Lonely Hearts 2: Shaka

I don't really see the value of charismatic, maybe I'm missing something. Philosophical would be good, organised was tried with ALC 15 shadows (and worked well). You don't need an early UU to fogbust, warriors or even scouts can do the business. Warriors are better because you can then use them for initial garrisons. You just need units you can build and get in place quickly.
 
peter? or would that be too similar to this one? I would realy like to see a lightbulb to astronomy game(and maybe scientific method -> electricity -> mass media UN win). Any philosophical or even industrial leader could work too though. As long as you dont actually adopt an religion and do a bit good trading / relationmongering later you should do fine. As for this game doing anything but a space win at this point seems kinda hard...
 
@ pigswill

Char = extra :) = less need for "happy units" = less maitenance.

I agree with you about the warrior fog busting. But no one can deny that the fact of having a nice early UU was helpful in barb killing on this games ( at least for me ,Impis helped a lot ). Warrior can't cope easily a axeman attack, even on forest hills, and it may take a while to fogbust the whole island. On the other hand, it would be good to try a diferent thing.

P.S Imp is a weak trait IMHO, but the bonus on the settler could be useful on REXing. Thoughts?
 
@ oyzar

I don't believe that peter in isolation would be equal to Shaka. My first thougth on strats with an isolated peter would be a SE and lightbulb to Lib, grabing Astro ( like you said ), far diferent of the willpax and already posted games ( all cottage based ). I do believe that this Shaka game would cope a SE path (in spite of not having a stellar place for a GP farm, the land has some decent food places , including the capitol), none of the games so far has showed a SE ( it would be fun to compare).
Peter would be fine for a test on a SE aproach to the isolation problem, like Frederick ( maybe even better... that :health: bonus is a lifesaver). But willpax has the final word on this.
 
Astronomy beeline is fairly straightforward, simply avoid CS and theology, get optics, trade for calendar and you lightbulb astronomy next.
Its actually better to run a hybrid economy; two or three GS farms for compass, optics and astronomy; you also need beakers for IW,sailing, MC and machinery.
This is basically the strategy I employed in HC2 and this game though with the exception of diverting to CoL for philosophy slingshot and running pacifism to speed up GS production. Parthenon is also worth doing if you've got marble (like HC2); if you had a philosophical leader then you could probably miss out CoL/philosophy bypass and get to astronomy quicker.
 
IW,sailing, MC and machinery <-- all of those are perfectly fine lightbulbable... though your likely reaserching at least some of them... You can ofc do lib for astronomy or scientific method or something cause you need paper anyways and education helps with universeties.
 
RRolo,

Finished my shadow game last night. Launched in 1895 for 18785 points. Not too bad for a launch date, but a lower score than I was expecting.

My vote for a leader to try next is Elizabeth, if only because we can try several different strategies in parallel with the same start:

- Lightbulb to Astronomy
- Lightbulb to Liberalism (and let them find us)
- Cottage spam
- Specialist economy

But I have one huge plea to make. I really really don't want to play another isolated start on Epic. Normal speed would be much more fun - even quick could be considered.
 
@ InvisibleStalke

Not so bad ( better than me :( (mine was in 1934)). Post the save when you can, please.

About Elizabeth.... Phi/Fin may work well, and having diferent strategies tested would be educational. The only problem is the diferent levels of game finesse that the players participating here have ( I'm the worst, methinks :( ( shouldn't had started to play in warlord... got too many bad habits)).

I do believe that playing normal speed would be fine ( is out of my confort zone, but I can live with that) .Quick is just too quick for me....
 
I normally play Emperor and am thinking of trying Immortal, so in going down to Monarch I am well within my comfort zone. I'd be keen to try an Isolated start in Emperor too - its a pity you can't take a starting save and switch the leader and difficulty level. I'm also happy to try some more unorthodox strategies and see if they work.
 
Spoiler :

The main themes of this round: expanding the economy and attempting to catch up on tech--the latter could be difficult with a runaway Ramesses in play.

As previously decided, we started with printing press. Along the way, we finally got our first trade, with Mehmed: calendar, engineering, polytheism, a world map (something I wanted) and the spare change under his couch for education. On the resource front, Mao and Ramesses were the only civs with astronomy for a long time; Mao traded cow for ivory, a deal I really liked.

The very next turn, Mehmed would give compass, feudalism, and monotheism for liberalism, and that was it for that round of trading. Interestingly, Mehmed offered nothing for Nationalism after I researched it in 1605.

The other continent seemed embroiled in almost constant warfare, which I kept out of. In 1607, Caesar adopted emancipation, and one other civ followed, creating a big happiness problem in my larger cities as I worked through constitution (finished in 1630) and democracy (fininshed in 1670, followed by an immediate revolution into universal suffrage and emancipation). Without hereditary rule, happiness problems would continue leading me to research drama (only one turn at this point) to resort to the slider for a brief period of time.

