Lonely Hearts Club, BTS Edition, Chapter VI: Pericles

[pawelo]

My experience with Ramesses instructed me about is late game: he always pursues the late cultural wonders and the UN and tries to win both culturally and by diplo. That's why that, in my game , I GE rushed Broadway ( not my favourite move , but I think it was fundamental ) and built Eiffel ( I knew that he was after them for cultural... the simple fact that he had to build the broadcast towers instead of having them for free delayed him a lot ).

Thanks a lot for this one!
I have completely forgotten to check this one - I think I will put in place an infantry invasion force and place it nearby the egyptian coast just in case.

 

[ungy]

took the immortal save--played till 800 (actually past the first checkpoint).

Spoiler :

6 cities pyramids, GLH, Glib. 2 on west. Health a problem. CS just in--decided to forgo my normal lib path and beeline astro. Since I have a bunch of crappy coastal cities with 2 extra trade routes need astro bad. Land is not great--curious as to how this one will work out.

 

[LlamaCat]

pawelo tough break on the AP ... that is such a fickle victory condition but despite its controversy I like it in the game. What I hate is how sometimes colonies start popping up too fast for me to send missionaries to get everyone in the fold. At least this map does not really allow that possibility. I would definitely go after Charlemagne if I were you... if nothing else just for fun.

 

[pawelo]

@LlamaCat

I think I'll do as you advised.
If you have checked three latest LHC, I'm always trying to get the AP, and still miss it by a point or two. This one was the closest - shouldn't the HRE DoW me, the vote was in the pocket. I think I'll drop this objective for the next LHC.

 

[pawelo]

Monarch, final checkpoint

Btw, GOTCHA, my 1st monarch win. I join LlamaCat in the 1st wins on LHC VI club

Spoiler :

Well, I must admit that it wasn't that hard.

But it hurt a lot in terms of self-esteem.

Noticing Ramesses going for culture (like r_rolo predicted), Cyrus going for space with superior capacity, I was left with a dillema. Yep, I had the edge for space, but only four cities were somehow able to cope with parts construction, even if in Golden Age (almost all my GP went that way - the last one costed me 4 of them).

It left the diplomacy, while controlling Ramesses (I had 4 transports full of Infantry, Tanks and Modern Armor ready, though he had still a long way - at least 50 turns - to go) and Cyrus - more difficult, only possible to slow him by setting up a war.

I was already in good terms with Augustus Caesar and Cyrus, but still missing about 5% to the diplo victory. Ramesses having built the UN, it left me with a nice threesome :
- Charlemange the backstabber
- Hammy, Charlemagne's puppet
- Churchill

I switched to Free Religion, regardless of my beutiful religious wonders .

Now it was time to drop the pants and become the best giveaway in town.

And they came.

I switched to Vassalage to please Charlemagne, to Bureaucracy to please Hammy (about 20 turns later) - regardless the anarchy time.

I gifted away three techs to Hammy, two to Charlemagne and a record 4 to Churchill, offering them such useless techs like Radio, Flight, Industrialism and Satellites...

Yep, it hurts to win.
But when it comes:





OK I hadn't found more of them, and am limited to 20...

Well, it took time and proper esteem, but just glance at these beutiful relations:



Score-wise it's not great (less then my today's dom victory in Ozbenno's MLG3) but hey, it's a Monarch win anyway :

r_rolo1, great thanks for setting this one up!
I had a great fun, and am awaiting next one impatiently.
Financial would be great - it's been a long time, and philo is getting quite annoying.

Lonely Mansa someone ?

 

[r_rolo1]

Nice win pawelo ( that is why I hate Diplo victories : my shiny new techs.... no , theiy're mine, all mine! ). But I have to agree that your glance screen looks nice ( so much greens.... )

And about next leader, I was thinking more on Darius...... but I can be convinced of otherwise, of course . Besides that, a big caveat of playing Mansa is that you're sure that he's not outhere teching like a mad man and gifting military techs to Monty or Shaka....

 

[ungy]

Well I manage to blow this one (immortal).

Spoiler :

I was doing OK--even after going for caravels I end up with lib--astro. I'm still missing 2 cities (one barb) on the west half but I'll fill it in soon. I foolishly delay a bit taking nat and drafting up a bunch of rifles as the AI with astro are pleased and not too aggressive. Big mistake. My buddy Churchill starts it off and next turn I get dogpiled by his 3 friends. I give it up. Pretty challenging as there was not too much food but I had good chances--just took a stupid gamble.

 

[r_rolo1]

Too bad, ungy Your game from 800 was quite impressive for immortal level ( maybe someday I'll get there )...

 

[ungy]

Too bad, ungy Your game from 800 was quite impressive for immortal level ( maybe someday I'll get there )...

thanks. Was disappointing as I feel like a blew it.

 

[illram]

Wow... banished to page 2? Cultural monarch win, 1948. Very peaceful game, everything went pretty smoothly. I guess you would call this checkpoint 1-4...

