Lonely Hearts Club, BtS Edition, Chapter LXXX: Isabella

[Fish Man]

@Undefeatable Pre-optics question:

Spoiler :

Did you go for monarchy or alfabet? Or was it straight to optics/astro?
I did detour to alfabet, but just self-teched optics since I got a GMerch (would probably have teched math and bulbed optics if a GSci).

Spoiler :

One more general guidline: if your BPT at 100% is 130+ by the time you start teching optics, you're doing fine. You'll probably be dead last on all demographics but you don't need to be first at anything to bulb astro and smash someone with cannons or the like. A good rule of thumb is that you should reach at least reach 130 bpt and break even at 50% pre-astro. 5-7 cities should do the trick (on the lesser end if monarchy, since then you can grow stuff as big as you want and be more "tall" with warrior garrisons, as @Lain showed in his Giggles iso playthru). Any more and it'll literally cost you 10+ gpt extra maintenance per turn. GLH or no that's not a place where you want to be.

I usually do writing before sailing. Libraries ASAP...you want 3 bulbs or 2 bulbs (astro) + academy, and then afterwards whip everything for army except food and villages or towns.

 

[Fish Man]

Spoiler :

My computer was lagging hard which made it difficult to really check up on things, and by that I mean the game got so slow clicks wouldn't register (I suspect hard drive is failing, might be time to get a new laptop soon). Replayed the last 3 turns without total UI failure...denied some trades and got a bit of cash out of it.

 

[krikav]

Sorry, had to run away, posting up to paper now then I'll respond to you @Undefeatable

Spoiler T88 - T125 :

It was just slow-paced micro teching toward optics.
At T98 I get a GMerchant at 66% odds. Was hoping for a GSci to be able to bulb optics.
I was considering using him for an golden age, and I still think this would have been a good option (probably best). Since we are SPI, golden ages isn't needed for civic swaps. But I was also thinking that my capital which is kind of low on food, would benefit from the extra food.
I also plan on a market since there is both silk and whale, so settlement of the GMerch was what I went for in the end.

@Machinery, I note that there have been 4 GGenerals spawned, very nice to see that there isn't a huge techtrading lovefest.
Religion spread is also kind of nice, with at least 1 AI each in Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism and Confucianism. The hindus seem to have a slight edge, but the Buddhist have built AP.
I built quite alot of forges, the extra happines from silver was nice, and I'll need forges eventually. But it would probably have been better to just grow into unhappines before getting optics and only then start to whip forges.

Optics at T117. Can't remember I have had an earlier date in previous games. Think I was pushing T120-T122 in NC202 Churchil?
I noted to my horror that I have once again forgot about the whale, (althought I did have time to get a workboat there in time) but all my cities could have grown abit more

First contact, I get some nice trades!

I also spot Egypt and Koreas culture, but I have not yet met them.
This practice I like. I trade for alot of small stuff with Sury here before I meet any other AI.
Sury is small, and is not likely to be a major trading partner later on, and I can afford to get him hit "We find you are getting to advanced".
However, trading for meditation was a major mistake, since it makes my GScientist unable to bulb astronomy. Now I have to get philosophy out of the way first.

I continue along the same line. Also noteworthy is that Sury and Hatty both have organized religion as their favourite civic. I can probably get both of them to friendly rather easily if I get hinduism.

Also at T122 I find Wang, and he is isolated from the others.
I sell alfabet to him for 90g.
Then I trade with Darius as well, compass for construction.

It was only here that I understod my mistake.
Was planning to trade CS and put one bulb into astro and then self-tech the rest with burocracy, but I just build an academy instead.

Then I trade for CS wth napoleon, this causes diplo problems with darius. But by now my plan is to just cozy up with the hindus. It seems the Buddhist founder is alone in that faith, and since I am Isabella it's clearly not her. It's a rather large AI so my bets are on either Charly or Justantin which are both imperialistic and tend to get large.

 

[krikav]

Spoiler T125-T130 :

At T125 I got CS from Napoleon and changed to Burocracy+Caste system. Ramped up GScientist production in a few cities.
Not sure what I will bulb with these guys (if anything?) but they can't hurt.

