Lost Eden development thread

[vyeh]

I'll just copy and paste it here:

Looks okay.

And naughty vyeh! Now you have sicked two very advanced mods on me and my brain was like "Gah this is so complex to take in all at once!" It doesn't help that I don't play the normal game very much although I do understand most of it. It's no problem, I'm just going to give them a go on the weekend and then comment.

Even if you don't play the normal game, you should have insight from your mod. And maybe you will get some ideas. Anyway, it is more interesting to have more people.

Tragically I do not have permission to view that post.

Sorry. Here it is:

The bonuses below do not count towards limit of 8:

#BONUS
Morale Modifier
Psi Combat Modifier (%)
Research Bonus Per Base
Extra Drone Per Base
Extra Talent Per Base
Bonus Energy Reserve
Energy Interest (%)
Bonus Commerce Rate
Population Bonus
Hurry Modifier (%)
Research Modifer (%)
Share Technology
Select Technologies
Terraform Bonus
Bonus Commfrequency
Immunity to Mind Control
25% Attack Bonus
Free Prototypes
Aquatic Faction
Alien Faction
Worm Police
Share Tech w/ Infiltrator
Steal Tech

#BONUSCODES
MORALE
PSI
RESEARCH
DRONE
TALENT
ENERGY
INTEREST
COMMERCE
POPULATION
HURRY
TECHCOST
TECHSHARE
SELECTTECH
TERRAFORM
COMMFREQ
MINDCONTROL
FANATIC
FREEPROTO
AQUATIC
ALIEN
WORMPOLICE
SHARETECH
TECHSTEAL

========================
The abilities below are limited to 8 only:

#LIMITEDBONUS
Free Tech.
Free Facility
Free Vehicle
Social Benefit
Robust
Immunity
Impunity
Penalty
Fungus Nutrient
Fungus Mineral
Fungus Energy
Bonus Votes
Free Facility (Prereq.)
Revolt
No Drone
Free Ability (Prereq.)
Probe Cost
Defense
Offense

#LIMITEDBONUSCODES
TECH
FACILITY
UNIT
SOCIAL
ROBUST
IMMUNITY
IMPUNITY
PENALTY
FUNGNUTRIENT
FUNGMINERALS
FUNGENERGY
VOTES
FREEFAC
REVOLT
NODRONE
FREEABIL
PROBECOST
DEFENSE
OFFENSE

Somewhat. I could probably define it best as light entertainment. It's playing a game, with narration that attempts to be assuming. Here is my channel if you want to hear my weird Australian voice.

You should look at The Sleeper Must Awaken: Lazymod AAR.

EDIT: I started an AI test this morning, so far Fallen is the most powerful (this is turn 300), although Rakis, Realm were tied for most powerful for most of the game. Saig (CyndaTech) is going somewhat okay, better than Adventurers who are the other weak AI faction. I'm just trying to change the AI-sensitive settings to make sure that all factions can be a challenge or at least not pathetic.

Fallen is still the most powerful. What are those stats again?

 

[Kilkakon]

Even if you don't play the normal game, you should have insight from your mod. And maybe you will get some ideas. Anyway, it is more interesting to have more people.

Oh I'm not complaining, it's just I'm being used and valued as a community member, which is an exciting new experience for me.

Sorry. Here it is:

Your data has been received and judged most useful. My thanks.



Using your guide, the only way to give them that Immunity is to take something away that they already have:
+1 SUPPORT: {Social dominance}
+2 INDUSTRY: {Brutal serfdom}
-1 PLANET: {Hatred towards native life}
-1 MORALE: {Oppressive society with tragic overtones}
1 in every 4 citizens are unhappy.
Begins with 3 SUPPLY CRAWLERS (unique units).
Impunity to ATHEISM penalty: {Scientists forced to work harder to compensated for reduced freedom.}
{May not pursue Perfect Society}
The only lines that doesn't count towards the 8 are the extra unhappies and the anti-idealogy. So I either remove a supply crawler or a social effect if I want the impunity, or just forget about it.

When scient is able to get COMMFREQ working, I'll probably give that to Edge (Rakis), as it seems to fit her.

You should look at The Sleeper Must Awaken: Lazymod AAR.

