Michelangelo
Prince
Please explain, there isn't any upper limit for cities, everDoc Tsiolkovski said:
Looking for people to join Monarch Trainer (I need training)
- Thread starter tmarcl
- Start date
Michelangelo said:Please explain, there isn't any upper limit for cities, ever
I don't know if there's an actual limit to how many cities there can be on a map like there was in Civ II, but I do know that there is pretty much no upper limit to how many cities you can own. I'm playing on a map now where I own probably 50 or 60 cities, mostly taken from othere civs. I also know that the AI will expand until every land square is covered by culture, which can give it a lot of cities.
My experience (admittedly limited to Chieftain level) is that the number of cities tends to be at around 20 to 30 built cities per civ (at 8 civs, that's 160 to 240 cities on a map), and if you play straight conquest, you can own that many cities.
Also, if you're placing cities at the same spacing as the AI (which seems to usually be cxxxc), then you're not going to have more than about 20 to 30 cities per civ. If you're doing ICS (cxxc, or cxc) then you can fit a lot more. I've never tried to do a gigantic civ of just cxxc, so I don't know if there's a limit there.
Michelangelo
Prince
@tmarcl
I thought it was along the same line you're reasoning. But from DocT's post I got the impression the FP has something to do with a upper limit for cities, this I still don't get.
I thought it was along the same line you're reasoning. But from DocT's post I got the impression the FP has something to do with a upper limit for cities, this I still don't get.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
Bad wording on my side: Once the FP is built, IMHO it doesn't matter how many cities you have outside the core. The reasoning behind the FP is simply that it would need much longer to hand-build the FP outside your core when you're far over the OCN.
geonnyboy
Building type Guy
Hey guys sorry I haven't been as active as I should. Since I was the one that ordered the market builds, maybe I should have spoke up more.
In my past games I have found that money making improvement, markets, banks, and stock exchanges, have been vital to my wins, especially in a democratic style government. As a result I almost always place those builds as high priorities (after essentials improvements are made of course.) As a result, sometimes by as early as economics, I become THE economic powerhouse of the world. With that much money, you can easily become the scientific leader by always researching at max (while still making profits!), or the military leader by having the wealth to rush build units and still have enough maintain a massive army. In my opinion, these improvements emphasize the strong points of a democratic government.
Plus, as an added bonus, when the people are happy, productivity goes way up (WLTK days massively reduces corruption.) For me Markets are simply win-win-win. Cash flow increases. Happiness increases. Productivity increases. It may not look like its a big deal now but look at it this way, we already have ivory and gem, furs are pretty much ours, and up north in Aztec territory are dyes. Since we've already decided the Aztecs are gonna go bye bye soon, we pretty much have four set luxuries. Once we get those 4 luxs under our disposal our marketed towns' happiness will skyrocket, as will our cash, as will our productivity. By building markets now, it will optimize our productivity by boosting happiness the second those luxs are hooked up.
This is just my opinion, but our military can pretty much be handled by Zeus for right now (with the occasional cat and MI from our already marketed cities.) We should take this "Militarily set" opportunity to build up our cities. And for me that means cash flow.
Please feel free to object or refute anything I've said. Like I said, this is almost always my basic Civ game plan, and if you see a flaw in said plan please let me know. It's very possible my love of cash and happy people is clouding my judgment.
Geez, I talk too much.
In my past games I have found that money making improvement, markets, banks, and stock exchanges, have been vital to my wins, especially in a democratic style government. As a result I almost always place those builds as high priorities (after essentials improvements are made of course.) As a result, sometimes by as early as economics, I become THE economic powerhouse of the world. With that much money, you can easily become the scientific leader by always researching at max (while still making profits!), or the military leader by having the wealth to rush build units and still have enough maintain a massive army. In my opinion, these improvements emphasize the strong points of a democratic government.
