Long Winded Changes (LWC) Mod

Great mod, but I've come accross a few bugs which you might want to know about. First one - 2049, then the game dies. I assumme this is the mod playing up. Second - The saved game editor I have crashes when trying to open up my saved games from the mod - Not your fault but is a bit annoying (since I can't contine playing after 2049 cos it dies)

Very good work tho m8.

James Wilkinson
 
Once again Plutarck great work! :goodjob: Any plans to incorprate others units into your mod? I know s3d does some really good work with units.
 
I tried some version of your mod and it was very good.
Still...I am personally looking something else in overall but we all have our own taste for all things, don't we?

I'm impressed someone has made mod as big as you have done. It takes lot of time as the editor is like it is.

I wish Firaxis could make better editor for patch/expansion...

I got plenty of ideas from your mod to my own which I think won't really interest anyone and I have hardly started making it...

Thank you Plutarck.
Keep up the good job.
 
I'll do all the replying later (tiired...been working on the mod all day), but here are the things I've come up with so far. Some still are left to be implemented, so I've got plenty of work left to do for ERP4, but I wanted to get this out for discussion:


-Error: Forgot to add the change to World Sizes in changes.txt, and clarified the change in pillaging there too (archer-type units can't pillage).

-Many Units: Many units have had their bombard strength changed, and some have had their rate of fire increased. All changes are decreases, because most had already had their rate of fire increased. The result was too high a chance of destroying buildings/citizens while the early bombard units were nearly useless. Along with other changes bombard units should now be highly useful units (even the early ones), but not over-powered.

-ISSUE: I'm not sure if I mentioned it, but land bombard units can no longer be captured. After playing with the changes, would you prefer it if they were capturable?

-QUESTION: When bombarding units, do the defending units defense values get modified as if they were being attacked by any other unit (like for being fortified, terrain, city defenses, etc)? I would really think they were, and am acting as if that's true.

Also, do Citizens and Buildings get any bonus from terrain or city improvements (like Walls)?

-Defense Bonus: Citizens and Buildings now have 18 and 14 defense, respectively. With the increased effectiveness of bombard units the chance of devastating a city is far too high, far too early, for far too little of a production requirement.

-Multiple Resources: The resources with the highest disappearance probability have now had that amount decreased, so they are a bit more stable now. They seemed to move a bit too much as before, but they'll be tweaked more in the future if need be.

-Tech Cost: Squirearchy(-2).

-Many Units: I've made a bunch of changes to units, from changing their stats to changing the technology they become available with. Quite the bucket'o'changes. Let me know what you think!

-Difficulty Levels: I've majorly reduced the barbarian combat bonuses on the low difficultly levels and raised the Optimum City Amount by 5% per difficulty level. The reason being that, for instance, on Chieftain the barbarian bonus was 800%. That means that a Warrior (1 attack originally, but it would be given an 8 attack after the bonus) attacking a Barbarian (2 defense) that's fortified on a mountain would have a 74% chance of victory if they were both Conscripts, a 78% of both were Regulars, or a 87% chance when it's Regular vs Conscript (which is almost always the case)! 1 lone Regular Warrior fortified on a flood plain could stand up to 3 Raiders (which have 3 attack) 77% of the time, and 6 of them (one after another) more than 28% of the time!

Chieftain should be pretty easy, but it makes barbarians totally irrelevant (that is, just free sources of gold). Basically all levels have been moved "up" one, so while Chieftain/Warlord/Regent/Monarchy/Emperor/Diety was 800/400/200/100/50/0, it is now 400/200/100/50/25/0. The other levels have also been tweaked, so barbarians should finally be reasonably dangerous! Muahahaha!

-Military Academy: Now costs 50 to build instead of 60.

-Archer-type units: Now have a 0 range bombard ability (heard the idea in the forums, and want to see if it works like I hope it will), giving them one free "bombard" against an attacking unit. I hope it'll be as good as useful as I think it will be, but testing will show if I'm right. I may also have to give them Zone of Control, but we'll see.

-Chemistry: Chemistry has basically been removed, with it's position now filled by Metallurgy (the exact explanation is that Chemistry and Metallurgy have now been rolled in together as one tech). Other than having both Chemistry and Physics (both useless techs, in that they serve no function on their own) often coming one after the other, this also serves to solve the problem of the naval units equipped with cannons becoming available before canons were invented!