That's pretty epic. Small world though hey, I happen to be playing Dune and there's a Dune playthrough for Alpha Centuari. Lazytown made me laugh too, that's a weird as kids show. I wish I knew how to take screenshots in Alpha Centuari, it would help some things a lot.

Fallen is still the most powerful. What are those stats again?

+1 GROWTH: {Procreation encouraged}
-2 POLICE: {Lack of moral code}
-1 PLANET: {Apathy towards clean operation}
Free TEMPLE in every base
Impunity to DEMONISM penalty: {Followers delight in dark pleasures}
{May not embrace Christianity in Social Engineering.}

I will note that he was a lot fairer over the whole game though. He's still the best but not as much as he used to be. The Realm of Light is still a tough contender as well though.

Edit: Finally I managed to get some of the drawings down, as well as getting a logo for Vixen's Path figured out. Current todo list:

entertainer drawing
arena/ranger/betrayed icons
lost eden title screen
faction/technology quotes
a lot of background text and information, datalinks, etc.
flcs

xcom

beacon spire
striker x22
give hambino's folks a go

 

[vyeh]

Oh I'm not complaining, it's just I'm being used and valued as a community member, which is an exciting new experience for me.

I am glad the experience is exciting and sorry it is a new one.

Your data has been received and judged most useful. My thanks.

You're welcome.

Using your guide, the only way to give them that Immunity is to take something away that they already have:
+1 SUPPORT: {Social dominance}
+2 INDUSTRY: {Brutal serfdom}
-1 PLANET: {Hatred towards native life}
-1 MORALE: {Oppressive society with tragic overtones}
1 in every 4 citizens are unhappy.
Begins with 3 SUPPLY CRAWLERS (unique units).
Impunity to ATHEISM penalty: {Scientists forced to work harder to compensated for reduced freedom.}
{May not pursue Perfect Society}
The only lines that doesn't count towards the 8 are the extra unhappies and the anti-idealogy. So I either remove a supply crawler or a social effect if I want the impunity, or just forget about it.

I'd remove a SUPPLY CRAWLER. The AI doesn't know how to home them anyway. And maybe you could start another thread to see if scient can easily raise the limit.

When scient is able to get COMMFREQ working, I'll probably give that to Edge (Rakis), as it seems to fit her.

Strange how it wasn't implemented.

That's pretty epic. Small world though hey, I happen to be playing Dune and there's a Dune playthrough for Alpha Centuari. Lazytown made me laugh too, that's a weird as kids show. I wish I knew how to take screenshots in Alpha Centuari, it would help some things a lot.

Try the Apolyton FAQ, question 23. If that doesn't help, start a new thread in this forum, and Petek should be able to help you quickly. (I'm assuming you have Windows; if you have Mac, I can tell you how to get screenshots.)

+1 GROWTH: {Procreation encouraged}
-2 POLICE: {Lack of moral code}
-1 PLANET: {Apathy towards clean operation}
Free TEMPLE in every base
Impunity to DEMONISM penalty: {Followers delight in dark pleasures}
{May not embrace Christianity in Social Engineering.}

I will note that he was a lot fairer over the whole game though. He's still the best but not as much as he used to be.

Maybe another penalty?

The Realm of Light is still a tough contender as well though.

What are the stats for The Realm of Light.

Edit: Finally I managed to get some of the drawings down, as well as getting a logo for Vixen's Path figured out. Current todo list:

entertainer drawing
arena/ranger/betrayed icons
lost eden title screen
faction/technology quotes
a lot of background text and information, datalinks, etc.
flcs

xcom

beacon spire
striker x22
give hambino's folks a go

And at some point, we can go through the changes in alphax.txt.

 

[Kilkakon]

I am glad the experience is exciting and sorry it is a new one.

Sure no worries.

I'd remove a SUPPLY CRAWLER. The AI doesn't know how to home them anyway. And maybe you could start another thread to see if scient can easily raise the limit.

Alright I'll remove a crawler.

Strange how it wasn't implemented.

Yeah.

Try the Apolyton FAQ, question 23. If that doesn't help, start a new thread in this forum, and Petek should be able to help you quickly. (I'm assuming you have Windows; if you have Mac, I can tell you how to get screenshots.)