Plus, as an added bonus, when the people are happy, productivity goes way up (WLTK days massively reduces corruption.) For me Markets are simply win-win-win. Cash flow increases. Happiness increases. Productivity increases. It may not look like its a big deal now but look at it this way, we already have ivory and gem, furs are pretty much ours, and up north in Aztec territory are dyes. Since we've already decided the Aztecs are gonna go bye bye soon, we pretty much have four set luxuries. Once we get those 4 luxs under our disposal our marketed towns' happiness will skyrocket, as will our cash, as will our productivity. By building markets now, it will optimize our productivity by boosting happiness the second those luxs are hooked up.
This is just my opinion, but our military can pretty much be handled by Zeus for right now (with the occasional cat and MI from our already marketed cities.) We should take this "Militarily set" opportunity to build up our cities. And for me that means cash flow.
Please feel free to object or refute anything I've said. Like I said, this is almost always my basic Civ game plan, and if you see a flaw in said plan please let me know. It's very possible my love of cash and happy people is clouding my judgment.
Geez, I talk too much.
I mentioned earlier someone new to SGs who tried to get into another game I was playing that just ended. I told him that he would be welcome here, so I'll go back to watching and commenting and he can take my spot.
geonnyboy, I agree completely on marketplaces. My criticism of a few marketplace builds was because they were in places where the difference in commerce they would make would be no more than the maintenance cost of the marketplace, and since we have two luxuries at the moment it means they have no effect on happiness. Those cities might be better suited to markets when they have grown and have courthouses.
geonnyboy, I agree completely on marketplaces. My criticism of a few marketplace builds was because they were in places where the difference in commerce they would make would be no more than the maintenance cost of the marketplace, and since we have two luxuries at the moment it means they have no effect on happiness. Those cities might be better suited to markets when they have grown and have courthouses.
I'm fishing for it for my birthday(November) though.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
Tmarcl1 -50AD
Ok, I’ll make a complete round through our cities and comment on building orders; disagree on nearly everthing. First, lower Lux tax to 10%
City/ is building/ should build:
· Washington @ size 9 (no happiness problems!), 20spt/ Settler in 1, with growth in 5, not working high commerce tiles (Horses)/ 20sp item (Cat or Spear); before MDI switched to Swords @15spt to speed growth
· Rome is resisting for now
· Tenochtitlan has 4/5 Aztec citizens – set to starve down by hiring Scientists/ Temple/ Temple
· Teotihuacan (Ivory) has 2/3 Aztecs – same/ Courthouse / Temple (it did have expanded borders before)
· New York @ size 6 – hire Scientist/ Temple/ Temple
· Boston @ size 4 has Market, has 2 Gems/ Horseman/ Granary and growth; should work at least one Gem for commerce, needs Irrigation
· Philadelphia @ size 7 – has Market, has Temple / Harbor/ Harbor + Granary
· Atlanta @10spt / Horse /Sword; we’ll focus on MDI, and ACav are our fast movers
· Chicago (Northern Gems, our worst core city) / Market /Workers (but with all those shields already in the box, I switch to Granary first)
· Seattle @ size 6, has Aquaduct/ Market /Market
· Xochicalco @ size 3, all Americans/ Temple/ Temple
· San Francisco @ size 6, 6fpt surplus, happiness problem/ Aquaduct rushed/ Market, and will do nothing but pump out Settlers from then
· Miami @ size 6, 4spt/ Market in 23, but works lots of no shield tiles/ Courthouse?
· Houston / Court/ Galley for now, since we need it; rush one there
· Buffalo / Worker in 5, with growth in 5/ fine
· St. Louis/ Worker in 2, growth in 9( not great, but we need Workers
· Detroit @1spt/ Galley/ Cat, then Worker
· New Orleans @1spt/ Galley in 27, with growth in 7/ Worker with growth
· Baltimore / Worker in 10, growth in 10/ fine
Checking the tech situation, and switch Washington to Colosseum as Sun Tzu’s prebuild
Hiring a number of Scientist also means Feud in 3.
Something highly ineffective:
Workers must be stacked. With an IND Civ, 2 Workers build a Road in 1 turn, 3 irrigate etc.