At T129 I think it was Hatty requests me to declare war on Justantin who I just met. And I agree. Justantin is alone in his religion and trying to keep things civil with him will only cause me a major headache with the others. Better to clarify your enemies early on.
I will probably attack Wang on his lone island first, then go for Darius. I hope to keep Justantin and the Hindu crowd in a stalemate against each other.

At T130 I get paper, and start to trade abit:
Monotheism+map+30G from Wang for compass (Don't really want to trade for small stuff like monotheism, but I really want it right now since I want to change to HR+OR now. Want OR even w/o religion because it helpt please Hatty+Sury which I hope to get to friendly rather quickly to secure future trades.

Napoleon is the first one I give Optics, just to bribe him against Justantin. He is so big that I think Hatty needs Napoleons aid, else she will lose and vassal to Justantin sooner or later and I can't let that happen.

I buy Hattys map for 105g, which feels like a ripoff, but I want to get the circumnavigation bonus right now, so I can start selling my map asap. I really want to race along teching to see if I can get something fancy with lib.

My island:
Trying to grow cities, but Barcelona, Santiago and Seville is running scientists for possible bulbs.

Their island:
Poor Sury is squashed and won't get anywhere. Likely to peace vassal to Hatty in the future.
Justantin is too big for comfort, and I'm glad that both Napoleon and Hatty is keeping him down.
I think I can afford to leave Darius alone for some time, but attacking Ectobana from Hattys land looks tempting (Pyramids are there).

Tech:
This is looking crazy good. It's not always I'm alone at paper. I get a GSci in 5 turns, and I think I'll use that one to bulb half of education. I need to get philosophy too, OR alone is unlikely to get Sury to friendly so my only chance to get Philo from a trade is if some of the other AIs get it too. I can only hope!
I think libbing astro is the best thing to do, as the traderoutes would be insane with 10 cities and TGL.
I think that hitting Wang with conqistadors is the best thing to do... but since he is isolated he is likely to be abit behind, so perhaps it's wiser to hit someone on the mainland first...?

Diplo:
I feel bad for trading CS with napoleon. If I hadn't I think I would have been able to bribe Darius on Justantin too, that would have been awesome.

 

[krikav]

@Undefeatable

Spoiler :

Yes the whales are nice here.
I think alfabet was nice, but skipping it is also possible. I build quite alot of research and think that it repaid itself nicely.

I don't have any strict policy against replayin turns, but I usually reserve that option to when I have screwed up badly, and/or when I'm in a really bad situation.
Here I don't think that any choice has been catastrophic. Getting meditation made me go for an academy and go on the path to lib astro instead of half-bulbing it. No big deal really.

Regarding libraries, yes my general aproach is also to get 3 cities capable of running two scientists up and running asap, just to get the 3 needed for an astro-bulb, and the third for either optics bulb or an academy.
On this map, however, I instead made a try for GLH and when I landed that one I just thought "well, screw libraries" and just spreaded out maximum instead. The idea is that what I might lose out in bulbs, I can make up for in raw teching power.
No clue if it is true, but that is my reasoning behind it.

I took a look at my T112 screenshot, and it seems that I'm doing 132 BPT and +6GPT at 30% slider when I'm starting optics, so it fits within the guideline you present.
I don't know everything about the city maintenence, but I usually set my slider to 0% before settling a new city, and look how the GPT change. Here on this map most cities just gave me a increase in GPT (the clam/silk island gave me a bump of over 10gpt!) although the few last decreased my GPT by about 2.
No -10GPT at all.
Perhaps this is due to the capital being so centralized on the island, and that we have such a small island so that distance maintenence isn't high?

I went into the game and took a few screenshots of the economic situation at T130, I can load back to an earlier date to look if that is interesting.

Spoiler :

 

[Fish Man]

@Undefeatable

Spoiler :

Yes the whales are nice here.
I think alfabet was nice, but skipping it is also possible. I build quite alot of research and think that it repaid itself nicely.