It works! And yes I'm not using a Mac.

I've realised now that the Carnivines are done already (that was done by me instead of my friend) so we could probably get the nudity checked by a moderator to see if it's suitable or not straight away.

Maybe another penalty?

Alright, what do you think would work for a perverted leader? Probably an order penalty.

What are the stats for The Realm of Light.

+25% ATTACK: {Strength of convictions}
-1 GROWTH: {Many people reject the Light}
-1 POLICE: {Forgiving, kind society}
1 in every 4 citizens are happy.
Impunity to CHRISTIANITY penalty: {Followers willingly choose to have large families}
{May not embrace Demonism in Social Engineering.}

And at some point, we can go through the changes in alphax.txt.

Of course.

 

[vyeh]

It works! And yes I'm not using a Mac.

Good.

I've realised now that the Carnivines are done already (that was done by me instead of my friend) so we could probably get the nudity checked by a moderator to see if it's suitable or not straight away.

Feel free to post at CGN OT and PM Petek (he visits CGN daily so you can use either PM system).

Alright, what do you think would work for a perverted leader? Probably an order penalty.

An EFFICIENCY penalty sounds good.

+25% ATTACK: {Strength of convictions}
-1 GROWTH: {Many people reject the Light}
-1 POLICE: {Forgiving, kind society}
1 in every 4 citizens are happy.
Impunity to CHRISTIANITY penalty: {Followers willingly choose to have large families}
{May not embrace Demonism in Social Engineering.}

A FANATIC faction? I suppose we could give it a RESEARCH penalty (although that may be too similar to Miriam). Can you post the other datalink material (and maybe some of the diplomatic language)?

 

[Kilkakon]

Feel free to post at CGN OT and PM Petek (he visits CGN daily so you can use either PM system).

Okay sure I will, when my cousin's asleep as she is playing with me at the moment.

An EFFICIENCY penalty sounds good.

Okay then, consider it done.

A FANATIC faction? I suppose we could give it a RESEARCH penalty (although that may be too similar to Miriam). Can you post the other datalink material (and maybe some of the diplomatic language)?

Okay here are the datalink entries.

LEADER: {Brother-General Tristan}
SPECIES: {Totodile}
AGENDA: {Bringing love and Christainity to all}
TECH: {Charmander Courage}

live the way God wants us to live
to protect the sanctity of this place
blinding everybody under his "light" fantasy
blinding everybody under your "light" fantasy
enslave this world using your "light" pretense
dancing crazily around his church
dancing crazily around your church
being too dependant on others for support
strict laws, M1
quest to save this world, M1
deluded fantasies, M2
donation, M1
upholding standards of decency and morality
the Warriors of Light
the Way of Truth

Truce:
"Recently I have seen the Lord's advice, and he says
there is no need for this conflict to continue, $NAME1.
Do you wish to pledge a Blood Truce with us?"
"Yes. Let us stop this worthless fighting."
"Never! The 'light' shall never control me!"

Treaty:
"$NAME1, as you know I desire to build a society where
love and freedom flourish and grow forever. With your cooperation,
and the the power of the Light of Jesus Christ, we can
make this a reality. Will you make it happen $NAME3? The choice is yours."
"Yes. May power, peace and blessings flow for us both."
"No. I will not let you blind me, $NAME3."

As for the stats, I would prefer not having a research penalty. This team is the opposite of the Believers in terms of idealogy -- they are pacifists.

 

[vyeh]

Okay here are the datalink entries.

LEADER: {Brother-General Tristan}
SPECIES: {Totodile}
AGENDA: {Bringing love and Christainity to all}
TECH: {Charmander Courage}

live the way God wants us to live
to protect the sanctity of this place
blinding everybody under his "light" fantasy
blinding everybody under your "light" fantasy
enslave this world using your "light" pretense
dancing crazily around his church
dancing crazily around your church
being too dependant on others for support
strict laws, M1
quest to save this world, M1
deluded fantasies, M2
donation, M1
upholding standards of decency and morality
the Warriors of Light
the Way of Truth

Truce:
"Recently I have seen the Lord's advice, and he says
there is no need for this conflict to continue, $NAME1.
Do you wish to pledge a Blood Truce with us?"
"Yes. Let us stop this worthless fighting."
"Never! The 'light' shall never control me!"

