and peasants to laborers. Now if some other backwards civ would take a city and we could get the cash from them...

We are starting on the Hwacha, so we have a possible GA coming up. However, we are still lacking the needed mobile units for a war.

 

[LKendter]

well, I started one during my turns, but this was the reply

Well that was the worker pump city, and I didn't understand why we stopped pumping out the workers.

 

[ThERat]

Well that was the worker pump city, and I didn't understand why we stopped pumping out the workers

I explained already that when i inherited the save, it had outgrown the worker pump size and was building military to defend and survive.
Once we were back to peace, I saw it would take 3 turns to grow and 2 turns to pump a worker (means losing pop). Thus, a granary to speed up pop gain and match it with worker-build speed. Does that make sense or maybe am I wrong here?

 

[LKendter]

Once we were back to peace, I saw it would take 3 turns to grow and 2 turns to pump a worker (means losing pop). Thus, a granary to speed up pop gain and match it with worker-build speed. Does that make sense or maybe am I wrong here?

I may have lost a pop point during the swap.
However, I didn't see the granary letting us get one turns units. That is why I didn't want it.

 

[Bezhukov]

Now that laborers cost 30, a change of plans there seems in order. That city will actually make significant shields during the GA, so could get some production boosters going there, it might could regain its old job.

I really feel like that if we let the AI do most of the fighting for us, we have nearly enough units already to sit back and let the Mongols come to us and pick them off for a while. At least enough to get a Hwatcha win, which would up our production enough to make more units and have a better shot at getting Smith's before a cascader catches it. Even if an ER kills one of our spears, it will probably take some damage, leaving it vulnerable to a Hwatcha shot or two.

If we gang up Rome, America, and Carthage on Mongolia; Ethiopia and Incas will probably jump in on their own to share the spoils.

BTW, we don't need to beat Greece in tech to get the rest of the world allied against them - we only need to beat the rest of the world.

I did upgrade five or six war camels to mameluks during my set.

 

[romeothemonk]

I got it. I lean heavily towards war, but This still doesn't match my conditions for war.
In Bez1, Smiths was worth 350 gpt, and I assume it will be worth a similar amount here. I will put on my builder hat. There will be some are units, but mostly defense.
I honestly think that the only way we will want to war is with slow foot units and armies, and a huge ol SoD of Arty and HWatcha. War must be deliberate, and we do not have the time to fire off half cocked. War is still premature. If I were to be warring, I would have changed up the setup in the last 40 turns. We should build until electricity, then push war, IMHO.

 

[Bezhukov]

Romeo, pls see my objectives above, and ask yourself if they are reachable given an alliance with the Romans, Americans, and Carthaginians against the Mongols. I woulld be willing to bet that if we don't get our GA in the next five turns, we can kiss Smith's goodbye anyway.

We are really overdue for our GA. My turns were exclusively builder turns, and our tertiary cities should continue to build whether we war or not. Pyongyang, on the other hand, will be perfectly situated to build units when his mine finishes, Seoul could provide a nice army single-handedly in the next twenty, and Carson will be there too soon.

I trust your judgment, but believe it will take a GA to get us the tech lead we need to unite the world against the Greek menace. If we wait until electricity, Greece could be close to tanks, especially if he starts eating his neighbors.

Pls delay prisons and hospitals until after factories, or at least until the GA.

 

[romeothemonk]

