Long Winded Changes (LWC) Mod
- Thread starter Plutarck
- Start date
KALIROB2k2
God of War
I have to agree
Odd signature. Never would have thought to translate it so thanks gorilladf. Even more fun for me trying to say that out loud heh. ((My fiancee thinks im nuts now ))Agent Roo
Chieftain
sure Mg is used in alloys. it's properties are dampened, but the "Sparkler" firework uses Mg as a key component in the stick, the sparks being generated by Fe (that's how hot it gets).
Thinking more, though, wouldn't Manganese be a better resource? i seem to remember that it is almost essential for Aircraft construction.
currently playing with the following in my mod:
Casino (improvement): needs Electricity, generates 2 happiness and +50% tax, costs 14
AA guns (improvement): needs Flight, half as effective as SAM Battery, half cost.
Heavy Bomber (air unit):needs Advanced Flight D7, OR7; B16, R0, RoF3. Currently limited to Americans, English and Russians; changing to All Nations on grounds of balance.
Jet Super Heavy Bomber (air unit): needs rocketry; D8,OR8; B32,R0,RoF4. limitations as above, also changing to All Nations for balance.
Next project is to change Panzer to Me262 fighter (i think it gives a better example of Germany's advances - the Panzers weren't really much cop)
Thinking more, though, wouldn't Manganese be a better resource? i seem to remember that it is almost essential for Aircraft construction.
currently playing with the following in my mod:
Casino (improvement): needs Electricity, generates 2 happiness and +50% tax, costs 14
AA guns (improvement): needs Flight, half as effective as SAM Battery, half cost.
Heavy Bomber (air unit):needs Advanced Flight D7, OR7; B16, R0, RoF3. Currently limited to Americans, English and Russians; changing to All Nations on grounds of balance.
Jet Super Heavy Bomber (air unit): needs rocketry; D8,OR8; B32,R0,RoF4. limitations as above, also changing to All Nations for balance.
Next project is to change Panzer to Me262 fighter (i think it gives a better example of Germany's advances - the Panzers weren't really much cop)
KALIROB2k2
God of War
Thats a good point Agent Roo. I think Manganese might be an over looked resource. Oh also I like the Casino idea, makes the game seem more true to real life. 
About resources:
Yes, manganese is used a lot, especially in heavy duty machinery like drills, ploughs and excavators. I do not know about any military applications, though.
To qualify as strategic, I think that a resource should have played a great role in political history. The eight ones in original Civ 3 have, but are there any else?
About the translation of my signature (off-topic):
Do you seriously believe that these auto-translators work? English and German are not that compatible. Another formulation would be: "The men, who load boxes in front of the chocolate-shop, ask shop-girls for a dance."
Yes, manganese is used a lot, especially in heavy duty machinery like drills, ploughs and excavators. I do not know about any military applications, though.
To qualify as strategic, I think that a resource should have played a great role in political history. The eight ones in original Civ 3 have, but are there any else?
About the translation of my signature (off-topic):
Do you seriously believe that these auto-translators work? English and German are not that compatible. Another formulation would be: "The men, who load boxes in front of the chocolate-shop, ask shop-girls for a dance."
I disagree with you Agent Roo concerning the lack of formidability of the Panzers. The Panzers had much more of an impact for the Germans in WWII than the ME 262. Moreover, the Tiger and King Tiger were nearly unstoppable during the late part of the war. Jet aircraft were not really necessary considering the Blond Knight of Germany, Adolf Galland, shot down 352 Allied aircraft in a propeller-driven ME 109.
I met a Tiger tank commander a few years ago and he said that tank kill ratios for the Germans when fighting the Russians (who clearly had heavier tanks) were nearly 8 or 10 to 1. One encounter, he destroyed 21 tanks in one afternoon.
When we look at the German war machine, the tank comes to mind. Without it, the term blitzkrieg would never exist.
I met a Tiger tank commander a few years ago and he said that tank kill ratios for the Germans when fighting the Russians (who clearly had heavier tanks) were nearly 8 or 10 to 1. One encounter, he destroyed 21 tanks in one afternoon.
When we look at the German war machine, the tank comes to mind. Without it, the term blitzkrieg would never exist.
