Long Winded Changes (LWC) Mod

The LWC Mod v0.7 if FINALLY AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD! Woohoo!

Many praises to Kolyana as listed in the first post in this thread :D


Gotta do some other stuff but I'll respond to other post later. Just wanted to get this out there ASAP!
 
Downloading now, :goodjob:

Thanks to the host Kolyana , and to Plutarck for making this marvelous mod. I almost hate dropping my current game but I will just to start fresh with these mods.

Runestar
 
i already have 0.5 version and i want to upgrade to o.7 but how do i do that with out downloadin the hole thing again u say to use the upgrade thing but i guess im a completer ******
how do i upgrade!!
 
About time to rest for the day, but here is what I've come up with so far for version 0.8.

As you can see Flynn, you've convinced me to try out moving the resources earlier :D

We'll see how it goes, hehe. I've also played alot with the Modern Age tech tree and changed the Spaceship Victory so it should be more difficult, require more research, and take longer to complete.


Here's what I have. It's a whole mess of changes, and I think it's a major step forward for the game:

11/27/01:

-Space Ship Victory: The SS Victory seems to be too easy and end too quickly. I believe I have rectified this with the following changes. I had a much better and longer explanation but my freakin' computer crashed before I saved...grrrr. They should be mostly self-explanatory.

-All SS pieces: Cost 4 more to build.

-SS Cockpit: Buildable with Robotics, not Space Flight. Everyone should be in stasis, and even with "common" space shuttle missions everything is almost totally controlled by computers. If you're going to Alpha Centauri you aren't going to be driving the thing with a stick or using a calculator to figure out which way you should go. Thus, Robotics is required.

-SS Stasis Chamber: Buildable with Genetics, not Synthetic Materials. Genetics is a kind of "Advanced Medical Research" tech, and putting someone in stasis requires such understanding.

-SS Storage/Supply: Buildable with Superconductor, not Synthetic Materials. Part of what is stored is Project ARK, a collection of more than 150 samples of lifeforms to be used in terraforming a planet and bringing it to early norms. These "samples" are most likely embryos and genetic information, which probably require both Synthetic Materials and Genetics to properly manipulate and store, thus SS Storage/Supply should probably require both techs to actually build it, so while it doesn't require a Superconductor to build the thing I think it's the best place to put it.

-Modern Tech Tree: I am changing the modern tech tree to further balance the Space Ship victory, improve real-world accuracy, and make it more enjoyable too. I'm also moving around some Modern units for similar reasons and to reflect the change in the tech tree.

-Superconductor: Formerly requiring Space Flight and Fission to research, it now requires Synthetic Materials and Miniaturization. SM is needed to conduct the testing and manufacture of superconductors and Miniaturization is required for the powerful computers and advanced electronics which are needed to even want to look for a superconductor, much less actually develop one.

Space Flight and Fission simply make no real-world sense as requirements, and in game-play the modern tech tree is very screwy. The Recycling path is totally unconnected to any other technologys...suffice it to say that it's just a big mess. This change improves real world accuracy and many elements of gameplay.

-Synthetic Materials: Now requires Computers to research in addition to Recycling.

-Nuclear Power: Now requires Computers in addition to Fission.

-Advanced Naval Warfare: Now requires Rocketry and Nuclear Power.

-The Laser: Now requires Miniaturization instead of Computers to research, in addition to it's Nuclear Power requirement.

-Robotics: Now requires only The Laser to research. Because The Laser now requires Miniaturization, Robotics no longer needs it as a requirement.

-Nuclear Submarine: Becomes available with Nuclear Power, not Fission.

-Modern Destroyer: Becomes available with Nuclear Power, not Fission.

-Modern Transport: Becomes available with Computers, not Miniaturization.

-Coracle: Now has 0 attack. I didn't think of it till Smazza brought up that it might be too good and annoys other civs when it's there (he had the idea for a raft unit, but I prefer the Coracle). I forgot that I could give it 0 attack, and it makes sense anyhow. The only way to attack in a Coracle is to get out and swim over to the other boat, so it makes sense to me. This also means Barbarian Galleys can attack you and you can't attack back, hehe. That's what you get for puddlin around on a twig.

