compwiz1202
King
Yes I need to play Incans again. For the Persian catapults I could just picture the Great Artist shouting "Attack!!!" as he initiated the Golden Age, and all the catapults besieging the enemy cities.
Longbow vs Chu
- Thread starter Elz Majesto
- Start date
JanghanHong
Enrico Trololo
Wide China with honor tree and Tradition maxed out is unstoppable. you forego Liberty's minor happiness bonus, but you're getting +3 happiness (garrison, wall, castle) per city with garrison and free unit maintenance for the unit doing that garrison. With CKN's getting 6 experience per attack and paper makers in all your cities, AND higher growth rate with all your cities maxing out 20-30 pop by the game's end.
I once did a 25+cities cultural victory with China because my empire was so good. I think I was on Future Tech 11 or something by the time I won.
I once did a 25+cities cultural victory with China because my empire was so good. I think I was on Future Tech 11 or something by the time I won.
Elz Majesto
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2011
- Messages
- 150
That victory you pulled off is no small feat. I tried to get something comparable but I just couldn't nail it on King. Either Hiawathea was in it to win it (I stopped him by then G. Washington picked up where he left off) or I had a freak Ethiopia that conquered every civ minus the Mongols and I. Im glad to see my theory play out well.
Still tho, I feel that LB are better. They hit harder and farther. And when a LB gets logistic, its a massacre. (Comparing Unit 2 Unit, not UA)
DudewiththeFood
King
And even without logistics, LB are better for the future. +1 range is much better to a Gatling which uses movement setting up so can't make good use of 2 attacks.
Longbows for me every time. The 3 tile range plus Gatlin/machine guns with range is a better option moving forward. Whenn you play as England, I've found the 2 range gatlin gun the best weapon to have in my cities for defence (other than artilary, and I need all of those for my attack !!)
It's funny that people always forget that China gets an additional +15% combat strength for all their units due to their improved great generals. That's almost as strong as the Ethiopian's UA but without its limitations.
Also in general, Chu's get a lot more XP than longbowmen and by the time you can upgrade them to gatling guns, you will have the +1 range promotion anyway.
Mesix
Obergruppenführer
I prefer the CKN to the Longbow as well. I think most everyone has stated the plus and minus of each unit. I just find that I can cause more devastation with fewer units when I am rolling CKN. The are very quick to get +1 range as well since they attack 2x on most turns (provided they haven't mowed down all the enemy units already).
The other plus is that if I am warmongering early, I typically have a few CB to upgrade. With the CKN, my army just doubled its effectiveness. Playing as China, the Papermaker makes it easy to have the necessary
for upgrades as well which is good synergy for the civ. SOTL does not have the same synergy effect by any measure.
The other plus is that if I am warmongering early, I typically have a few CB to upgrade. With the CKN, my army just doubled its effectiveness. Playing as China, the Papermaker makes it easy to have the necessary
for upgrades as well which is good synergy for the civ. SOTL does not have the same synergy effect by any measure.compwiz1202
King
Seems to me from experimenting it depends on terrain around enemy cities.
CKN were working better if the terrain was blocking LOS from the third ring and Longbows better with lots of flat terrain or hills in the third ring without forested hills blocking LOS.
CKN were working better if the terrain was blocking LOS from the third ring and Longbows better with lots of flat terrain or hills in the third ring without forested hills blocking LOS.
I think the main difference is how people value the 3 tile range. I've been in the habit a long time now of bringing a weakened decoy along to soak up the damage from cities so the range comparison doesn't hold much value for me. I'd much rather charge in 6 Chu's and a damaged trireme and get 12 attacks off in the next round than try and strategically place LB's on the city perimeter and try to bypass terrain obstacles.
Unresolved
King
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- Dec 22, 2012
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- 956
I think the main difference is the CKN's 14 attack compared to the Longbows 18 attack. If they both have the Range and Logistics promotions, the Longbows hit considerably harder.
Unresolved
King
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- Dec 22, 2012
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- 956
People make those comparisons all the time with Roman Legions. I don't see why it should be any different when CKN's and Longbows are being compared.
The Pilgrim
Deity
Do you see swordsmen with blitz promotion?
Unresolved
King
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2012
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- 956
Nope, but people do say that Legions are great(I don't really understand it >.>).
dopingman
Warlord
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2009
- Messages
- 202
Because they are. The +3 str make quite a difference in this era and the road/fort building is quite handy when they are standing around/waiting for reinforcements. With early warring and in conjunction with Ballistas cities crumble a lot faster than under a serious CB rush. But without iron you are more or less fckd as Rome in this regard.
Light Cleric
ElCee/LC/El Cid
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2011
- Messages
- 3,225
Not so much now, Ballistae are beasts and don't take Iron anymore(which I sometimes forget lol). In Vanilla, though, yeah, Rome without Iron was super gimped.
The Pilgrim
Deity
Some people say keshiks are bad.
I'll take 1 CKN over 3 legions any day. I might even take 1 CKN over 5 legions.
Some people say keshiks are bad.
I'd take 2 CKNs in adjoining tiles over 10 legions controlled by the AI; but not just 1 CKN over 5 legions under AI control unless there's something like a citadel and city bombardment.
As some1 else has pointed out - in most situation ai will be able to do some damage anyway, so it doesnt really matter that chos gotta get closer to their target.
So the situations in which chos are better are proly more often there, situations where the 3 range makes a game breaking difference seem rare to me
So the situations in which chos are better are proly more often there, situations where the 3 range makes a game breaking difference seem rare to me
The Pilgrim
Deity
That's why I said 3 and in some cases 5.
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