Spoiler :

From the outset I wanted to play an SE game to take advantage of Pericles' traits. I never play straight SE, but in this game I went all farms, building about 3 or so cottages on my main continent, and maybe 6 or 7 more on my second continent by the end of the game. (I obviously built the pyramids!) I have NEVER done a 100% SE with no cottages before, but I was able to maintain a good tech lead early and get the techs I needed late for the culture win. I basically just did Rep, CS, Pacifism, and FS and spammed farms and scientists everywhere. My capital was full of GS, I don't believe I bulbed anything except education.

When it became apparent that my continent was small, I began thinking culture win. It goes nicely with an SE in isolation as you can set the culture slider high, keep the science at 0%, and still be progressing through the tech tree. (Commerce for culture comes from sea tiles and trade routes instead of cottages.) No need to whip units for defense, so slavery isn't as important. The only problem is you can't whip temples if you are running CS.

Astro and healthy trade routes are a must, otherwise the culture slider is worthless as you aren't getting any commerce. My two legendary cities besides the capital were on the coast, which meant I could get lots of commerce from trade routes, boost them with harbors and custom houses, and work the coastal tiles. No cottages needed!

It's hard to really outline a game all the way through in one post. I guess I'll just briefly show my start, middle, and end:

Sooo... here was my opening tech route:



Mining and BW were first for the gold and to chop a quick settler so I could get started on the pyramids. I chopped all the forests around the capital as I wanted workers and settlers fast so my capital could concentrate on wonders. I went the usual worker-worker-settler route. I didn't get pottery till late, as I wanted farms and to hook up my resources. Once I took care of the important stuff (ag, ah, writing) I went for priesthood. I pretty much farmed and mined everything. I wasn't too worried about getting many cities out early, I wanted to concentrate on farming my GPs and building the wonders I wanted: Pyramids, Oracle, GL, and Sistine Chapel.

My early empire:



I was disappointed in the other half of the continent. Still, this game has MUCH better land than the last game... ugh...

I got two GEs total, 1 went to the GL and one went to the Sistine Chapel. This was my capital after I built the GL:



I also built the Oracle in 900BC (!) which I thought was pretty late. I took confucianism since I thought I might go cultural and needed the religion. I also founded Taoism.

I discovered Lib in 1210 and swithced to FS immediately. I realized then that I had FORGOT to switch to bureau that whole time, but no biggie because I had very little commerce in my capital anyway as it was mainly a GP farm:



First contact, I was ahead tech wise. This pic was after some initial trades as well:



Once I started trading more heavily, the AI really started running away with the techs. I have generally noticed that trading education really allows an AI to advance quickly, probably because they spam universities and it gets them right to economics and corporation, which they prioritize. I also stupidly traded SM before I had physics and lost the free GS to Ramessess by about 2 turns.

I beelined Bio and got it by 1675, it let me really spam those scientists all over the place:



Founded Sushi. I planned on spamming it to Cyrus and Ramesses as well as using it in my 3 culture cities:



The only trade I didn't make was mass media because I didn't want any UN shenanigans. They tried anyway. Cyrus desperately tried to win a diplo victory, didn't work out for him though:



Sorry bud. Also on the diplomacy side, everyone wanted to sign defensive pacts with me even though I was extremely weak. I thought this was interesting and mildly useful. I never usually sign them but everyone was pleased with one another so I wasn't worried about the pact actually kicking into effect. It actually benefited me most, as I was probably the most likely to get declared on by Hammurabi. He was thoroughly annoyed with me the entire game. He never did invade, thank god. (Although by the end it wouldn't have mattered as I had a fair amount of infantry, artillery, and airships.) There was ONE war the entire game , and it was Cyrus v. Charlemagne. In typical AI fashion Cyrus "stopped the war against Charlemagne" with the UN 3 turns after he declared it.

These were my legendary cities 1 turn before the win:







They were also my 1st, 2nd, and third founded cities respectively. I didn't build a Taoist shrine as I only had one GP the entire game, but the Confucian shrine really didn't do much anyway.

Notice how capital heavy my research was.



Good thing no one nuked me!

My continent:



The second half of the continent had pretty crappy land, so I just cottaged and mined everything. I wasn't too concerned with the fact that Augustus settled the desert, my culture still took the Oil that was down there. (Augustus really ran away with the wonders this game.)

Woohoo! Victory...





15K, yay...

All in all satisfying, as this was only my second culture win ever. (First was also LHC with Ethiopia.) I was able to do it with only two religions, and I started building temples and academies late. I think these isolated starts are perfect for culture wins as long as you can get some religion, since you have so long to just sit there, build missionaries, work on spreading your religion and building infrastructure. I think this was the first game I ever played where I was not involved in a single war.