I don't have any strict policy against replayin turns, but I usually reserve that option to when I have screwed up badly, and/or when I'm in a really bad situation.
Here I don't think that any choice has been catastrophic. Getting meditation made me go for an academy and go on the path to lib astro instead of half-bulbing it. No big deal really.

Regarding libraries, yes my general aproach is also to get 3 cities capable of running two scientists up and running asap, just to get the 3 needed for an astro-bulb, and the third for either optics bulb or an academy.
On this map, however, I instead made a try for GLH and when I landed that one I just thought "well, screw libraries" and just spreaded out maximum instead. The idea is that what I might lose out in bulbs, I can make up for in raw teching power.
No clue if it is true, but that is my reasoning behind it.

I took a look at my T112 screenshot, and it seems that I'm doing 132 BPT and +6GPT at 30% slider when I'm starting optics, so it fits within the guideline you present.
I don't know everything about the city maintenence, but I usually set my slider to 0% before settling a new city, and look how the GPT change. Here on this map most cities just gave me a increase in GPT (the clam/silk island gave me a bump of over 10gpt!) although the few last decreased my GPT by about 2.
No -10GPT at all.
Perhaps this is due to the capital being so centralized on the island, and that we have such a small island so that distance maintenence isn't high?

I went into the game and took a few screenshots of the economic situation at T130, I can load back to an earlier date to look if that is interesting.

Spoiler :

View attachment 516270

View attachment 516271

View attachment 516272

Spoiler :

Huh, that’s interesting, maybe GLH does work wonders (ha) after all.

Eveonomically you’re a lot better off than me but my main question is...how the heck are the AIs so behind in your case??? The way things went in your save you could’ve literally bulbed astro and then libbed steel. Btw that’s worth a replay for sure in my book. But regardless...that’s simply mind-boggling, if I didn’t know any better I would’ve thought you were playing on imm. Why are the AIs in my games almost an era ahead every time, makes things soooo much more difficult .

 

[krikav]

Spoiler :

GLH is a crazy wonder, it gives you a magical boost and you don't need citizens for it in the same way that you need to get the benefit you get for pyramids. But the real strength comes from that you can alter your playstyle and just go completely bananas with settling cities.

I have checked for that possibilty that something was off with difficulty, I was suprised when I wasn't more behind, and as I was primed from the pericles game where I had to learn the AIs alfabet, I started to inquiry.
I was afraid that I might had screwed up while making the worldbuilder saves.
But here both Memphis and Tessatonica is the holy cities, so the AI really must have had their extra settler. And the settings tab says it's deity, also tech cost what they normally do, with math @ 422 beakers for example.

Regarding the AIs tech progress, was they ahead in your game at the turns of contact already?

I really try to pay attention to every trade I do at what tech I'm giving what AI, and if they can trade that away further to a third AI... If they have that possibility I can sometimes just give that tech away just to prevent the boost of the first.
In the Boudica game for example, I just gave Astro away to HC, to deny WvO and the rest of the crowd possible techs from HC.
I know you mentioned that you oftentimes gave astro away because it lured them to go for physics etc. Nice tactics, but perhaps your style of tech-trading is boosting the AIs?

If they where already ahead, I would want to credit GLH-denial of the AIs, but...

Spoiler :

Their landmass is almost round, so there isn't an abundance of coastal cities to boost them.

Who built it in your game, and have that AI been driving teching forwards?

How is the diplo screen (glance) in your game? You mentioned that the AIs where trading astro around, so they can't really hate each other.

 

[Fish Man]

Spoiler :

GLH is a crazy wonder, it gives you a magical boost and you don't need citizens for it in the same way that you need to get the benefit you get for pyramids. But the real strength comes from that you can alter your playstyle and just go completely bananas with settling cities.

I have checked for that possibilty that something was off with difficulty, I was suprised when I wasn't more behind, and as I was primed from the pericles game where I had to learn the AIs alfabet, I started to inquiry.
I was afraid that I might had screwed up while making the worldbuilder saves.
But here both Memphis and Tessatonica is the holy cities, so the AI really must have had their extra settler. And the settings tab says it's deity, also tech cost what they normally do, with math @ 422 beakers for example.