IHT: Not much to do. Unit costs are killing us, swap Nampo to counselor. In my opinion we have plenty of workers. Swap Seoul to halbadier, as I never like my capitol with only 1 unit in it. Max research rate.
Turn 1: Get Music Theory and 8 gpt from the Inca for Juris Prudence, Sold Prudence to Rome for a WM and 112 gold. Astronomy gets gems and 12 gold from the Mongols. Cannot squeeze anything else out of anyone.
Turn 2: Get flintlock. We get 76 gold and a WM from Ethiopia for it. We get a freebie as Alexander builds an embassy for us. Upgrade a few units. I see no choice but to slow research to 3 turns. Get Naval Cannon from Inca for Flintlock. Do WM trades for around 20 gold.
Turn 3: Get 2 luxes from America for Naval Cannon. Abe chips in gold and a WM.
Turn 4: Not much, Seoul went to a market. We need the Central Bank.
Turn 5: Carson city will get an academy and a library, each in 1.
Turn 6: We get cavalry tactics, switch ages and get Nationalism free. It is a monopoly. Can I get a Booyah? Nationalism gets us grand strategy, a very pricey WM and 150 gold from Greece. Grand Strategy gets us Humanism from Ethiopia. Steam is due in 5 at a slight loss.
Turn 7: The Science push in our outlying cities pays off as we drop a turn off of steam and lose less gpt due to market in Seoul. Seoul starts bank. Nationalism gets a WM and Shipbuilding from Ethiopia. Greece is only up 3 techs.
Turn 8: Greece has Steam. Nuts. Still pushing hard on the science and eoncomy.
Turn 9: We pull our first AI damaging trade.

Start research on ToE, as it would be a monopoly tech. Mil academy in Seoul is a ToE Prebuild.
Turn 10: Corruption is still dogging us badly. I have snuck in some courts and such throughout as well.

We got all kings of good news, and everything is looking up for us. I would keep building and get us some more economy going, then throw up some factories. We must have peace for ~20 more turns, and we will economically crush our opponents. We are suffering no flip threat or culture pressure at the moment.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LK97-450AD.SAV

 

[LKendter]

Smith's Trading company in 1.

We also have so nice GPT coming in from other civs. No we have to hope they don't break their payment via war. I have suffered that one to many times.

With ToE coming in our #1 goal should be at least one monopoly tech. I would really like to get a large block of cash from Greece to upgrade our worker force and spearmen. The upgrade to line infantry is an absurd $210, and is only feasible if we get several thousand from Greece.

We need to think if we want to become a federal republic. It gives lower corruption and 150% worker efficiency.

Corruption is still dogging us badly. I have snuck in some courts and such throughout as well.

Well that wonderful Supreme Court should be available soon to further help. I think we should put he Summer Palace in Carson City to simply get the OCN boast. That will help us even more.

Turn 4: Not much, Seoul went to a market. We need the Central Bank.

$50 in interest is always a good thing. I am not sure if the Capitol is the ultimate location this game, as we haven't gotten any of the +1 trade bonus wonders yet.


My worry is still military as we are still ignoring it. The perfect tech picture is meaningless if we loss a key city. In addition, I feel we DO have at least one required war. The Mongols must be hit. Darhan gives us Saltpeter. Kazan gives us coal AND spices. I don't want to have to depend on importing iron and coal for the rest of the game.

The second war that is needed is Greece. They are the #1 culture threat. They have a ton of cash to get for razing cities. There culture is so strong

Consider the following for our GA situation. We are commercial and scientific. Smith's in one turn is a commercial wonder. ToE is a scientific wonder. If we get ToE we get our GA.


Signed up:
LKendter
Bezhukov
Romeothemonk
Sanabas (currently playing)
ThERat (on deck)

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
There are no restrictions on this game. Just remember that the goal isn't to be out of control warmongers toward domination that ends with a space win.

I would prefer to win without the crutch of GL1 and GL2.

 

[Bezhukov]

"I think we should put he Summer Palace in Carson City to simply get the OCN boast. That will help us even more."

Good idea, especially if we're just going to be peaceful builders for the most part. Might make sense just to disband the spears and build line infantry instead of paying the huge upgrade costs. Given our lack of coastal cities, still think Smith's will be disappointing, but would be nice to trigger a GA with it. Any chance of getting Newton's too?

Can't believe I'm the warmonger and Romeo's the builder here.

 

[romeothemonk]

We can get Newtons, but I would prefer the ToE. That would be our chance to get a monoploy tech or 2, and bilk greece Badly. We could use our GA to build up a force and hit the Mongols hard, liberating our 2 listed key cities.
For governments, I like Federal republic with Smith's a whole ton better than Soc Dem. I know this isn't 1.04, but soc dem got nerfed a bit there, and I just love stacking the conglomerate and Empire state in my capitol and watching the commerce flow. I am not sure a revolt is in order yet though.