Mehmed would take democracy for guilds (more health), gunpowder, horseback riding, and 60 gold, after which I earned the anticipated WFYABTA (yes, I am now in the top half on the power graph!). My self-research path lost focus here as I addressed smaller immediate needs (drama, literature, optics for whale happiness, then chemistry to start working on defenses). I wonder if periods like this are what keep me from 19th century spaceship launches.

Some luck in 1715: we discover gems in mines our people have been working for thousands of years. Would that we could have discovered them earlier. . . but still, the whale and the gems help, as does the importation of religions into cities intentionally left without them: we gained Islam and Christianity, and began spreading them to our larger cities for the happiness bonuses under free religion.

After chemistry, I research astronomy. When researched, I gain 30 gold/turn from the overseas trade routes alone with the research slider set to 70&#37;. Note to self: astronomy is an important part of economy building; research it earlier.

I finish off the economics focus with economics and corporation. In 1758, Ramesses offers broadway musicals for fish. I take it, muttering about how technologically backward I still am.

I go for scientific method and biology, a tech which none of the AIs seem to have. Biology nets me steel from Mao and steam power from Caesar. I follow up with replaceable parts, hoping to get a bit more out of the massive forests to the north of the capital. Then, I decided to stop and take a break. I've made some mistakes--neglecting to grow a great prophet for a Confucian shrine is probably the biggest, as that could have been an easy 10 gold/turn had I been thinking.

Despite bonehead moves like that, things are looking good--not InvisibleStalke good, but good:

LonelyShaka1798map.jpg


Here is my current city activity:

LonelyShakaCityList1798.jpg


And the rather impressive demographics screen, showing my total economic dominance even with a middle-of-the-pack population:

LonelyShakaDemograpics1798.jpg


I plan on going for a computer-first space race given that I am still 4-6 techs behind the leaders. The next round should be fairly straightforward if I can avoid an invasion--so far, no one is less than cautious toward me, so the careful diplomacy seems to be paying off.

The save file:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/95757/Lonely_Shaka_AD-1798.CivWarlordsSave

 
I'm leaning toward normal speed on the next one as well. The space race takes such a long time on epic. And it takes me even longer than it seems to take you--I'll have to look very closely at how you managed.

As for civs, I can see any of these three as offering an interesting change of pace:

Elizabeth (philosophical and financial) makes for the ultimate hybrid economy: three GP farms or so while cottaging the rest, and the stock exchange UB (+15% wealth from commerce) kicks things into a higher around the time an isolated start would be playing catch-up. The redcoat may not see much action, but could be a good defense post-astronomy.

Frederick (organized and philosophical) has a bonus for the SE and cheap courthouses and civic upkeep, meaning that an isolated economy shouldn't be as expensive to maintain. Both the assembly plant (+2 engineers, +50% with coal) and the panzer come after contact, so won't play a factor until the endgame.

Peter's (expansive and philosophical) health bonus will be even bigger on an isolated start, and will come into play with the bigger cities that you want to get to while isolated. The UB laboratory (+2 free scientists) allows for a decent great person production even post-liberalism.

I like all three leaders--since I play one city challenges quite often, I find myself playing Peter off line quite a bit, which might lead me to prefer one of the other two for this game. I'm happy to be swayed in one direction o the other. I'm not picky, and will probably be playing through some starts after I finish this game and the GOTM.
 
I think you are in a pretty good position to win from here. Try beelining Computers next. If you still feel you are behind in tech go to Fibre Optics after that and build the Internet. Remember its a tech race to win and the AI slow down a lot on the final techs.

You probably meandered quite a bit more around the tech tree than I would have - after steel I think I went scimethod, physics, electricity, radio and then mass media, trading my beelined techs for others along the way. I did reach the "You are too advanced" status too, but the beeline gets you into a new age and you can work a couple of AIs to friendly to keep trading going.
 
I agree with InvisibleStalke. Computers beeline is you best shot ( it will give the final push into research, that will be your bottleneck in space race (not production). On the other hand, I don't think that you'll need badly of internet but having it may be a lifesaver ( I&#180;ve got it in my game and gave me 2 space techs ). Curiously I never got the "too advanced" status to anyone (not a lot of tech trades in the beginning ( no techs from my side to trade ) and no tech trading in the end ( AI don't trades space techs :mad: ). I was only able to trade techs in the industrial age. And because of that I needed to wander a bit in the tech tree ( for Drama, at least), and that forced me to beeline Rocketry, not Computers (another mistake of mine...).
In short words: the game is almost won ( if you manage to stay out of the diplo mess on the main continent ) if you beeline Computers ( AI normally aren't bright enough to do that; they love Mass Media and Satellites ). Go for it.
 
@ InvisibleStalke

Impressive game. Nice teching ( 4 turns to Future tech in 1895? I really need to learn something...). You really don't worried about getting a religion ( in my offline attempt I tried to do that, with poor results) and have less concerns about city :) than me. You had some extra luck too ( two geminated cooper mines? :eek: I only got two extra gold mines late in game (If it was early ...)) but your game is far better than mine. Maybe a hard beeline to Optics is a better move in Isolation than developing alone...
 