There will still be a problem with the "new" naval unit that comes available with astronomy, in that it requires saltpeter to build yet comes available before the gunpowder advance. You win some, you loose some. If a tech tree overhaul is done then this is something that can be addressed, but otherwise we'll just...well, ignore it, like everyone else has to ignore Frigates becoming available before Metallurgy.

-Longbowman: England's Unique Unit is now the Longbowman, rather than the Man-O-War. The Longbowman is now no longer available to other civilizations, and it's now functionally replaced by the new Crossbowman unit. The other idea for England is the Red Coat, but this will work for now.

-Crossbowman: New unit, taking the functional place of the Longbowman unit for all but England.

-Man-O-War: Now renamed to the Ship of the Line, and made available to all civs. It is functionally the same now as the Frigate/Man-O-War.

-Frigate: Now renamed to War Caravel, made available with Astronomy, and is available to all civs. It's current function is replaced by the Ship of the Line.

-ISSUE: I wish to change the American UU to some ground unit, but I don't know what it should be. The prime candidates I can think of is the Minuteman (available in the industrial age, like an improved Rifleman?) and the M1-A1/Abrams Tank (upgrade to Modern Armor, perhaps?). For now I'm going to try out making it the Minuteman, and we'll see how it goes (I don't know what I'm going to do with the F-15...might just leave it out for now).

The reason for these 2 UU changes is because you cannot trigger a Golden Age without the unit winning a battle. The Americans have it the worst, but the English suffer from it to a lesser degree. The other is that ground units are useful on all maps in every situation, while naval units really are only useful on more land-filled (especially Pangea) maps.

However, I believe that all civs should have 2 UUs, for more reasons than I want to even get into. Depending on the results of ERP4, I think this would be a good thing to implement reasonably soon. However, I want plenty of feedback and debate as to what the 2nd UU should be for each civ. I also believe that overhauling the governments is a more pressing issue, which should be done first.

With a smoothed out unit system, smoothed out tech tree (not over-hauled or largely changed, just smoothed out a bit in terms of cost, because I think I've fixed the major other problems already), added UUs, and an overhauled government system, I think I will be ready to call it LWC version 2.0!



I especially want to hear about the change of England's unit to the Longbowman, adding the Crossbowman to replace it for other civs, and changing the American unit to the Minuteman (and currently leaving the f-15 out of the game until a use for it comes up).
 
camaro04005:

In response to your question on jungles and disease, check to see if you built your city on a flood plain. If so, your city will be subject to quite a bit of disease until you discover medicine.

Stalin:

I would have to disagree with you about the usefulness of republic and democracy. Quite to the contrary, I find that the economic advantages of republic and democracy allow one to build a much larger military than any of the either despotism or monarchy. In my experience, I usually switch to republic with not very much gold to spare; but after a little while, I can crank out anywhere from +50 to +100 gold per turn and still support the largest military in the game.
 
Plutarck, in response to your last post:

ISSUE - Land Bombard units: IMHO, I think that land bombard units should remain capturable. It adds another dimension to the game that didn't exist before. You have to think twice about sending a horde of catapults into enemy territory, when there is a possibility of them being captured and used against you. It is a facet of combat that is seen even today. You never want to let your most powerful weapons fall into the wrong hands, do you?

QUESTION on Bombarding Defenders: Again, IMHO, I believe that defenders should get their defensive bonuses when defending against bombardment. If a unit has had a chance to fortify and has chosen its position wisely, than one would assume that they have considered the possibility of defending against bombardment as well. I think that citizens and buildings should also benefit from defensive bonuses, since its their position or the presence of the wall that gives the bonus; the fact that the defender is a military unit, building, or a citizen shouldn't matter in that regard.

Conversely, should bombard units get a bonus if they are attacking from higher ground (i.e. hills, mountains -vs- grassland, plains, etc.)?

UU's: I with you in that each civ should have more than one UU (preferably well-dispersed throughout each of the age). One thought did occur to me though ... would it be too much to ask that each civ have a UU for each of the historical periods (ancient, middle, industrial, etc.)?

As for the English UU, I think the longbowman is a good choice. As far as crossbowmen to replace the longbowman for all other civs, hmmm ... I don't think that crossbow were quite as widespread as archers were. Perhaps a more specialized form of longbowmen for the English UU??