Lots of good ideas here in your mod. I think you also come up with the idea of negative culture for some sturctures which made me think of another idea that someone brighter than me might be able to implement.
I think it would be interesting if the production of more (after a certain point - say around 8) roads or railroads or mines would start to produce a negative culture for the city. This way the computer and human player may start to think twice before putting these sturctures everywhere. Most people seem to find every available space filled with this stuff sort of ugly-so it makes some sence that a low culture rating might develop. It does make the end-game map very ugly. It also might force you to choose which areas to development and which to leave off. This would bring more strategy into the late-game-if every square is not carpeted by railroads, those that are take on a more stratigic significanse- for both protection, transport, and offensive strikes. These negative values could perhaps also be modified by goverment types.
Interested to hear what you, or anyone, thinks about this.
I think it would be interesting if the production of more (after a certain point - say around 8) roads or railroads or mines would start to produce a negative culture for the city. This way the computer and human player may start to think twice before putting these sturctures everywhere. Most people seem to find every available space filled with this stuff sort of ugly-so it makes some sence that a low culture rating might develop. It does make the end-game map very ugly. It also might force you to choose which areas to development and which to leave off. This would bring more strategy into the late-game-if every square is not carpeted by railroads, those that are take on a more stratigic significanse- for both protection, transport, and offensive strikes. These negative values could perhaps also be modified by goverment types.
Interested to hear what you, or anyone, thinks about this.
Negative culture for terrain improvements?
I don't see how that could be done. It would be easier to make the railroad graphics more discrete.
More about manganese and magnesium:
I come to think of that I have got a periodic table which tells the usage of all elements.
Manganese alloys: Railroad points, ploughs, safes, rock-crushers
Compounds: Batteries, glass and china dyes
Magnesium: flashes, fireworks
Alloys: solar cells, racing bicycles
Compounds: monitors, computer memories, talcum powder, lasers
About my signature:
It should be shutters, not crates. It was a Swedish-German false friend.
I don't see how that could be done. It would be easier to make the railroad graphics more discrete.
More about manganese and magnesium:
I come to think of that I have got a periodic table which tells the usage of all elements.
Manganese alloys: Railroad points, ploughs, safes, rock-crushers
Compounds: Batteries, glass and china dyes
Magnesium: flashes, fireworks
Alloys: solar cells, racing bicycles
Compounds: monitors, computer memories, talcum powder, lasers
About my signature:
It should be shutters, not crates. It was a Swedish-German false friend.
KALIROB2k2
God of War
Yeah i have been talking to Plutarck, and he is just busy with the mod and trying to work everything he can out as we speak. He is trying to refine the mod into one that is as perfect as possible (by his standards heh), and trying some newer add ins. So I guess you can say he is playing Civ all day The update is comming soon, just be patient heh.
The update is comming soon, just be patient heh.Goat_Guy
God of my own planet....
Y cant i play with the old version of the patch???? Plutark should have one of the old "fixes" available...i read almost the entire post...i really want this f** patch!!!!:soldier:THis is a desperate plee to Plutark to post one of his old fixes so i can use itt!!!
Rulerofdaerf
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2002
- Messages
- 9
I have to point out that aluminium is not a naturally occuring metal, it involces treating other metals with electicity, I reccomend changing name and rarity, ore replace it with the metal that it is derived from. I know that it is not you who created the error, ut i do think that it would be nice to have that tossed in with the other changes you have made.
(c)Neopets.com
LeeSimons
Chieftain
I belive the metal is called Bauxite.
Bauxite (aluminum) is the third most-common mineral in the earth's crust. It's not rare at all, FYI, it just took science awhile to figure out how to refine it profitably and easily.
If you really want to learn more... http://www.world-aluminium.org/history/index.html
If you really want to learn more... http://www.world-aluminium.org/history/index.html
KALIROB2k2
God of War
Good point Psychlone, I mean look at aluminum cans. I doubt Coke or Pepsi would use cans if aluminum was so rare, I mean there have to be over a billion cans of Coke alone out there right now, not counting Pepsi, all the Beer cans(damn there has to be alot of those heh), Ect. Ect. The list goes on and on. 