This is a must!
Next: Diplomacy
Maya would sell us Literature for an acceptable price; since we would gain nothing right now, I don’t make the deal, but maybe I a few turns. We do want the Libraries.
Rome would offer 3 other cities, but not Viruconium
You know which city I will destroy before peace, unless they give it to us after the next attacks…
Enter.
IBT: Hiawatha demands Republic, but backs down. Couple Roman Archers. Iroquois Settler will grab the Roman Furs. Definitely not for long.
Frisco Market-> Worker
Houston Galley-> Court
Turn 1: 70AD
Kill Romans. Loose Vet ACav
. No Leaders.
IBT:
Atlanta Sword-> Sword (MDI), St. Louis Worker-> Worker
Turn 2: 90AD
Nothing.
IBT:
Iros pouch our Furs, will need to rush a Temple in Rome soon.
Feudalism-> Engineering (Trebs, forestry, river crossing)
ACav.
Turn 3: 110AD
None of the Civs we know has Feudalism.
Upgrade a bunch of units.
Capture Neapolis, comes with Harbor.
Oh, we have WW; Lux to 20%.
On second thought, I buy Literature from Mayans for 200gp and 8gpt, and switch Washington to Library; 16 turns for Engineering is too much for my taste. Turn off research for this turn, to gather money for the Temple in Rome
IBT:
Washington Library-> SunTzu’s (I’d rather get Sistine, btw; but both wonders are of course open for discussion), New York Temple-> MDI, Philadelphia Harbor-> Granary, Frisco Worker-> Settler
Turn 4: 130AD
Sell Literature to Iros for 140gp, and to Aztecs for a Worker. We will never get market price anyway, better they waste shields for a wonder.
No fights, except killing a Roman conscript Warrior.
Rush Temple in Rome.
Philly won’t complete Granary before growth, switched to Galley,
IBT:
Rome Temple-> Barracks, Buffalo Worker-> Court
Turn 5: 150AD
Mayans know Feudalism.
Kill a couple of Roman Archers and Warriors. Note they will give Viroconium now, but I still wait for the elite units to heal.
IBT:
Atlanta MDI-> MDI
Galley survives in the Ocean.
Turn 6: 170AD
Zzzz..
IBT:
Rome wants to talk, no.
Boston Granary-> Pike, Philly Galley -> Granary, Detroit Cat-> Court
Turn 7: 190AD
Kill a stack of Roman trash, but no promotions
IBT:
New York MDI-> Library, Chicago Granary -> Worker
Galley survives another turn.
Turn 8: 210AD
Zzz..
IBT:
Romes borders expand, netting us Furs.
Seattle Market-> Granary
Grrr…in sight of coast, our Galley sinks. Note there are no borders visible here, so it may not be the best direction; the next suicide run should be farther North IMHO.
Turn 9: 230AD
Capture Pisae and 4 Slaves.
IBT:
Atlanta MDI-> Granary, Frisco Settler-> Settler, St. Louis Worker-> Granary, Baltimore Worker-> Court
Turn 10: 250AD
Kill the last easy Roman target with an elite ACav, but nothing. Make peace with Rome for Viroconium and Lugdunum (tundra coast) and Byzantium (next to Aztec Dyes, needs reinforcements!).
Next Settler could found between New York and Gandasetaigon. Important: This is not a big lake, it is a small Ocean! (Why do I know that? ) Thus we can build coastal improvements or wonders there.
MyMid-term strategy:
Lay down roads towards Aztecs. Ship reinforcements to Byzantium. Kill them off.
About the only city that looks quite nice for the FP is Malinalco after clearing the swamps. If we do not eliminate the Aztecs during the next war, raze/replace. We don’t want a FP city with the slightest flip risk.
On research:
The upper branch of the tree.
Sorry, forgot a screenshot, could the next player please make one ASAP, if possible with Malinalco and other possible targets for the FP?