I have to disagree with the minuteman as the American UU ... weren't the minutemen used more for defensive purposes? I think the Americans would still be at somewhat of a disadvantage if you're trying to reach a golden age by attacking your enemy with a defensive unit. I think the M-1 Abrams is a good choice, but I think that a beefed up cavalry unit would be a better choice. Cavalry was used quite a bit in the civil war and against the American Indians. Just my .02!

I just discovered your mod today ... can't wait to go home and try it out!!! I'll have more feedback for you after a couple of games ... stay tuned!

EM
 
Plutark,

There is 1 little detail that doesnt really affect the game, but it messes w\ your mind:crazyeyes WHen you discover a tech, the "picture" of the tech is the wrong one, (i think its the one for the one before or after it) for example, when you discover Alphebet, it might show the picture for Advanced flight! NOt a real problem, but just an annoyance.... :rolleyes: Thanx 4 a great mod pack...
 
Some ideas for american units would be Rangers (enhanced paratroopers/marines), super carriers (6 or 8 planes, not particularly useful by normal rules though), or Air Cavalry (movement 4 infantry?). These are the most unique of US forces I can think of - the abrams is nice, but not significantly better than german or british tanks.

Very long range artillery (like 12 tiles) might be interesting too.
 
The bombarding attacks need to be changed. Wouldn't a Catapult on Grasslands have a difficult time hitting a unit on a mountain? And why can't a bombard attack destroy settlers/workers?

Also, if a settler take two points out the population of the city that builds it, shouldn't the new city have two people to begin with?

One more thing, WHERE DO I DOWNLOAD THE MOD PACK???!!!!:confused:
 
I agree to a point about the capturing of bombard units, but at the same time units have self destruct orders on immenent capture. Maybe they should be capturable beyond cultural border?
Is there a way to do that? Or maybe 50/50 chance of capture or destruction?
I agree that they should get a bonus from higher terrain...

I like the American minuteman idea - maybe take the French Musketman (is that right) - the French UU and decrease Attack / defense by one and add to they're movement, or maybe quick to build
always there in a minute
maybe all this has been suggested....
more unique units would be very cool, IMHO

Again, thanks
 
I think that the Minuteman would be a great UU. Make it have a +1 defence and +1 movement over the musketman because the americans mostly fought from hiding places where they were difficult to shoot at , plus the guys were quick, hence the name.
 
I think you should add the swedish civilization with the UU Carolines (Karoliner). There should be a thread in the mod forum about this. I also have tis idea about a defensive sattelite (immobile bombardement unit) with the possibility to bombard anywhere. Is this possbile, in the editor the max bombard range is 8?!

Oh, and the minuteman is a great idea. great work on this mod.
 
Plutarck,

If you want to time America's golden age correctly, I would recommend the Citizen Soldier of WWII. Basically, a very cheap marine, other civilizations represent this soldier by having him recruited from the general population as a conscript level riflemen. Americans could then create the same type of soldier as the same A/D of a marine, at an insanely cheap price, without the conscript level, and without the unhappiness effects. Just a thought.
 
I can`t play civ3 with this modpack. It never wants to start. How I get the game running with the modpack?
 
I start a game as the Americans. I get into the game, found my first city and when I go into the city screen to change my production to pioneer. The second I click on the pioneer in the drop-down list. The game crashes?! Don't know what this means? I unzipped all the files to my civ3 dir...am I missing something here?

Update: It seems as though ANYTHING related with the pioneer crashes the game. Example: I got to the tech that allowed the building of pioneers, all my cities switched from settler to pioneers, I click to go into a city building a pioneer and the second i click on the city the game crashes!
 
Hey,
I got a question about loading LWC mode. If I've got a game I am playing on Marla's map can I still load LWC with out messing up my game I'm currently playing or do I have to start all over?

I have been playing on this current game for like three weeks now and I'm only at 390ad. It's taken so long to get where I'm at that I don't wont to start over, but want to get all the fun of playing LWC. Please let me know if there is a simple solution before i try this. Thanks abunch!

TRACE
 
Hey TRACE sorry but when you load this mod you will have to start over :( So dont ad on the mod until your done with the games your playing at the moment. I dont think there is a way to avoid it thats just how it goes, sorry.
 
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