Quizpeachablari
Chieftain
Perfectly said, Psychlone, and thanks for the link. Bauxite is relatively easy to obtain naturally. There was a long time, however, when science could not turn bauxite into aluminum. This made aluminum a very rare semi-precious metal. This is why (besides the fact that it serves as a good lightning rod) that the top of the Washington Monument is aluminum. Since then however, aluminum has become easy to produce and I only get a five cent refund when i return my aluminum cans. 
KALIROB2k2
God of War
Isnt that ironic... the top of the Washington monument is only worth a few dollars heh.
I do think once scientist discovered how to make aluminum it was rare at first, just due to it was something new. But I would guess Bauxite is not rare?(I am guessing its fairly common, sorry if im off heh) I mean if you could produce platinum or gold it would be worthless as well right? I mean rarity is what judges somethings value usually. I mean if there was always alot of gold, and instead Bauxite was rare we might have gold cans and Aluminum rings instead heh.:crazyeyes
I do think once scientist discovered how to make aluminum it was rare at first, just due to it was something new. But I would guess Bauxite is not rare?(I am guessing its fairly common, sorry if im off heh) I mean if you could produce platinum or gold it would be worthless as well right? I mean rarity is what judges somethings value usually. I mean if there was always alot of gold, and instead Bauxite was rare we might have gold cans and Aluminum rings instead heh.:crazyeyes
Well it's certainly seems like a long time since I last gave an update, eh? Time to fix that!
Here's what's up. I haven't spent a lot of time between the holidays and now playing Civ III (I've been writing, reflecting, meditating, contemplating, working, etc), but I've been tweaking some things in LWC in the mean time. So it hasn't been constant work, but plenty has gotten done
While I'm not done and there's still more I want to do before I call it version 1.0 (which will be the next version
), such as I haven't implemented the government change and there's plenty more tweaking to be done, I think it will take too long to do it while in the meantime there is no playable version available.
Thus I am now in the process of wrapping everything up (such as adding pediaicon entrys so the tech tree doesn't look all screwy, putting little text things on the unit icons so you can tell them apart, etc), and I hope it shall be done _very_ soon! In the next few days, even!
This will be called LWC_ERP1, which stands for: Long Winded Changes, Early Release Preview 1. It's an amazingly small download compared to the other versions because of the improved way Gramphos' CopyTool now does unit .ini's (illiminating duplicate unit animation downloads).
As I finish up what I already know I want done (finish balancing the units out, change the government system) I will release "Release Candidates", such as LWC_RC1, LWC_RC2, et al, until a stable reasonably-bugless version is available. Then a full version will be released, incrementing the version number of the LWC mod.
Thus each version update will be far more reliably stable, and fully worth loosing your old saved games to update to the new version
This way people who want a stable version can just download the 'main' version, while people who don't mind running into a bug in exchange for "the newest thing" can help test out the changes to LWC.
I'll save the complete details till I post it, but here's a teaser of new additions:
Civilization Advances:
Saddle: Yes, it's a Saddle. No, not that kind of Saddle...although...
Anyway, it goes along with a changing of the power of the Horseman units in that I want them available later than they are now. You'll see...muahahaha!
No Stirrup advance needed for now.
Hullmaking: Sailing, sailing, over the bounding Coracle!
...doesn't have quite the right ring to it, does it? Anyhow, a post Map Making advance which allows the first real wars on the water.
Squirearchy: SCHULTZ! SCHUUUULTZ!
...oh, sorry, that's not available till way later. But this is available in the early Middle Ages after Chivarly.
Volunteerism: "Wait a second...you mean, you want me to volunteer to join the Army? Hahaha, hahaha, HAHAHAHA!
...alright."
Advanced Naval Warfare: "Ah, it's just a nice day for a cruise, isn't it honey?
...honey?!"
Buildings:
Coastal Gun Placements: Now take the place of Coastal Fortress.
Coastal Fortress: Modernized version of Coastal Gun Placements (more powerful, doesn't need Saltpeter, more expensive).
Mill: The first "Power Plant", available in the Middle Ages.
Guild Hall: Reduces corruption in the Middle Ages, requires Courthouse be in the city to be built.