-Resource Discovery: Due to the arguments from Flynn I have decided to give the idea of making resources visible earlier a chance. Due to some of his reccommended placements I feel better that it will work, and I also thought of something.

The placement of resources is now more based upon when people began to think a resource could be useful somehow, but hadn't quite decided what to do with the stuff. For instance with iron it had already been discovered and experimented with Bronze Working, but bronze was the prefered use. It wasn't until techniques improved and more smiths starting playing around with iron that it started being used to create anything, so now you can see the resource Iron with the advent of Bronze Working.

I have also changed Wine and Incense, which are luxury resources, to not being visible immediatly. But they are soon discovered...more on that below.

-Iron: Visible with Bronze Working instead of Iron Working.

-Saltpeter: Visible with Invention instead of Gunpowder. This is a hard one...anyone have a better idea for it?

-Coal: Visible with Metallurgy instead of Steam Power. This is mostly to make Metallurgy more important to research, but coal is really a charcoal like substance which surely must have been experimented with in the process of metallurgy, even if they never did find the stuff very important.

-Oil: Available with Industrialization instead of Refining. Just reading the Description in the civilopedia makes this one make sense. Crude oil had it's uses and was experimented with as a fuel during Steam Power and Industrialization, but coal was clearly the prefered fuel of choice. After refining this began to change of course, and it makes best all-around sense to give it with Industrialization.

-Rubber: Available with Electricity instead of Replacable Parts. Rubber was useful for a very long time, but it makes a really great insulator for electrical cords and wires. Makes sense to me!

-Aluminum: Available with Mass Production instead of Rocketry. I'm trying to make it coincide with when the most effective method for producing aluminum was discovered in the late 1800s, and Mass Production seems to fit in with other uses of it also. The world supply of tin didn't cause aluminum to be heavily developed until quite a while later, so it shouldn't be needed for units earlier. This method of making aluminum requires electricity, but that would be too early for it to be found MP seems like the perfect place to me.

Any better ideas?

-Uranium: Available with Atomic Theory instead of Fission. Discovered in the late 1700s, uranium is one of the most valuable metals in the world...at least now adays. Seems a perfect fit with Atomic Theory when people started spending a lot of time playing with glowing rocks and trying to figure out what they could use them for.

On a sepperate note, isn't uranium used for the manufacture of advanced conventional weapons? Hm...

-Wines: Now available with Pottery. It makes sense even though animal skins were the main container for wines, beer in fact was stored in pots in ancient egypt. I still want improvements to produce resources so I could make a Brewery which turned Barley (strategic resource would be best) into the luxury resource of Beer. So many possibilitys...maybe in Civilization 4? Riiiight...sure, let's just keep telling ourselves that.

-Incense: Now available with Mysticism. Probable the best fit with Ceremonail Burial, this still makes sense in that the primary use of incense is religious/spiritual based and I wanted to have another reason to research Mysticism.

-The Oracle: Now availabie with Polytheism instead of Mysticism.

The main reason is to make it available a little later and help give more value to Polytheism. I think an Elephant Rider kind of unit should really go in Polytheism too and perhaps change Ivory to being Elephants. I'm not sure if you can just leave it as a luxury resource or not...would be nice though, and I could set the appearance ratio of it too. It's an idea, but we'll leave it till a later date for more consideration.

Anyhow, the real-world reason for this is that The Oracle became used because of the more widespread polytheistic belief systems of Rome/Greece. Polytheism really was just an advancement on the original "mysticism" (note: common day defiinition of "mystic" and "mysticism" is most often totally different than this historical definition. The currently used definition is: Mysticism, noun - 1. Immediate consciousness of the transcendent or ultimate reality or God. The experience of such communion as described by mystics. 2. A belief in the existence of realities beyond perceptual or intellectual apprehension that are central to being and directly accessible by subjective experience.), and thus The Oracle best fits into Polytheism.
 
ok no worries i found it maybe theres hope for me yet and thx for what looks like an awesome mod:egypt: :scan: :crazyeyes :confused: :eek: :p :( :) :goodjob: :cry:
 
Woohoo!