Regarding the AIs tech progress, was they ahead in your game at the turns of contact already?

I really try to pay attention to every trade I do at what tech I'm giving what AI, and if they can trade that away further to a third AI... If they have that possibility I can sometimes just give that tech away just to prevent the boost of the first.
In the Boudica game for example, I just gave Astro away to HC, to deny WvO and the rest of the crowd possible techs from HC.
I know you mentioned that you oftentimes gave astro away because it lured them to go for physics etc. Nice tactics, but perhaps your style of tech-trading is boosting the AIs?

If they where already ahead, I would want to credit GLH-denial of the AIs, but...

Spoiler :

Their landmass is almost round, so there isn't an abundance of coastal cities to boost them.

Who built it in your game, and have that AI been driving teching forwards?

How is the diplo screen (glance) in your game? You mentioned that the AIs where trading astro around, so they can't really hate each other.

Sorry for late reply...computer crashed on startup and civ4 froze up like 3 times .

Spoiler :

They were slightly ahead than in your situation when I met, yes. Most of them had machinery at that point and I think 2-3 had compass. Darius had optics IIRC?

This was my t130 tech situation.

Just checked and Persia has GLH. Well, guess I know who I'm gonna go for now.

For the most part I got pretty fair trades for astro. CS + philo + map and gold, IIRC, and then guilds + engineering for astro + paper. Darius gave astro to Hatty as a warbribe against Nappy, which...I guess that's better than a straight up tech trade? I checked and their stacks are all really pathetic, so Nappy should be able to hold them off for at least a bit. There are still 3 people missing astro at t158.

 

[krikav]

@Undefeatable

Spoiler :

I'm comparing the tech screens, and I don't think that they are that much ahead in your game really. Perhaps some diff, but they have mostly just gone different paths. In my T130 situation two AIs have guilds and two have engineering.
In your situation noone has guilds and only one has engineering.
What I think have happend, is that in my game Justantin (which was a lone ranger) founded Christianity and no other AI bothered to go for theocracy, and thus noone continued to paper.

I bet that in your save, Darius or possibly Hatty went for Theocracy, and then onwards to paper. They both have stone and it's likely that one of them build Univ of Sankore early and then started trading away paper like mad.
Just like in my game now, where that scumbag Napoleon have given optics to everyone. >_<

Hard to say if Darius really benefitted from GLH in your save, he has 4 coastal cities? It could be more important that in my game he was alone in Judaism, and in your game he was Hattys buddy.
The only real friendly group in my game where Hatty coupled with Napoleon which is a lousy techer, and then Sury which was very starved of land, this could have contributed as well.

 

[krikav]

T130-T143

Spoiler :

Rather uneventful
I put one turn into Univ of Sankhore to dissuate AIs from teching paper. (Not 100% sure this trick works, but I read about it somewhere some time ago..)
One caravel attacks Justantins trireme at 80% odds and wins (!?). To be able to get peacedeal whenever I want. (Not sure this is how it works either)

At T135 I bulb education
I probably put way to many beakers into education and lost 200 or so by this clumsyness.

I beg 20g from everyone I'm pleased with, every gold counts now. I want to keep the slider at 100%!
(I later get greedy and when I get pleased with Sury I beg for 40g and fail. >_<
There is a formula which @Kaitzilla presented in the WvO map to calculate exact how much you can beg for successfully. But I have been too lazy to learn it.
But basically, it depends on how many turns you have known the AI. So don't try to beg much if you have just met an AI as it's very likely to fail.
You can't beg again until the AI has forgotten that you begged last time, and it's a random chance that they will forget. Iirc the sweet spot is at ~24 turns. So since I begged the crowd now at T135, I should beg everyone again at T160. (Which I will no doubt forget.)

A very lucrative venture at this stage of the game is map-selling.
I thought paper was a nonsense tech prior to learning to capitalize on this. But in most games, paper really pays for itself.
First of all you can sell your map for about 150g to every AI. But once you have sold them the map initially, you can just continue to move around your caravels scouting black territory. It doesn't matter if it's just ocean or ice, the AIs will gladly pay you 10-15g each every second turn or so until the entire map is revealed.
Here I'm selling map to 5 AIs, so I get about 25-35gpt from this process. It's abit micro intensive though.