FBI Office: Police Station for the Modern Age, requires a Police Station be in the city to be built.
Sewer Sytem: Pollution reducing improvement, available thanks to the wonderful invention that is Sanitation. Can't hurt happiness, either.
City Dump: When oceans and rivers just aren't enough, why not dig a great big hole in the ground and put your toxic waste there? Pollution reducing improvement which isn't a boon for happiness.
National Constitution: Ok, it's not the most logical fit to become available with Scientific Method, but are you really going to complain about having a 2nd Forbidden Palace (more or less)?
Computerized Oversight: Kind of hard to fudge a few mathematical statements in a proposal when you have a supercomputer capable of 250,000,000,000 computations a second evaluating every aspect of it, ya know? The science abusing charalatons won't be happy to be exposed for being the lying bastards that they are, but it'll put a grin on just about everyone else's face, and you can't complain about a 3rd Forbidden Palace in the modern age (more or less).
AI Governing Prototype: "I'm sorry, I can't do that Dave." Gives ya the heebejeebeez, doesn't it? But a 4th Forbidden Palace available at the end of the game isn't all that bad. Besides, this thing is just a small prototype...but, of what?
Units (Name: type, age available):
Land Units
Barbarian: Basic Barbarian unit (rather than Warrior, stronger).
Raider: Advanced Barbarian unit (rather than Horseman, as strong as changed Horseman).
Pioneer: Expansionist only Settler, early-middle Ancient Age (Map Making).
Mounted Scout: Not-as-good Scout for non-expansionists, early Ancient Age.
Man At Arms: Offensive footsoldier, early Middle Age.
Musket Infantry: Offensive footsoldier, late Middle.
Shock Troops (requires population): Offensive footsoldier, early-middle Industrial.
Machine Gunner: Offensive footsoldier, late Industrial.
Modern Infantry: Defensive footsoldier, early Modern.
Assault Troops: Offensive footsoldier, middle Modern.
Special Ops Team: Offensive footsoldier, late Modern.
Naval Units
Coracle: Transport, available from begining.
Warship: Power/Bombard, middle-late Ancient.
Corporate Privateer: Power/Bombard (no national markings), earlyish Industrial.
Steel Warship: Power/Bombard, middle Industrial.
Modern Transport: Transport, early Modern.
Modern Destroyer: Power/Bombard, early Modern.
Nuclear Battleship: Power/Bombard, middle Modern.
Nuclear Carrier: Air Transport, middle Modern.
Diesel Submarine: Power, middle Modern.
Nuclear Attack Sub: Power, middle Modern.
Air Units
Transport Plane: Transport, end of Industrial.
Modern Bomber: Bombard, middle Modern.
And currently over 100 entrys to the changes file, with each entry being a change for a certain entry in the editor. For instance changing the cost, available time, maintananence, and effect of a Wonder counts as 1 change; changing the amount of resources given by forests and the shields required to get 1 gold through wealth count as 2.
Tweaks during the development are not counted, so all 100 have a current effect in the game.
All things subject to change, no guarantee I didn't make an error here, yadda yadda yadda.
Still need to finish balancing of the late-modern naval units, then I can wrap it all up and post it. Hope to have it done by Wednesday, but regardless it should be done before the end of the week, barring only something happening in real life that stops me from doing so.
Enjoy the enticipation, and try not to slobber too much :cute:
Here's what's up. I haven't spent a lot of time between the holidays and now playing Civ III (I've been writing, reflecting, meditating, contemplating, working, etc), but I've been tweaking some things in LWC in the mean time. So it hasn't been constant work, but plenty has gotten done
While I'm not done and there's still more I want to do before I call it version 1.0 (which will be the next version
), such as I haven't implemented the government change and there's plenty more tweaking to be done, I think it will take too long to do it while in the meantime there is no playable version available. Thus I am now in the process of wrapping everything up (such as adding pediaicon entrys so the tech tree doesn't look all screwy, putting little text things on the unit icons so you can tell them apart, etc), and I hope it shall be done _very_ soon! In the next few days, even!
This will be called LWC_ERP1, which stands for: Long Winded Changes, Early Release Preview 1. It's an amazingly small download compared to the other versions because of the improved way Gramphos' CopyTool now does unit .ini's (illiminating duplicate unit animation downloads).