 

[Bezhukov]

I wish there were more of a decision to make there, but sco dem just works too well on so many levels. If we stay small, its closer, but so many of the late improvements have such high upkeeps, that soc dem is really the only way to go if you run the numbers.

Speaking of which, the marginal science boost offered by Newton will give us 50 monopoly techs if we play our cards right. ToE just ain't that big a deal when there are over 200 techs to research.

 

[sanabas]

450AD: All good, change Pyong'yang from philo school to school, change Carson City to Summer Palace

460: Pusan builds Smith's ---> Newton's. Only about 20gpt benefit from smith's for now, but that will improve.
Ethiopia is on the march again, better not be attacking us, switch a couple of builds just in case, get a couple of Barracks built

470: Ethiopia extort 29 gold

480: Research TofE--->Social Darwinism
Ethiopia builds Circus Maximus
Greece has TofE too.
Trade ToE to Ethiopia for WM, 40gpt & 60 gold
Ethiopia is marching through our territory, Rome or Greece is the target

490: zzz

500: Carson City builds Summer Palace
America builds Gutenberg's Bible

510: Ethiopia declares war on Rome
Trade Nationalism to Rome for Naval Tactics

520: Greece declares war on Rome too
Research Social Darwinism at monopoly---> Industrialisation
Soc Dar to Greece for Medicine & 900 gold
Soc Dar & Medicine to Ethiopia for Industrialisation & 40 gold
Start research on Steam Engine

530: Mongols & Rome ally v Greece

540: America & Greece ally v Mongols
Mongols demand Dyes, I tell them to go away, and they do.
America establishes embassy with us
Greece beats us to Newton's by 1 turn, switch Pusan to Sistine Chapel, I think we want Taj Mahal, which is available in 2 turns.
Give Soc Dar & steam power to Inca for Constitutionalism & 410 gold
Soc Dar & Steam Power to Rome for 125gpt & 220 gold
Upgrade 11 peasants

IBT: Renew Saltpetre deal, we give camel, dyes & 65gpt to greece for it. Went with 65gpt rather than 1200 lump sum just in case war starts.
Renew spice & iron deal, we give rome a tech for it. I wrote Social Darwinism, which I gave them for the gold, I think it was probably Industrialisation.

550: Greece builds JS Bach's Cathedral
Upgrade 6 more peasants

Steam engine is due next turn, Pusan should switch to Taj Mahal, I think it's the most useful wonder on the list apart from Encyclopedie, which we don't want. T of E is due in 6 turns, we should be a good chance of 2 monopolies from it.

 

[romeothemonk]

From the sounds of this I would change our wonder builds. I would swap Pusan to ToE, and Seoul to the Military Academy. We will want to get up factories in these 2 towns ASAP, as well as start accumulating free armies. If we can get High Explosives with the ToE, I would do that regardless of monopoly status, or if you can trade our Mono techs for it. We do not want to feed Greece any more gpt, and actually want to bleed gpt from it.
I think we should also make sure that Rome gets greatly discounted techs, especially military techs, as they will be eating all the advanced units from the 2 tech monsters.
We can probably build up military in the next 10-15 turns and make the mongols suffer. I would be in favor of this as they already have 2 opponents, and are backward.
I would want someone to provide a really good analysis on why we would want to build the Taj Mahal. Is Clauswiz's on War availible? With the expensive upgrades of this age, I think that it is a very useful wonder, certainly far more than the Taj. This is also an option if the Tech pace is aligned with the ToE.

 

[LKendter]

Signed up:
LKendter (on deck)
Bezhukov
Romeothemonk
Sanabas
ThERat (currently playing)

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
There are no restrictions on this game. Just remember that the goal isn't to be out of control warmongers toward domination that ends with a space win.

I would prefer to win without the crutch of GL1 and GL2.