At T139 Sistine Chapel and Notredame is built (every time a wonder is built, some AI often get failgold for you to cash in on) and I'm so tempted here to sell philosophy to darius for 240g. But I really can't afford to make Napoleon like me less. I will need napoleon as a trading partner later on.

I wont try any fancy libbing. I just need Astro asap for traderoutes and happy-resources. So I'm not afraid to trade away paper/philosophy now. I'm too far ahead in the race.
Getting engineering is always super nice, as it's an expensive tech. and the road movement make your life so much easier.
Will need it eventually for chemistry too.

T140, not sure about this trade... I need to get to music for military tradition eventually. But aestethics is so cheap so it's probably a mistake of me to trade for it at this stage.
Got Hatty to friendly momentarily due to the engineering trade, she becomes pleased again a few turns later due to fair trade fadeof.
I really hope I don' thave to wait a million turns to get hindu-spread this game, as I have gambled abit on getting this crowd friendly, and will be locked out of trades if I don't.

Out of habit, I trade away paper for almost nothing. I forgot that Wang still haven't met any of the other AIs. Wang has quite alot of land and might be quite powerful. If I get confu early I might make him my best buddy instead. Would be nice to have all of my army on the main island.

Sury sure shows what a shmuck I am. Asking him for 40g!!

Now Lib->Astro is in. BPT jumped from 340 to 481 just from traderoutes.
I traded away the horse to napoleon for two happines and gold and trade for more surplus resources too. Will cancel the deal in time to build conquistadors.
I was greedy for happines and traded clam for incense with wang and this was a mistake.

Generally, it's good to "lock up" the AIs resources in trades with you, if you don't they might trade with each other, and thus make those resources unavailable for you later. But here I can get 3 happines from Napoleon and Darius, and I won't need the fourth from wang for quite some time.
And since he is isolated, the incense isn't going to be traded away to anyone else.
As it is now, I just gave him the health bonus from the clam without any benefit on my own.

I don't know what to tech now really... Litterature quickly to make me able to trade for music when opportunity shows?
Should I go drama instead, which has some trading value in itself?
Wait to trade for drama with hatty?
I'll get 3 GScientists within the comming 40 turns, but the only things I can bulb now is first printing press, which I am likely to be able to trade for, and then Scientific Method...
Perhaps I should swap focus to merchants instead and hope that I get such?
I need Music, nationalism, gunpowder and military tradition, but I don't really know what makes most sense to start teching, and what I am likely to be able to trade for.
Perhaps go Nationalism->MT myself and hope to trade for gunpowder?
Since Nationalism enables Taj, that might be more difficult to trade for, or is it even worse with gunpowder which unlocks military units?
I'll probably go on teching Nationalism, and hope I get friendly with Hatty soon, and trade for drama and music so I can continue with MT after nationalism is done.
If I don't get any gunpowder trade then I'll just self-tech that too.

 

[Fish Man]

@Undefeatable

Spoiler :

I'm comparing the tech screens, and I don't think that they are that much ahead in your game really. Perhaps some diff, but they have mostly just gone different paths. In my T130 situation two AIs have guilds and two have engineering.
In your situation noone has guilds and only one has engineering.
What I think have happend, is that in my game Justantin (which was a lone ranger) founded Christianity and no other AI bothered to go for theocracy, and thus noone continued to paper.

I bet that in your save, Darius or possibly Hatty went for Theocracy, and then onwards to paper. They both have stone and it's likely that one of them build Univ of Sankore early and then started trading away paper like mad.
Just like in my game now, where that scumbag Napoleon have given optics to everyone. >_<

Hard to say if Darius really benefitted from GLH in your save, he has 4 coastal cities? It could be more important that in my game he was alone in Judaism, and in your game he was Hattys buddy.
The only real friendly group in my game where Hatty coupled with Napoleon which is a lousy techer, and then Sury which was very starved of land, this could have contributed as well.