The Save
Ok, I’ll make a complete round through our cities and comment on building orders; disagree on nearly everthing. First, lower Lux tax to 10%
City/ is building/ should build:
· Washington @ size 9 (no happiness problems!), 20spt/ Settler in 1, with growth in 5, not working high commerce tiles (Horses)/ 20sp item (Cat or Spear); before MDI switched to Swords @15spt to speed growth
· Rome is resisting for now
· Tenochtitlan has 4/5 Aztec citizens – set to starve down by hiring Scientists/ Temple/ Temple
· Teotihuacan (Ivory) has 2/3 Aztecs – same/ Courthouse / Temple (it did have expanded borders before)
· New York @ size 6 – hire Scientist/ Temple/ Temple
· Boston @ size 4 has Market, has 2 Gems/ Horseman/ Granary and growth; should work at least one Gem for commerce, needs Irrigation
· Philadelphia @ size 7 – has Market, has Temple / Harbor/ Harbor + Granary
· Atlanta @10spt / Horse /Sword; we’ll focus on MDI, and ACav are our fast movers
· Chicago (Northern Gems, our worst core city) / Market /Workers (but with all those shields already in the box, I switch to Granary first)
· Seattle @ size 6, has Aquaduct/ Market /Market
· Xochicalco @ size 3, all Americans/ Temple/ Temple
· San Francisco @ size 6, 6fpt surplus, happiness problem/ Aquaduct rushed/ Market, and will do nothing but pump out Settlers from then
· Miami @ size 6, 4spt/ Market in 23, but works lots of no shield tiles/ Courthouse?
· Houston / Court/ Galley for now, since we need it; rush one there
· Buffalo / Worker in 5, with growth in 5/ fine
· St. Louis/ Worker in 2, growth in 9( not great, but we need Workers
· Detroit @1spt/ Galley/ Cat, then Worker
· New Orleans @1spt/ Galley in 27, with growth in 7/ Worker with growth
· Baltimore / Worker in 10, growth in 10/ fine
Checking the tech situation, and switch Washington to Colosseum as Sun Tzu’s prebuild
Hiring a number of Scientist also means Feud in 3.
Something highly ineffective:
Workers must be stacked. With an IND Civ, 2 Workers build a Road in 1 turn, 3 irrigate etc.
This is a must!
Next: Diplomacy
Maya would sell us Literature for an acceptable price; since we would gain nothing right now, I don’t make the deal, but maybe I a few turns. We do want the Libraries.
Rome would offer 3 other cities, but not Viruconium
You know which city I will destroy before peace, unless they give it to us after the next attacks…Enter.
IBT: Hiawatha demands Republic, but backs down. Couple Roman Archers. Iroquois Settler will grab the Roman Furs. Definitely not for long.
Frisco Market-> Worker
Houston Galley-> Court
Turn 1: 70AD
Kill Romans. Loose Vet ACav
. No Leaders.IBT:
Atlanta Sword-> Sword (MDI), St. Louis Worker-> Worker
Turn 2: 90AD
Nothing.
IBT:
Iros pouch our Furs, will need to rush a Temple in Rome soon.
Feudalism-> Engineering (Trebs, forestry, river crossing)
ACav.
Turn 3: 110AD
None of the Civs we know has Feudalism.
Upgrade a bunch of units.
Capture Neapolis, comes with Harbor.
Oh, we have WW; Lux to 20%.
On second thought, I buy Literature from Mayans for 200gp and 8gpt, and switch Washington to Library; 16 turns for Engineering is too much for my taste. Turn off research for this turn, to gather money for the Temple in Rome
IBT:
Washington Library-> SunTzu’s (I’d rather get Sistine, btw; but both wonders are of course open for discussion), New York Temple-> MDI, Philadelphia Harbor-> Granary, Frisco Worker-> Settler
Turn 4: 130AD
Sell Literature to Iros for 140gp, and to Aztecs for a Worker. We will never get market price anyway, better they waste shields for a wonder.
No fights, except killing a Roman conscript Warrior.