No thoughts on next leader, as usual. Since we are isolated the only unique thing about one leader from the next is their buildings... are there any unique buildings we haven't really explored yet? Any UB's that could really help out in isolation?

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

Wow... banished to page 2? Cultural monarch win, 1948.

How many GP did you produce (or if you prefer - how many GP points were required for the next?

 

[Jet]

Immortal

Spoiler :

Felt very easy for immortal (where I almost always lose.)

Initially: settled in place, popped 2 scouts, built worker and 2 warriors, settled Sparta (in the middle), then built Pyramids.
With the rich resources it didn't look like I'd need the culture slider much (and I never did use it.) Built a mix of cottages and farms. Ran 2 scientists in a couple cities until they popped (which took a long time.)
BC: 2-4 cities, pyramids (1320), great lighthouse (600), hanging gardens (175). Rep + Slavery after Pyramids.
AD:
50 rushed GL
540 rushed Parthenon
225 won music
800 won philosophy, no bulb. holy city sparta, in the middle
900 farmed level 4 unit from barb city on W island
980 popped calendar from hut on W island
1010 angkor wat
1070 Bureau + OR + Taoism
1230 Sankore
1260 most cities settled. research ~10% but holding up from scientists.
1300-1600 meet churchill, hammurabi, cyrus. They're slow on liberalism techs and I get some twofers. Get DP from Cyrus on first contact.
1630 Democracy, Oxford in Athens
1700 Moai + Heroic Epic in Corinth
1710 Rifling. Turn off science for upgrades.
1720 Music Artist GA=> finish SOL and switch to Free Speech + Emancipation + Free Trade + Free Religion. Did snag one other religion (never built missionaries) but never used it.
1785 biology
1828 radio. miss broadway by a few turns.
1832 cyrus cancels DP and attacks Augustus. DP continues off and on. AI skirmishes continue off and on. I maintain neutrality and fight no wars.
1850 assembly line and the eiffel tower.
1878 rocketry, 8 turns for apollo in FP/IW city (Rhodes, on W island; saved forests).
1888 finally finish wall street in Sparta
1896 superconductors
1904 genetics
1906 vote yes on environmentalism - passed
1924 composites
1937 fusion (not first)
1939 ecology
1945 last minute GA
1948 launch
1958 win

Great people:
1 artist (music) GA
2 engineers rushed Parthenon and G Library
2 settled merchants (1 in Athens, 1 in Sparta after Taoism)
1 academy scientist
1 shrine prophet
7 settled scientists
2 late merchant missions
1 scientist + 1 merchant final GA

Athens: Oxford, NE (very late, afterthought). Mix of cottages and farms required for max growth.
Corinth: Moai + HE
Sparta: Wall St (late), Globe Theater (very late)
Rhodes: FP + IW
Miletos: NP (late, settled as afterthought to use spare forests)

 

[Jet]

@illram - nice game.

No thoughts on next leader, as usual. Since we are isolated the only unique thing about one leader from the next is their buildings... are there any unique buildings we haven't really explored yet? Any UB's that could really help out in isolation?

Mehmed? and and cheap buildings that you want. Workers. Somewhat timely UU worth more on the power graph than regular Musketmen.

Hannibal. But Hannibal's always the man.

 

[r_rolo1]

Nice game Jet.... Pericles is really a strong SE leader ( even I ,a SE noob, could pull a a sustainable SE until the end, even with the Emancipation ).... I was impressed with his fast teching even in isolation.

 

[Jet]

Philosophical with Stone...
Generally I think the resources on this island were quite good, for an island,

 

[illram]

@ VoU

24 GPs. 16 GS, 3 GA, 1 GP, 2 GE, 2 GM. I did a Golden Age with one scientist, built an academy with one, bulbed education with one, and settled all the rest. GMs founded the food corps, GEs built wonders, GP built a shrine, and 1 GAs was settled while the other two performed great works in Corinth. All were farmed except for one GA from Music.

@Jet

Thanks, not too shabby yourself.

I'm up for trying Mehmed or Hannibal, the Hammam would definitely come in handy in isolation in case of a lack of resources.

Come to think of it, any civ with a UB that replaces harbors or Custom Houses would be useful for an isolated start. Jao was a good example of that. (Although I lost that one.)

 

[tycoonist]

pericles is one of the bestleaders in the game, IMO.
but... WAIT!!! i haven't finished my game yet. :wink:

mehmed is growing to be one of my favourite leaders thanks to the Hammam. Luckily his UU comes late enough that it might get some use.

 

[unkle]

Hi,

wanted to try but cannot load the emperor save. Is it BTS 3.13 ? If it is then I probably should start looking into dual install setup...

 

[r_rolo1]

^^yup, all the saves are 3.13 ( I use Bhruic patch, so i don't care too much about the "issues" from 3.13 patch.....)

 

[unkle]

Ok got the dual install setup to play *OTM also.
But now I am curious... I need to check what Bhruic's patch solves, and if I am willing to install it...