As I finish up what I already know I want done (finish balancing the units out, change the government system) I will release "Release Candidates", such as LWC_RC1, LWC_RC2, et al, until a stable reasonably-bugless version is available. Then a full version will be released, incrementing the version number of the LWC mod.
Thus each version update will be far more reliably stable, and fully worth loosing your old saved games to update to the new version
This way people who want a stable version can just download the 'main' version, while people who don't mind running into a bug in exchange for "the newest thing" can help test out the changes to LWC.
I'll save the complete details till I post it, but here's a teaser of new additions:
Civilization Advances:
Saddle: Yes, it's a Saddle. No, not that kind of Saddle...although...
Anyway, it goes along with a changing of the power of the Horseman units in that I want them available later than they are now. You'll see...muahahaha!
No Stirrup advance needed for now.
Hullmaking: Sailing, sailing, over the bounding Coracle!
...doesn't have quite the right ring to it, does it? Anyhow, a post Map Making advance which allows the first real wars on the water.
Squirearchy: SCHULTZ! SCHUUUULTZ!
...oh, sorry, that's not available till way later. But this is available in the early Middle Ages after Chivarly.
Volunteerism: "Wait a second...you mean, you want me to volunteer to join the Army? Hahaha, hahaha, HAHAHAHA!
...alright."
Advanced Naval Warfare: "Ah, it's just a nice day for a cruise, isn't it honey?
...honey?!"
Buildings:
Coastal Gun Placements: Now take the place of Coastal Fortress.
Coastal Fortress: Modernized version of Coastal Gun Placements (more powerful, doesn't need Saltpeter, more expensive).
Mill: The first "Power Plant", available in the Middle Ages.
Guild Hall: Reduces corruption in the Middle Ages, requires Courthouse be in the city to be built.
FBI Office: Police Station for the Modern Age, requires a Police Station be in the city to be built.
Sewer Sytem: Pollution reducing improvement, available thanks to the wonderful invention that is Sanitation. Can't hurt happiness, either.
City Dump: When oceans and rivers just aren't enough, why not dig a great big hole in the ground and put your toxic waste there? Pollution reducing improvement which isn't a boon for happiness.
National Constitution: Ok, it's not the most logical fit to become available with Scientific Method, but are you really going to complain about having a 2nd Forbidden Palace (more or less)?
Computerized Oversight: Kind of hard to fudge a few mathematical statements in a proposal when you have a supercomputer capable of 250,000,000,000 computations a second evaluating every aspect of it, ya know? The science abusing charalatons won't be happy to be exposed for being the lying bastards that they are, but it'll put a grin on just about everyone else's face, and you can't complain about a 3rd Forbidden Palace in the modern age (more or less).
AI Governing Prototype: "I'm sorry, I can't do that Dave." Gives ya the heebejeebeez, doesn't it? But a 4th Forbidden Palace available at the end of the game isn't all that bad. Besides, this thing is just a small prototype...but, of what?
Units (Name: type, age available):
Land Units
Barbarian: Basic Barbarian unit (rather than Warrior, stronger).
Raider: Advanced Barbarian unit (rather than Horseman, as strong as changed Horseman).
Pioneer: Expansionist only Settler, early-middle Ancient Age (Map Making).
Mounted Scout: Not-as-good Scout for non-expansionists, early Ancient Age.
Man At Arms: Offensive footsoldier, early Middle Age.
Musket Infantry: Offensive footsoldier, late Middle.
Shock Troops (requires population): Offensive footsoldier, early-middle Industrial.
Machine Gunner: Offensive footsoldier, late Industrial.
Modern Infantry: Defensive footsoldier, early Modern.
Assault Troops: Offensive footsoldier, middle Modern.
Special Ops Team: Offensive footsoldier, late Modern.
Naval Units
Coracle: Transport, available from begining.
Warship: Power/Bombard, middle-late Ancient.
Corporate Privateer: Power/Bombard (no national markings), earlyish Industrial.
Steel Warship: Power/Bombard, middle Industrial.
Modern Transport: Transport, early Modern.
Modern Destroyer: Power/Bombard, early Modern.