Spoiler :

Hmm, you're right. That's a really good analysis. I guess I was just alarmed by the fact that a lot of them had a clear shot at edu->lib even when I first met them.

t185:

Capped Darius and Hatty with conks and cavs. Justinian is starting to run away and took Surry as peacevassal(!) but it actually isn't too bad...I suspect he's working on rifling or steel but is missing both at the moment, and has neither steam power nor electricity. He warred Hatty and I think very nearly capped her, except I stole a city from underneath him and then took 2 the next turn to be her master instead. If he'd gotten the capitulation things would have been more difficult, but as it stands, my mounted army healed just enough to move in at the last second and cause enough damage. I could probably get Darius to tech steel for me in a very short period of time, and then use the new cities I got to whip cannons en masse, trading steel + communism for rifling + corporation. Then if need be I can reach artillery very shortly after.

My main concern is Justin plotting on me and/or peacevassaling Nappy. To prevent either from happening I can take certain civic/religion-swapping measures and then beg, but not being in FR is kinda like shooting myself in the foot right now. However...maybe theocracy isn't too bad. All the big continent cities I captured have Buddhism which means free CRII for cannons whipped from them.

 

[krikav]

T143-T173

Spoiler :

Did a few astro resources trades and started to grow cities and tech everything needed for conquistadors. Nationalism, gunpowder, litterature, music, military tradition and horseback riding.
Had dirty rotten luck, and didn't get a single trade.
I could have traded for music with hatty, but the only thing I could give at that point was astronomy, and I didn't want to dent my monopoly.

I did get some things on the way to rifling however.

The turn I got astro, I started building a party consisting of 2 macemen, 2 galleons and 2 settlers. 2 existing workers also joined the boats.
I settle only 2 cities here, because if you go over 2 cities you start paying astronomical colonial expenses. But 2 cities is fine.
These cities cost me about 10-20gpt, but they will start to pull their own weight eventually, and it can be important to grab strategic resources such as oil/coal/uranium.
If I was very worried about maintenence, I could simply grant independance to these two cities too. (Domestic screen)

I get a GSci, and I don't want to bulb PP as it's very easy to trade for. Likewise with Scientific Method.
I should probably have done a GA with this fellow, but I just settled him in the capital.

Just a couple of turns later, Wang gives me PP for CS+Education.

Oh, I had hopes of getting Hinduism early.
I would have been OK with confu too, and would alter my plans and become buddy with Wang instead.
Hell, even Buddhism/Judaism I could have done something with.
But this are the lemons I get. Now I'm just waiting for Islam to show up too.
Is there something in the code, which make non-state religions more easy to spread? O_o
Is there some trick to increase likelyhood of spread?

When I have just 1 turn left to tech gunpowder, Darius decides to troll me.
When I saw this, I realized that Darius or Hatty have teched PP and have already traded it away.
So I gift PP (and Nationalism) to Napoleon and Sury.
I do this to deny Darius and Hatty Chemistry, since I think it's likely that they will trade away chemistry to get PP/nationalism.
Abit paradoxical to gift the AIs techs to slow them down, but I think it works.

I'm only one turn away from gunpowder now, so I swap civics and will whip about 8 galleons which have been pre-built in most cities. Such that I can start spamming conqs right away.
I also realize that it was a complete waste to be in organized religion for the last... 30? turns. That have costed me 20gpt just in civic upkeep.

Just whipping all cities except capital to the ground. I want many conqs!
Now I stop and think about trades....
I forgot to screenshot every one, but from memory, the next turn I do follow through with:
lib+MT for scimeth with Wang.
I also traded astro and lib away for constitution and chemistry, but I forgot with whom.

 

[krikav]

T174-T181

Spoiler :

I'm starting to think that it was a mistake to start whipping conqs. And I'm puzzled by cuirs in general... It must be a razor-thin window where they work. And I probably can't handle the timings.
I think I would have been way better off if I just had continued to tech to cavallery right away.
But anyway...