Treaty:
"$NAME1, as you know I desire to build a society where
love and freedom flourish and grow forever. With your cooperation,
and the the power of the Light of Jesus Christ, we can
make this a reality. Will you make it happen $NAME3? The choice is yours."
"Yes. May power, peace and blessings flow for us both."
"No. I will not let you blind me, $NAME3."

As for the stats, I would prefer not having a research penalty. This team is the opposite of the Believers in terms of idealogy -- they are pacifists.

-1 INDUSTRY {population practices tithing}

 

[Kilkakon]

Hehe that'll work. It's a big penalty though but we'll see how it tests.

 

[vyeh]

I thought you would like the tithing. After the tests, we can make other adjustments.

 

[hambino]

Okay, I finished Oblivion's FLC. I debated doubling images up in random order for the full 27 frames that the FLCs usually are, but I figured you had the image count for a reason. I also tried to keep the original colors but it turns out the game does weird crap to EVERY color indexed in the palette, so I had to go with a tried-and-true palette, sorry, Kilkakon. Otherwise, I managed to get it all together fairly easily once I colorized/palette swapped, so that's good. I also remembered to make the pure whites off-whites this time, and tested in-game to make sure no nasty tobacco stains were present. Everything's pretty much set to go, just waiting on the next image batch.

 

[Kilkakon]

Thanks very much hambino! Shame about the palettes not working -- did you try importing the normal palette that the game uses? If so then I'll just live with the blue. As for not having 27... that's because I didn't have many icons available when I threw everything together. Feel free to add more if you like, as long as they match the general theme of darkness or hell or roses (of course there are three images that I have removed for obvious reasons but yeah. ). The city buildings are a dark red recolour of the Gaian buildings if that helps you. But yeah it's tough to find suitable images for somebody who's a bit dodgy without going overboard.

Sorry about general inactivity yesterday -- I had a cousin over that ate up all my time. Fun, but yeah now I have to do everything from now (just back from church; 2PM) to whenever I crash. I managed to get one game in when they went out (your faction) but that was all.

As for the Lost Eden balance suggestions, I will implement those now vyeh, PM Petek on CGN to see if the units are okay and then launch some test games on the laptop while I either relax for a bit on here (I am quite tired) or get into one of the mods that I promised that I would play.

EDIT: Okay, while I didn't get to those other mods (sorry peeps) I run a few test games. Here are the results:
(removed for the greater good... or just that they are old )

Obviously the Realm of Light's industry penalty cut them down considerably. I will note that I am not sure if I am happy with the Adventurer faction either. I just of course just notice that half of the benefits that we gave them didn't apply (especially the ORDER and POLICE bonuses), but yeah the point of the team was that their advantage was that they had a huge start in exploration -- not sure how this should materialise properly. The newer 7 factions are not balanced yet either but I think we should get the first 7 100% first.


EDIT2: Petek replied and said that the Carnivines are fine! To be on the safe side, any time I add a unit I'll get him to check it before I post it. Here's the first ingame screen!

 

[hambino]

lol the blue IS the game's normal palette.

 

[Kilkakon]

I meant the palette that units.pcx uses, for example.

 

[hambino]

I could give it a shot, but as we're working with indexed palettes, and the indices seem to be different for every portion of the game the images are used for, I don't know if that would work or not.

I'll test a 1-frame .flc and get back to you on that.

 

[Kilkakon]

Okay, thanks.

EDIT: I have the next faction sorta ready, although it's only 14 pictures. Do you think I should find more?

EDIT2: I have just updated techshorts.txt to be more relevant. @vyeh Did you notice the results above?

 

[vyeh]

@vyeh Did you notice the results above?

Which results?

If you are talking about post #191, I did not see that you had edited it.

Okay, while I didn't get to those other mods (sorry peeps) I run a few test games. Here are the results:...
Obviously the Realm of Light's industry penalty cut them down considerably.

Any problem with giving the Realm a + PLANET bonus?

I will note that I am not sure if I am happy with the Adventurer faction either. I just of course just notice that half of the benefits that we gave them didn't apply (especially the ORDER and POLICE bonuses), but yeah the point of the team was that their advantage was that they had a huge start in exploration -- not sure how this should materialise properly.