I also tried this game yesterday (didn't know before that lonely heart clubs thread meant open game with isolated start playing). I launched in 1893 for a score of 20160. I beelined for liberalism could get it around 1000 AD , then had a decision to make if i'd just take nationalism (which i use to do when i play immortal) or research Machinery, Optics so that i could take Astronomy. Since it's monarch i guessed i could make it in time and that proved to be right got lib around 1200. Met Mehmet. Ramesses and Ragnar first, they had a bunch of techs like currency, music, guilds engineering etc on me. Traded for education and liberalism so i was virtually astro ahead when i met them. Nothing really extraordinary happened , i won economics race got 4000 gold which enabled me to research at 100 &#37; for 40 turns in which i built up a huge tech lead, beelined to computers for more research and refrigeration, genetics (!) for much needed health. At that time the others still didn't have physics.
After that space race was easy and a bit boring. I hardly traded with the other Ai's. I could have gone space sooner i think if i had gifted the AI's some tech so they could catch up and research some techs for me. As it is i only got railroad and democracy from them. Don't have saves unfortunately because i started a new game today which lost all the autosaves.

Isolated start and monarch are relaxing to play so i certainly join next game.
My favorite leader for this would be Elisabeth, Philosophical and Financial are the strongest traits IMO even more so on an isolated start. I prefer normal speed on these sort of starts unless we impose that victory should be domination.
 
Got up to 1730. Picked up democracy in 1655, running a mere 650 beakers/turn. Still well behind on techs:

ls2b0000.jpg


Cities are still small and not growing very quickly:
ls2a0000.jpg


On the other hand AIs are busy fighting. Mao and Mehmed vs Ramesses and Jules. Ragnar vs Ramesses. Tok neutral but slowly falling behind. Still a lot of teching to be done.
 
@ InvisibleStalke

Impressive game. Nice teching ( 4 turns to Future tech in 1895? I really need to learn something...). You really don't worried about getting a religion ( in my offline attempt I tried to do that, with poor results) and have less concerns about city :) than me. You had some extra luck too ( two geminated cooper mines? :eek: I only got two extra gold mines late in game (If it was early ...)) but your game is far better than mine. Maybe a hard beeline to Optics is a better move in Isolation than developing alone...

Dirk1302 had a great game based on developing first, so that may still be better than a hard beeline. I think the main thing is either to develop first up to Liberalism, OR do a hard beeline, but don't be halfhearted and do a mixture of both.

I could definitely have done better in my game with an early academy and not wasting time going for a diplomatic win with the situation so messy on the main continent.

I didn't worry about a religion at all - my starting techs and bonuses didn't suit it and it allowed me to shave a lot of techs off my beelines. With religions I think you either need to pursue them heavily and invest in lots of missionaries, or not bother. It seemed to work fine to just rely on HR for happiness.

I don't think the extra copper mines made much difference - I'd rather have had a gold mine or gems that could help with happiness and research.
 
I also tried this game yesterday (didn't know before that lonely heart clubs thread meant open game with isolated start playing). I launched in 1893 for a score of 20160. I beelined for liberalism could get it around 1000 AD , then had a decision to make if i'd just take nationalism (which i use to do when i play immortal) or research Machinery, Optics so that i could take Astronomy. Since it's monarch i guessed i could make it in time and that proved to be right got lib around 1200. Met Mehmet. Ramesses and Ragnar first, they had a bunch of techs like currency, music, guilds engineering etc on me. Traded for education and liberalism so i was virtually astro ahead when i met them. Nothing really extraordinary happened , i won economics race got 4000 gold which enabled me to research at 100 % for 40 turns in which i built up a huge tech lead, beelined to computers for more research and refrigeration, genetics (!) for much needed health. At that time the others still didn't have physics.
After that space race was easy and a bit boring. I hardly traded with the other Ai's. I could have gone space sooner i think if i had gifted the AI's some tech so they could catch up and research some techs for me. As it is i only got railroad and democracy from them. Don't have saves unfortunately because i started a new game today which lost all the autosaves.

Isolated start and monarch are relaxing to play so i certainly join next game.
My favorite leader for this would be Elisabeth, Philosophical and Financial are the strongest traits IMO even more so on an isolated start. I prefer normal speed on these sort of starts unless we impose that victory should be domination.

Impressive result. How did you play the liberalism race? Lots of lightbulbing? Cottages?
 
Mostly cottages which i planted extremely early and worked diligently. Also chopped GL and was pacifist (i founded confucianism) for some time so i bulbed paper and philo, researched education myself. When education was researched it was 12 turns to lib and next GS would appear in 10 turns. If i had decided there and then to go for astro i would have researched sailing, compass and calender ,bulbing most of lib with the GS, after this i could have researched machinery optics and the rest of lib, that would have been elegant .I didn't think of this at the time so i took of the scientists to work more cottages, researched lib till one turn was left then decided to to go for astro anyway because nationalism was useless.
 
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