Nuclear Battleship: Power/Bombard, middle Modern.
Nuclear Carrier: Air Transport, middle Modern.
Diesel Submarine: Power, middle Modern.
Nuclear Attack Sub: Power, middle Modern.
Air Units
Transport Plane: Transport, end of Industrial.
Modern Bomber: Bombard, middle Modern.
And currently over 100 entrys to the changes file, with each entry being a change for a certain entry in the editor. For instance changing the cost, available time, maintananence, and effect of a Wonder counts as 1 change; changing the amount of resources given by forests and the shields required to get 1 gold through wealth count as 2.
Tweaks during the development are not counted, so all 100 have a current effect in the game.
All things subject to change, no guarantee I didn't make an error here, yadda yadda yadda.
Still need to finish balancing of the late-modern naval units, then I can wrap it all up and post it. Hope to have it done by Wednesday, but regardless it should be done before the end of the week, barring only something happening in real life that stops me from doing so.
Enjoy the enticipation, and try not to slobber too much :cute:
Canadria
Chieftain
I have stopped playing while I've been waiting for it
As stated by others, Aluminum comes from Bauxite, which is common. However, it's not so much how common it is, but how common it appears in large enough deposits to make it worth the time it takes to pull it out of the ground. Kind of like how gold, in a way.
The main reason for the value of Aluminum was that we knew of no good way to produce it, and until the 1808 we didn't even know it existed as a metal at all!
It wasn't until 1869 that a process was developed that made it go from costing $545 dollars a pound, to $17 dollars a pound, which was the same price as silver at that time. (source: http://www.alcoa.com/site/company/history/aluminum.asp)
It wasn't until 1886 that the process became available to make it cheap enough to use in mass quantitys, and with the shortages and downsides of tin, aluminum became the metal of choice.
Now adays the stuff is used in just about everything. We take it's value for granted because we have so much of it, but that's mostly due to the big aluminum production industrys.
The problem with Civ III is these things just aren't handled as well as they should be. Once again I say that they absolutely, positively, HAVE to allow buildings to 'produce' at least strategic resources.
Thus real, vastly more accurate Iron, Steel, Oil, and Aluminum industrys could be simulated (as well as many others, like Uranium/Plutonium). After all, just because you have Oil doesn't mean you have gasoline.
Guess it's something to wait until Civ IV for...*shakes fist*
Short of that, the reason for having Aluminum in the game is one entirely of function. Another possibility, which I might flesh out in a future version, is to add a modern resource such as Titanium.
Thus Aluminum could be used for late-industrial and up to the early-middle modern era, but then Titanium would be required for things like the spaceship.
But until then, aluminum seems to fill it's place the best of any resource I can think of, though I'm certainly open to ideas for future versions.
The main reason for the value of Aluminum was that we knew of no good way to produce it, and until the 1808 we didn't even know it existed as a metal at all!
It wasn't until 1869 that a process was developed that made it go from costing $545 dollars a pound, to $17 dollars a pound, which was the same price as silver at that time. (source: http://www.alcoa.com/site/company/history/aluminum.asp)
It wasn't until 1886 that the process became available to make it cheap enough to use in mass quantitys, and with the shortages and downsides of tin, aluminum became the metal of choice.
Now adays the stuff is used in just about everything. We take it's value for granted because we have so much of it, but that's mostly due to the big aluminum production industrys.
The problem with Civ III is these things just aren't handled as well as they should be. Once again I say that they absolutely, positively, HAVE to allow buildings to 'produce' at least strategic resources.
Thus real, vastly more accurate Iron, Steel, Oil, and Aluminum industrys could be simulated (as well as many others, like Uranium/Plutonium). After all, just because you have Oil doesn't mean you have gasoline.
Guess it's something to wait until Civ IV for...*shakes fist*
Short of that, the reason for having Aluminum in the game is one entirely of function. Another possibility, which I might flesh out in a future version, is to add a modern resource such as Titanium.
Thus Aluminum could be used for late-industrial and up to the early-middle modern era, but then Titanium would be required for things like the spaceship.
But until then, aluminum seems to fill it's place the best of any resource I can think of, though I'm certainly open to ideas for future versions.
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