I don't follow about half of the benefits not applying.

The newer 7 factions are not balanced yet either but I think we should get the first 7 100% first.

I agree.

 

[Kilkakon]

Which results?

If you are talking about post #191, I did not see that you had edited it.

I did yes. I thought that you didn't hence why I mentioned it.

What do you think of the results then? Fallen is still pretty strong (they were only weak when they were on an island or couldn't grow due to close neighbours).

Do you like the screen (on post #191)?

Any problem with giving the Realm a + PLANET bonus?

If so then they end up being a watered down version of the Protectors, whom have -2 INDUSTRY +2 PLANET. I would like to avoid that if we can.

I don't follow about half of the benefits not applying.

Neither -- I meant that I had 10 effects when only the first 8 apply, you know what I mean. So an accurate version of their stats would be:
+1 SUPPORT: {Males live off the land}
+1 MORALE: {Heroic spirit}
-1 GROWTH: {Males leave home for long periods of time to adventure}
-1 PLANET: {Sees native life as a threat to be tamed}
Begins with 3 CHARMANDER EXPLORERS (1/1/2).

I'm happy to soup up the strength of thier explorers (say trance & empath) if you think that would work.

 

[vyeh]

What do you think of the results then? Fallen is still pretty strong (they were only weak when they were on an island or couldn't grow due to close neighbours).

Maybe a small penalty for Fallen. The results look good.

Do you like the screen (on post #191)?

Yes. It looks different from SMAC.

If so then they end up being a watered down version of the Protectors, whom have -2 INDUSTRY +2 PLANET. I would like to avoid that if we can.

How about +1 PROBE instead?

Neither -- I meant that I had 10 effects when only the first 8 apply, you know what I mean. So an accurate version of their stats would be:
+1 SUPPORT: {Males live off the land}
+1 MORALE: {Heroic spirit}
-1 GROWTH: {Males leave home for long periods of time to adventure}
-1 PLANET: {Sees native life as a threat to be tamed}
Begins with 3 CHARMANDER EXPLORERS (1/1/2).

I'm happy to soup up the strength of thier explorers (say trance & empath) if you think that would work.

Let's try it. It will give their CHARMANDER EXPLORERS more staying power. I assume that once the initial three are gone, they can't build more. Is that right?

 

[Kilkakon]

Maybe a small penalty for Fallen. The results look good.

The one where the Fallen completely smashed everybody else was when they landed in a location where there was enough room for them to expand. That's pretty much the only thing that holds them back from owning everybody due to the unholy amount of reproduction that goes on.

How about POPULATION, 1/2? That would cap his growth until he gets Aquadects out.

Yes. It looks different from SMAC.

Thanks.

How about +1 PROBE instead?

Well then they would start to be more Believery again, and while the leader does like manipulative tactics, when he confronts idealogies he does it confidently and powerfully.

I think that any of the following would suit him personality wise:

• INTEREST, 0
• MINDCONTROL, 0 (although I find that city/units are rarely bribed in this game)
• +RESEARCH
• +ORDER
• +ECONOMY
• +SUPPORT

Let's try it. It will give their CHARMANDER EXPLORERS more staying power. I assume that once the initial three are gone, they can't build more. Is that right?

That is correct.

 

[vyeh]

The one where the Fallen completely smashed everybody else was when they landed in a location where there was enough room for them to expand. That's pretty much the only thing that holds them back from owning everybody due to the unholy amount of reproduction that goes on.

How about POPULATION, 1/2? That would cap his growth until he gets Aquadects out.

What does POPULATION, 1 or POPULATION, 2 do?

Well then they would start to be more Believery again, and while the leader does like manipulative tactics, when he confronts idealogies he does it confidently and powerfully.

I think that any of the following would suit him personality wise:

• INTEREST, 0
• MINDCONTROL, 0 (although I find that city/units are rarely bribed in this game)
• +RESEARCH
• +ORDER
• +ECONOMY
• +SUPPORT

Does INTEREST, 0 do anything?

I think increased ORDER or ECONOMY might be interesting. {"Idle hands are the devil's tools"}

Post #200!