At T174 I felt ready. Darius is nasty and already has grenadiers, but his army is no doubt thinned out since he has been at war with Napoleon and Sury for quite some time.
I hit the pyramids city on turn one since I really want police state to continue whipping.

But one more thing before declare too... I want your tech Darius!

And I don't want Hatty and Justantin to just have a calm time either. Nono, more action please! Kill your armies against each other!

This was a perticular nasty fight. Lost quite alot of conqs here. about 30% odds against them grenadiers.

This one was "abit" easier though. Thanks for the help buddies! <3

This one was quite insane. I think I lost 4 70% fights in a row.

Thank you Hatty, now I can use my gold to upgrade instead.

 

[Fish Man]

T174-T181

Spoiler :

I'm starting to think that it was a mistake to start whipping conqs. And I'm puzzled by cuirs in general... It must be a razor-thin window where they work. And I probably can't handle the timings.
I think I would have been way better off if I just had continued to tech to cavallery right away.
But anyway...

At T174 I felt ready. Darius is nasty and already has grenadiers, but his army is no doubt thinned out since he has been at war with Napoleon and Sury for quite some time.
I hit the pyramids city on turn one since I really want police state to continue whipping.
View attachment 516361

But one more thing before declare too... I want your tech Darius!
View attachment 516362


And I don't want Hatty and Justantin to just have a calm time either. Nono, more action please! Kill your armies against each other!
View attachment 516363

This was a perticular nasty fight. Lost quite alot of conqs here. about 30% odds against them grenadiers.
View attachment 516364

This one was "abit" easier though. Thanks for the help buddies! <3
View attachment 516366

This one was quite insane. I think I lost 4 70% fights in a row.
View attachment 516367

Thank you Hatty, now I can use my gold to upgrade instead.
View attachment 516368

Spoiler :

Nice turnset! I was wondering though...why not trade MT to Darius after capping him? Your conks would surely have an easier time against knights than cuirs?

Lucky for you no runaways. Justin's a mammoth waiting to be unleashed on my map...

 

[krikav]

T182

Spoiler :

Darius capitulated this turn. And this is the situation:
I got a couple of very nice cities. I have to keep everything as my home island is really starting to hit it's limits with how much more I can whip.
Otherwise, I think it's nice to gift back cities to vassals, since they get the benefit from them right away (no lengthy period of revolt).

The homeland, I'm starting to spread both hindu and confu at least abit.

The price I paid for Darius cities.

Tech situation.
I won't tech much for a long time. I need every gold I can to upgrade conqs.
But I plan to let Darius tech communism for me while I snail abit of beakers into it, hopefully I can trade replaceable parts or rifling for that later on.
I think it makes sense to go for Justantin next, since he is big but abit behind in tech and is likely to be the softest target, and also Hatty might have reduced his army abit.

 

[krikav]

Spoiler :

@Undefeatable Yes, that would proably have been better. I lost quite alot of conqs against his upgraded knights. My reasoning was that I would get pyramids and swap into police state, I wanted to get into free market at the same time.
Since he was long away from rifling I wasn't that worried, but I proably should have been.
An extra trade route per city was not that important for me either, since it would only have been extra domestic ones as many of them was starting to get into merc.
Just a mistake along with many others.

How does your "lost units" table look? I suspect you fared better?
How bad of a shape is your homeland?

Regarding runaway yes abit of luck I guess. But I did pay attention to it right away too. One of the first things I did after optics contacts where to bribe Napoleon against Justantin who was bashing on Hatty.
I'm by no means out of the water yet. Wang is abit of a danger, but it's nice that he is somewhat landlocked. But Sury might capitulate to him which would be abit problematic.

Also, with Darius as a vassal, Napoleon is no fan of me anymore. In fact... Almost noone likes me anymore.

 

[krikav]

@Undefeatable

Spoiler :

Justantin is starting to look scary in your game, yes. And Nappy seem to be of no help either.