Rush Temple in Rome.
Philly won’t complete Granary before growth, switched to Galley,
IBT:
Rome Temple-> Barracks, Buffalo Worker-> Court
Turn 5: 150AD
Mayans know Feudalism.
Kill a couple of Roman Archers and Warriors. Note they will give Viroconium now, but I still wait for the elite units to heal.
IBT:
Atlanta MDI-> MDI
Galley survives in the Ocean.
Turn 6: 170AD
Zzzz..
IBT:
Rome wants to talk, no.
Boston Granary-> Pike, Philly Galley -> Granary, Detroit Cat-> Court
Turn 7: 190AD
Kill a stack of Roman trash, but no promotions
IBT:
New York MDI-> Library, Chicago Granary -> Worker
Galley survives another turn.
Turn 8: 210AD
Zzz..
IBT:
Romes borders expand, netting us Furs.
Seattle Market-> Granary
Grrr…in sight of coast, our Galley sinks. Note there are no borders visible here, so it may not be the best direction; the next suicide run should be farther North IMHO.
Turn 9: 230AD
Capture Pisae and 4 Slaves.
IBT:
Atlanta MDI-> Granary, Frisco Settler-> Settler, St. Louis Worker-> Granary, Baltimore Worker-> Court
Turn 10: 250AD
Kill the last easy Roman target with an elite ACav, but nothing. Make peace with Rome for Viroconium and Lugdunum (tundra coast) and Byzantium (next to Aztec Dyes, needs reinforcements!).
Next Settler could found between New York and Gandasetaigon. Important: This is not a big lake, it is a small Ocean! (Why do I know that
? ) Thus we can build coastal improvements or wonders there.MyMid-term strategy:
Lay down roads towards Aztecs. Ship reinforcements to Byzantium. Kill them off.
About the only city that looks quite nice for the FP is Malinalco after clearing the swamps. If we do not eliminate the Aztecs during the next war, raze/replace. We don’t want a FP city with the slightest flip risk.
On research:
The upper branch of the tree.
Sorry, forgot a screenshot, could the next player please make one ASAP, if possible with Malinalco and other possible targets for the FP?
The Save
geonnyboy
Building type Guy
Good deal. We're prolonging war with the Romans only until we get a leader for our FP right? How many turns to declairing war against the Aztecs do we have to wait before WW will wear out?
Hey did we declare war on Rome? Or did they declare on us? (I'm playing a game where I have to declare war as a republic and I want to be sure I know when WW occurs when playing the aggressor.)
Who's next in the lineup?
Hey did we declare war on Rome? Or did they declare on us? (I'm playing a game where I have to declare war as a republic and I want to be sure I know when WW occurs when playing the aggressor.)
Who's next in the lineup?
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
IIRC we declared on Rome; WW had kicked in pretty soon. But I signed a peace treaty already, once they were willing to give 3 cities including Viroconium (which must have a resource, because they didn't give it before, when they already offered 3 other size 1 cities), and all Elites were redlined. Note I would have used a MGL for a MDI Army anyway, to enable the Heroic Epic, not kept him around for the FP in the far future.
No, we won't get the Aztecs to declare on us. But we now have 3 Luxes, and if the war is wellconducted, the first city to fall is the one at the Dyes, with a Settler at hand to replace it on the Dyes.
No, we won't get the Aztecs to declare on us. But we now have 3 Luxes, and if the war is wellconducted, the first city to fall is the one at the Dyes, with a Settler at hand to replace it on the Dyes.
Michelangelo
Prince
Great progress DocT. I really like the build-queue comments. I've got some questions though:
NewYork, Why hire a scientist, can't it grow to size 7 for unit support? (I don't have Civ3 here and I don't recall if it has aquaduct)
In turn 4 you gave away Literature to the Aztecs. Would other civs do this also so they would get it anyway. Wouldn't it be better to deprive them of Lit.
I'm going to look at the save tonight.
PS. On the previous page tmarcl and myself asked a couple of questions. You probably missed them bc of new forum page. Could you comment on them?