Now I can go to bed! :)

I'll download and try it out tomorrow Plutarck. Glad I could be convincing.

Aluminum -- Mass Production works for me. Plus you can throw the whole Aluminum can thing in with it. :) (I thought about suggesting Aluminum with Recycling, just for kicks.)

And thanks for the effort to make the SS win harder. It's really kinda my eternal fallback in the game. "Oh no! I'm going to get my ass kicked! Quick, build a space ship!" :)
 
Hi,

Got an error message when I tried to install it.

" The magic number did not match "

" Please get another copy of the installer and try again. "

My Civ 3 game path is

D:\program files\inforgrames interactive\civilization 3

Would the D drive be messing it up?

Batch files are nice......I'm just not a windoze guy....

Thanks for the mod though. Both my wife and I are excited to try it. :goodjob:
 
No idea what that means...but don't select the Civ3 folder itself, just the Infogrames Interactive folder, which is one level above the Civilization III folder.

So just use the default path but change the letter from C: to D:.

Hopefully that'll work.
 
I'm still having the same problem after moving it into the infogrames folder. :(
I can't change the path as it locks up into that error message right after I double-click on it to run it.:eek:
The program runs like .3 seconds then errors. (Yes, I've timed it :p )
Any suggestions?
I used to be a computer "geek" but then I left civilization, the real one, for 4 years and when I got back, changed majors because I was sooooo far behind.
So any advice just treat me like I know nothing about computers. :(

I'm still looking forward to the mod though....
 
Hm...I really haven't a clue what's wrong there, and the ZeroG.com site doesn't list it or anything else. Hmf.

Here's something to try. Pick a folder, any folder, on your hard drive. Doesn't matter which, and just try to "install" the mod into that directory. Play around with different ones, including just picking a totally new one, and see if it will actually do it for you.

If so you can then just copy out the Civilization III folder and drop the files onto the ones you already have in your game's actual directory.


Screwy, certainly, but it might just work.
 
Why not add a "clean" factory or a famous one, that adds culture, there are alot of factory visits and people are proud to work at the clean advanced ones. I would suggest, that from factory there should be "modern or clean factory" similar to changing powerplants from waste to less waste. I think this would be really good, up to you how to decide on how to put it in the game.
 
Hey I noticed special forces don't use rail even when they got a chance to. This slows them down somewhat. I don't know if this was designed or if it was for other reasons?

Runestar
 
I believe that's a dumb bug in the game, because Special Ops Team has the "all terrain as road" flag. I wasn't aware that it would mean "even railroad squares".

I suppose the Partisan, Scout, and Explorer are all the same way. Is that correct?

Hmm...definately annoying.
 
Great job on the modpack!!! Im playing it now and love it so far. Dont know if I found a minor glitch or not being its my 1st game with the new mod.. but my resource distribution really sucks (which I know can happen sometimes), but what was interesting is that I was swamped with cotton and thats it! It was like the computer distributed it as if it was a tradable resource (i.e. groupd of 3 or 4 all close together) and put nothing else in the area...

Again... may have just been one of those games.... but has anyone else seen any cotton side effects like this in any other games?

Other than that I havent found any glitches yet!! Great mod!

Another unit idea:

Enviornmentalist:
workers that can only clean up pollution, plant trees, and pillage (i.e. greenpeace getting pissed) and possible even giving them stealth ability (to represent differebt enviromental groups that have no true national affiliation but are radicals all over the world.

Keep up the good work!! Firaxis should hire you or commisson you!!!
 