Very nice to get both Darius and Hatty as vassals that quickly, if your army is severely diminished you could consider just gifting them all their cities back, gift them rifling and wait for just a couple of turns and then declare on Justantin.
Should probably scout Justantins army out first, but I think that their combined power would be too much for Justantin to handle. Especially if you ride around with the cavallery and support where it's needed.
I suspect this approach would slow him down enough for you to get breathing space to regroup.

Regarding your diplo situation, you have some options. You can run theocracy and no state religion, if you don't want to make napoleon or wang angry. Or you can just run whatever you want and when you see Justantin start plotting you can then swap into buddhism and theocracy if thats enough to get him to pleased and make a safety-beg.

 

[elmurcis]

Spoiler :

I settle only 2 cities here, because if you go over 2 cities you start paying astronomical colonial expenses. But 2 cities is fine.

Couldn't resist here... I'm not sure how colony maintence changes depending on map size (distance changes a lot ofcourse) but 3rd city on another landmass still is cheap (can talk about Huge map though, sorry if its a lot more expensive here). Only 4th makes all 4 to become more expensive (proportion is like - 1 unit for 2 cities, 3 units for 3 cities and 8 units for 4 cities etc., colony maintence cap is 2x distance maintence (yes, yes, same size "colony" is cheap next to palace but can literally crash economy other side of Globe unless build FP in the middle of that landmass to minimize distance maintence) but that is reached at some 8 or 9 cities only)
Anyway - love these replays, fun to follow
.

 

[krikav]

Thanks @elmurcis ! I am not all too sure anymore. Perhaps its the fourth city that starts to get very expensive, or it could be as you say, that it is dependent on map size.
Thanks for following and joining in on the fun!

 

[Fish Man]

@Undefeatable

Spoiler :

Justantin is starting to look scary in your game, yes. And Nappy seem to be of no help either.

Very nice to get both Darius and Hatty as vassals that quickly, if your army is severely diminished you could consider just gifting them all their cities back, gift them rifling and wait for just a couple of turns and then declare on Justantin.
Should probably scout Justantins army out first, but I think that their combined power would be too much for Justantin to handle. Especially if you ride around with the cavallery and support where it's needed.
I suspect this approach would slow him down enough for you to get breathing space to regroup.

Regarding your diplo situation, you have some options. You can run theocracy and no state religion, if you don't want to make napoleon or wang angry. Or you can just run whatever you want and when you see Justantin start plotting you can then swap into buddhism and theocracy if thats enough to get him to pleased and make a safety-beg.

Spoiler :

Another thing I've learned from @Lain : unless you have HC with 15 cities or Supermansa on your side, never trust an AI to do a human's job. Remember how well that Mansa game turned out? Not so good...

And this is more of a numbers problem than anything else. I saw these 2 armies while I was on the way to take out France...already his stack size is in the 70s-80s (WB'd a couple workers to show you just how freakin' huuuuge they are). Not something I want to deal with before artillery or cannons at least...

Oh and he just got steam power, pretty sure he's gonna get pre-1400AD infantry. One reason why Justin is dangerous is because of his high military flavor; you better count on him going straight for rifling, AL, artillery, all that nasty stuff instead of electricity and radio (OTOH...I think I once saw Hammy go straight for mass media and ignore everything past longbows).

Good news: his stacks are both somewhere I can hit at on the first turn of the war. A dozen or two artillery and all the crap he has will be toast.

Even better news: it seems I'm 20 votes short of winning an AP victory outright, and I'm not even in Hinduism.

If I wanted to it really does seem like I can win in 12 turns the cheesy way ...which is not as cheap as it sounds since Justin has a big army and good teching pace but he's no HC from last game; with my 3 vassals (France added to the list) I can pressure him from almost every direction, so barring some major mistake or upset I think this game might be already won regardless.

What is it with runaways in my games...can someone analyze this further? I feel like it's more luck than anything, since I doubt Justin would be so far behind in your playthrough if he got 15 cities. Yes, I aggressively trade techs away...but sometimes I have to do that to get the stuff I need when I need it. And if I don't use my tech advantage I would lose it regardless. And besides I try to make every deal as profitable for me as possible...no use holding on to astro if 1 or 2 other AIs get it and then start handing it around like candy :/.