 

[sanabas]

We should be able to research High Explosives ourselves in the 5 turns we have after steam engine is researched and before T of E completes. Tech pace is in sync with a Seoul T of E build, Pusan would complete in 8 and be in the middle of whatever tech we research after T of E. Clausewitz is available, switching Pusan to that is a good idea, I think it would finish very soon. For some reason I thought Clausewitz was free barracks, not 1/2 price upgrades. Taj Mahal is the equivalent of a happy face in each city that doesn't expire, so it is useful but not too important, I agree 1/2 price upgrades is much better for us at the moment, so I'd like to see Seoul finish T of E and trigger our GA, Pusan build Clausewitz, and miliatary academy can wait a bit.

 

[ThERat]

got it, tonight

 

[ThERat]

save

Pre-Turn
read the suggestion and swap Pusan to Clausewitz in 5

IT Romans get some beating

1.560AD
Greece pull steam same turn as us, no bleeding possible here
we lose gems from Mongols, but we don't trade with them any longer
trade steam engine with Romans straight for Federalism
we get ToE in 4, the only tech we can pull faster is modern legal system, go for that then
federalism to Inca for 39gpt

2.570AD
zzz

IT Inca and Greece sign against Mongols

3. 580AD
nth much

IT America and greece ally against Rome
get Modern Legal system
Cathage finishes Sistine, I hold my breath but no cascade, we will get our 2 wonders next turn

4 .590AD
we want Greece to bleed, let's see
send it to them for 90gpt
Rome is rich adn pays 750g for it
swap it with ethiopia for Free Artistry
Rome pays another 550g for that

IT Inca and Greece sign MPP
we get ToE and enter GA
we get high explosives, go for another expensive tech, corporation

go for sanitation so we can get city planning for forests in our barren deserts

on another positive note, Rome actually managed to raze a greek town and their cpt has plunged for now

5. 600AD
America has 3 sources of coal, but lack the knowledge to know it actually exists, that has to change immediately
ship them steam in exchange for social contracts and hope they will start to connect those 2 sources for us
send High explosives to Greece for 240gpt
for the Corporation we take 1100g and 150gpt
establish embassies with 5 Civ's which we didn't do before (all show lack of research and shields)
invest some money on a careful steel in Greece and we get electricity
to get some cash back, send it to Rome for 47gpt and 180g

IT now Carthago declares on mongols

6. 610AD
zzzz

IT ethiopia and Rome sign peace

7. 620AD
America seems in no hurry to connect their coal

IT we get sanitation

8. 630AD
sell sanitation to Greece for 2550g (they won't pay gpt since they seem broke)
go for espionage next so we start really stealing as well
am fed up, sign RoP with America to connect their coal for us ( we need that also if we want to fight Mongols)
Ethiopia has money again, sell sanitation for 160g and 41gpt

IT no wonder America does not connect coal, since they fight Romans closeby
Pusan and Seoul finish their factories, both go for wonders
Rome gets encyclopedia

9.640AD
since they will gain those techs anyway next turn, sell Rome high explosives for all money they have
32gpt and 69g
our workers reach coal source

10.650AD
connect coal and buy it for a tech, send a unit to cover it from Romans
finally start to rail, but with so few workers this is slow
Hyangsan which is unhappy anyway, will skim off a worker next turn
espionage will be in next turn, most likely monopoly, we should build IA
we have 6200g and make 772gpt at 60% science (10% lux)

Mongols are gone soon, we better start to attack this turn (left units for next player to declare and move in)

our expatriate workforce in American land

 

[ThERat]

since we now have coal, we should switch Pusan and Seoul to coal plants

and I did not realise that Tabriz is Incan already. we might be too late to reach that slat town of the Mongols, they suddenly have too many enemies.

we might want to pick Carthage and Mongols together and try and get something from there.

 

[LKendter]

Signed up:
LKendter (currently playing)
Bezhukov (on deck)
Romeothemonk
Sanabas
ThERat

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
There are no restrictions on this game. Just remember that the goal isn't to be out of control warmongers toward domination that ends with a space win.

I would prefer to win without the crutch of GL1 and GL2.