Hey Plutarck,

I must admit that I still haven't played 0.7... My girlfriend said "No way you'll install that thing before I finish my civ", so... I'm waiting :D

I don't know if I'll like the earlier resource discovery, though. I think it might remove one very important (and fun) factor of the game, if you are able to plan ahead on resources. I don't even like the fact that we are able to view the whole tech tree from the start... I like the cold chill you get when, after discovering Steam Power, and being anxious to build railroads, you find out that you have no coal... :) (yeah, call me a masochist, I don't care :b)

Another thing: don't put elephants, or you'll kill the Indians :) But if you're changing the Oracle to Polytheism, then you'd better put its expiring date a bit ahead as well (or have you already done this? I can't remember...)

Last but not least, are you still considering changing imperialism/colonialism from governments to a small wonder? Think about this:

The East (or West) India Company:
- less war weariness (10%?)
- one (two?) more units for free
- 20 gold per turn (maybe a bit more)
- Available with Colonialism

I think it's more accurate to have a government, be it what it will, that decides to go into a colonialist spree, then builds this wonder, than a whole government geared towards colonialism/imperialism. No one says that Portugal or England had a colonialist government. Portugal had an absolute monarchy with a colonialist policy, England had a constitutional monarchy with an imperialist policy.

*checks if his girlfriend has finished her civ*

Darn...
 
I got to the point of building a Nuclear submarine in v0.7 of the mod and crashed. Could this be another possible missing graphics folder problem?

In general though, I really like the changes in this version. It is much more playable than the as-shipped version of the game. I do still see a problem in distribution of strategic resources. In my current game, I share a standard size map with 4 other nations and fully occupy the largest continent. There is NO oil on this continent and the other Civs (especially Babylon, which has at least 3 of the available oil resources) are too backwards to even know they have a resoource so I cannot trade with them. I am trying to win with a scientific, diplomatic or cultural victory, so going to war over it is not an option.

Could the instance of oil be a bit more random, like your mighty stallion -- in reality, oil fields are discovered and then depleted over time. Making them more random in their appearance and dissapearance would make the game more realistic and probable balance the situation out better -- just a thought
 
Plu, great mod, playing it as I speak..err write. I was wondering if it's possible to incorporate another map with this mod? Basically I want to use an earth map with your mod; is that possible? Point me in the right direction.
 
Ol'Lincoln:

That was actually a version conflict. I'm guessing you uninstalled v0.6, or something to that effect, and that caused the Nuclear Submarine folder to be uninstalled along with it. It's because I accidentally included the Nuclear Submarine folder in that installation, but that's fixed in v0.7


The easiest way to fix it is uninstall/reinstall Civ3, then reinstall the mod again. Or you could copy the Nuclear Attack Sub folder, rename it to Nuclear Submarine, then rename the .ini file inside to Nuclear Submarine, then the game should work fine.

Nuclear Submarine is actually a default unit in the game, so the folder is included with the Civ3 game either way.


Unfortunately I can't control how spaced out resources are. I really dislike it, but unfortunately I can't control how the game clumps resources together. I can only effect how many of them there are.

However, I like the idea of making Oil be depleted alot more. Oil wells dry up all the time causing new wells to need drilling. After all, if oil didn't get used up then they wouldn't be after ANWAR :)

I think i'll try making it deplete alot more and see how that goes. That way if you don't have access to oil there's a reasonable chance that you might "discover" some in your own backyard.


Faldrath:

Haha, there's always a downside to not being the only one that plays Civ3 :D

I'm still testing out the resource discovery, but I'm trying to make it so that you'll only reveal the resource a little before you need it. Not always so easy, but we'll see how it works.



Gotta go, will answer rest later.
 
Originally posted by Plutarck
I believe that's a dumb bug in the game, because Special Ops Team has the "all terrain as road" flag. I wasn't aware that it would mean "even railroad squares".

I suppose the Partisan, Scout, and Explorer are all the same way. Is that correct?

Hmm...definately annoying.

Noticed something else with special forces, their dropzone area is 0. Not good if your trying to get them to a specific area quickly if they can only drop in their own base. :) Simple mod you might want to put into .8. They need a high area of operation. It would be nice if they could drop anywhere on the globe that'd be sweet but since I think only ICBMs can do that...


Runestar
 
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