Lost Basium, lost his traits.

[DaveGold]

I was playing the Mercurians and lost Basium when he attacked at 98.9%. Darn it! I then found that his leader abilities, raiders and upgrade, were lost too. I resurrected Basium later and did not get any leader abilities back.

Is this all working as intended? It could be, but I've never seen it before, and it would have been nice to get the real Basium back entirely when he was resurrected.

 

[Earthling]

Think it is intended - at least, not sure about the resurrection part, but while he is dead (same as Hybo) you definitely lose leader traits. Note fallow is a civilization trait so the Infernals don't lose that.

 

[Tholal]

Is this all working as intended?

The lost traits part, yes (this also happens with Hyborem and Auric Ascended).

Not sure about the resurrection.

 

[Tasunke]

well, personally I think that upon Ressurection Bazzie and Hybo should get their traits back.

 

[Azhral]

Especially since when Hybo dies for the first time and uses up his Immortal promo, his traits are lost. Or were, might have been fixed by now.

 

[kumquatelvis]

I think they did fix that one.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Hyborem's second death costs his traits, but the loss of one time immortality does not.


I agree that Resurrection should restore the leader traits. I could have sworn that I made it so in my modmod, but that does not seem to be the case there either.

I haven't really been in the mood for modding much lately but if I do release something else this summer this should be corrected.

(Actually, I'm thinking the restoration of traits will be handled not by the spell but by the initialization of the unit. That way you could get your traits back if you give yourself the proper hero using worldbuilder.)

I may go ahead and try to improve Resurrection further. I was thinking that I'd want to make the spell trigger an event that lets you select what hero to bring back (including civ heroes, religious heroes, unaffiliated heroes like Duin and Mary, and Adventurers which have already died), preferably with xp, levels, and promotions intact. I'd also want to make it so that units killed by The Netherblade cannot be brought back until the equipment is destroyed. I suspect the code for that would be too complex though.

I might end up just splitting the spell into one version per hero, or maybe just adding extra resurrection spells for the units the spell does not currently bring back.. The War Machine and Mithril Golem would probably leave pieces behind like Barnaxus and not use Life III. Black Wind would probably be rebuilt from an improvement representing its wreckage, as the graphics of a shipwreck improvement are already in the game. I was thinking I'd need a complex system of trophies to prevent resurrection after death by Netherblade, but it might be easier to instead create an invisible dummy unit of the same unitclass as each hero and place on on the map under barbarian control whenever a hero is killed by this equipment.



Edit: Now that I think of it, I did create an alternate means of bringing Basium back and regaining his traits. I'm thinking I may allow Resurrection only for heroes that would be alive.

 

[Azhral]

I'm thinking I may allow Resurrection only for heroes that would be alive.

Perhaps then adding some horribly expensive rituals to bring back Hyborem and/or Basium? Perhaps one for Brigit aswell.

And one really would need some other way of storing heroes data rather than with invisible dummy barbarian units, I can see that going wrong in so many ways.

 

[Brokenbone]

MC always has interesting ideas... hadn't even crossed my mind that Grigori are the one civ which at present cannot benefit from the Life III rez spell. None of their adventurers are like a "singular" civ hero which the spell can target. They'll never get Sphener and his Life III since they can't follow the Order, but I guess it's a reminder for their Archmages to never bother with Life III.

 

[DaveGold]

Personally I think it's a bit tough losing your national traits when you lose your hero. Basium and Hyborem are meant to be active, meant to cut through very basic defences, so there's always a chance that there will be a bit of bad luck on that 98% attack. You shouldn't have to reload or write off your game at that point. Getting the abilities back upon resurrection seems a sensible way to redeem your game as these nations bend the rules on mortality already.

 

[esvath]

It would be cool if the Grigori can ressurect their heroes; the question is, how to do that?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

The last version of my modmod which I released allows the Grigori to use Resurrection to gain an Adventurer so long as they do not own any units with the adventurer promotion (which Adventurers and Upgraded Adventurers would have).

I cannot however think of a way that would bring back an adventurer of the same name as it had before. It is easy to argue that the adventurer being Resurrected was one that died in a previous age, although why you have to wait for your current heroes to due first makes no sense then. For a while I actually had it so that you could just keep on resurrecting adventurer after adventurer with no limits, but that got overpowered fast. I suppose I could instead opt to remove the hard limit but make the spell have a chance to fail, a chance that increases based on how many adventurers one currently owns. I could also have the option of miscasting and giving an adventurer to an enemy (including the possibility of the barbarian state). After all, why should a hero from a age before the Grigori existed be loyal to these strangers when there cold be empires who revere them as legendary forefathers? I can definitely picture the Grigiri bringing back Asena only to have him betray them to the Doviello.

 

[Deon]

You could make it to remove Life III upon failure, like Domination works.

 

[Tasunke]

What about making Life III act kind of like the Recruit mercenary spell? Have a selection where you can choose among any unit that has died under your command that had either the hero or adventurer promotion.

Perhaps a name and an icon, or even just the name. (and level) ... hopefully their stats at time of death can be saved somehow, for usage of this spell.

 

[jrandrew]

My guess is that the hard part about bringing back units like this is that there is no current data structure to store units that have died with individual details. It probably would involve some surgery on the code (not sure if it is python or in the DLL) for when a unit dies, to save its details.)

I think right now there are ways to detect if a singular world unit dies (e.g. for Shrine of the Champion), but that is probably simpler then detecting individual details about an array of units, like if any one of a group of adventurers had died.

If we're going to allow players to resurrect units, and build the code structure to allow units with particular details to be resurrected, why not allow any (formerly) living unit to be brought back? Why limit it to heroes? I sort of get the story/lore point of only resurrecting heroes, but seems like it would give the player more options as long as they are making a big sacrifice by already losing the one-shot Life III promotion anyway.

 

[Tasunke]

Even with a single unit dying, thats not storing data per se ... we would need for a separate array for every nation ... to store the data of every hero that fought for that nation.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

The game actually does not currently check to see if a hero has died, but rather if the player currently owns one and whether the world limit is maxed out. The Resurrection spell also checks to see if any other player owns an instance of the unit, but the Shrine of the Champion does not so it can be built when another player owns your hero.


One could try storing data through trophies, but that would not stay contained within one game (much like how Lucian's xp is saved for later games in the scenarios). It probably wouldn't be too hard for Kael or Xienwolf to make a method to store the data within a single game, but I have no idea how and it would likely still be inefficient.

 

[Azhral]

Surely each game has a unique identifier of some sort? This would surely lead to a bloated Trophies folder however, but certainly no worse than most of our save folders by now