NewYork, Why hire a scientist, can't it grow to size 7 for unit support? (I don't have Civ3 here and I don't recall if it has aquaduct)
In turn 4 you gave away Literature to the Aztecs. Would other civs do this also so they would get it anyway. Wouldn't it be better to deprive them of Lit.
I'm going to look at the save tonight.
PS. On the previous page tmarcl and myself asked a couple of questions. You probably missed them bc of new forum page. Could you comment on them?
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
Because I would have needed 10% more Lux solely for that city before it completed the Temple
. And it is at a lake btw.Not true. I sold it for a Worker (=110gp, but of course worth more), which is more than we'd ever had to expect from them in cash. And Literature is useless for the Civs on our continent; they have no chance for the GLib, and won't research anything problematic before they are dead.
Core is core. It just may become smaller.
A coastal city with low production that works mostly coastal tiles after finishing Harbor/Market/Library. Coast = 3gpt. Those towns/ cities bring in oodles of cash.
Did I miss any questions?
Michelangelo
Prince
Thanx DocT. I should have known NY didn't need a aquaduct bc of lake. 
I've got 1 more (earlier) question. Does the mood of the citizens (happy/content/sad) affect the amount of shields/gold produced. I know it's increased during WLTK.
Have fun Tmarcl
I've got 1 more (earlier) question. Does the mood of the citizens (happy/content/sad) affect the amount of shields/gold produced. I know it's increased during WLTK.
Have fun Tmarcl
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
No.
(The message you have entered is too short, bla bla)
Michelangelo
Prince
Is anyone playing right now? If not and if you're feeling any better, tmarcl, you could probably take your turn anyway, otherwise it's geonny who is next in line.
We should keep this game going.
We should keep this game going.
geonnyboy
Building type Guy
Oh snap, I'm up after tmarcl? I can pick up the game tonight if tmarcl's still not feeling well.
I had a question about markets and I would love to get some veteran feedback. Is the primary purpose for markets happiness with the extra cash as a bonus, or is it cash with a happiness bonus? I more inclined to think the later, which is why I feel we need a market in DC, our cash cow of the empire. Am I wrong in thinking this or does my justification have some weight?
Also, what should be the next plan of action be, infrastructure building or army building? Were at peace now right?
I had a question about markets and I would love to get some veteran feedback. Is the primary purpose for markets happiness with the extra cash as a bonus, or is it cash with a happiness bonus? I more inclined to think the later, which is why I feel we need a market in DC, our cash cow of the empire. Am I wrong in thinking this or does my justification have some weight?
Also, what should be the next plan of action be, infrastructure building or army building? Were at peace now right?
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
I would be really surprised if Washington has no Market
Plan: Build up a bit, road towards Aztecs. Ship reinforcements + a Settler for the Dyes to Byzantium (you can speed that up alot when you rush Barracks there, and a few Vet Warrior, then the Harbor, and upgrade them to MDI.
Should be done around your last turns. Maybe start of the next player.
Then,
!
Plan: Build up a bit, road towards Aztecs. Ship reinforcements + a Settler for the Dyes to Byzantium (you can speed that up alot when you rush Barracks there, and a few Vet Warrior, then the Harbor, and upgrade them to MDI.
Should be done around your last turns. Maybe start of the next player.
Then,
!
geonnyboy
Building type Guy
Ah, very well then. Unless tmarcl wants to claim this round, I pledge to have a solid round of military build up. We will have enough pointy sticks and rock flinging, umm, thingies to drive the scurrilous Aztec heathens into the sea. Which will give us the means to supply our ever-growing population enough dyes to make all of the tie dyed shirts theyll ever need (freakin hippies.)
Unless there are any objections from the military tribunal (umm, like, you guys), I will pick up the task tonight.
(Decided to jazz it up this post.)
Unless there are any objections from the military tribunal (umm, like, you guys), I will pick up the task tonight.
(Decided to jazz it up this post.)
Similar threads
