LOTR 1 - Daring Deity

[Toecheese3]

I've got it!

Probably won't be posting until later this evening (EST). The wife wants to go shopping for curtains.

If it's any consolation about possibly not getting the Great Library, a game I started yesterday (on Diety) is somewhere in the midgame and I'm holding my own. Granted I'm still about 6 techs behind the leader, but it's not unsalvagable.

Anyhow - BBL with the game and some screenshots.

 

[Toecheese3]

Rough start for the home team -

Preturn 1750 B.C. - Surveyed the situation and decided Heliopolis needs to get into the warrior/worker/settler business and whipped out a temple. The early culture on the future American border will help us later when the cities start flipping.

Between 1750 B.C. and 1725 B.C. - Biz decides to be cute and demands TM and 19gp. Noticing our army totals four warriors, one of which is buried deep in American territory, we oblige.

1725 B.C. - Temple complete at Heliopolis, Warrior ordered for defense of the next city. Worker near Heliopolis moved toward grassland with the shield for development. Worker near fur continues to build road to prep future city site. Traded a world map and 3gp to Liz for Warrior Code. With the possibility of Great Library, I normally wouldn't do this but a) the price was right and b) if Biz or Abe get snippy we'll need at least one good offensive unit (archers). Tried buying some other things but the price is too steep. Treasury will be increasing for the forseeable future. American warriors defeat barbarian camp to NE of Elephantine. 6.1.3 continues to be our best option. Warrior pillages road near incense.

1700 B.C. - Worker starts mine near Heliopolis. Pillage warrior sent to take out barbarian camp near the flood plains.

1675 B.C. - American galley drops off a settler and defensive unit near the furs. This definitely screws up the happiness game plan. Hopefully the proximity of Thebes will cause the city to flip. Warrior completed in Memphis, settler ordered up.

1650 B.C. - Foiled again, Americans defeat barbarian camp our warrior was heading to. Warrior doubles back to incense area to scout pillaging opportunities. Worker ends road building operations near the furs and is ordered to head toward Thebes. Still at 6.1.3.

1625 B.C. - Houston founded. Not good.

1600 B.C. - Heliopolis finishes Warrior, worker ordered up. Americans finish building Pyramids in Washington. Americans also building Oracle (not cascaded).

1575 B.C. Worker building mine near Thebes. No one we know has researched literature yet. Still at 6.1.3.

Between 1575 and 1550 B.C. - Germans builiding Oracle - France completes Oracle (whoops, sorry Biz).

1550 B.C. - Pillaging warrior caught in culture expansion. Started moving out of American territory. Notice American galley heading up the coast - probably toward the open land near Elephantine.

My summary - we're in pretty rough shape. The warrior criss-crossing the American badlands was bad enough, the founding of Houston really sucks. There's nothing we could do about it either, short of switching Thebes production and wasting, oh, a million or so shields. It feels like I didn't accomplish anything in 10 turns - pretty frustrating.

On a high note (if you want to call it that) a settler is coming shortly from Memphis. If we're going to stick this one out, we'll need at least a city toward the NE of the extra warrior (he's the guard) and at the silks way to the north in the jungles for happiness. I think we're looking at eight cities max - doesn't bode well on diety level.

Here's the Americans' city -

 

[Toecheese3]

And here's the game

 

[Charis]

Don't give up on the furs! Don't let Houston push you around!

Flip that puppy!! Settle smack next to the furs, snagging them
and applying great pressure to next-to-Thebes-dumb-wth-is-Abe-thinking city-to-be-flipped-to-us Houston.



*WITH* any pressure with a nook city, Houston is ours. If it's allowed to expand boundaries it can't flip and will be a thorn in our side. Eight cities is PLENTY for now given such an expansionist and aggressive neighbor. There's no way on earth we can hold more (heck, even hold 8?) vs this crew. Batten down the hatches
Charis

EDIT - to answer Toe's question without a new post...
Would I found a city right next to Houston? Absolutely!! That's become a hallmark move for me now. It worked so well in rbd1 when Cy squoze the Persians that I did it twice in one player turn in rbd3 (Deacon's Beacon) and saw results really quick.
-the word 'Settle' above was 'settled' in the original post, so you may have read that as a description rather than a suggestion
If it flips, we win the city with zero hard feelings from Abe, and the citizens are all considered 'ours'. They key reason I think this will work is the proximity to Thebes. Unlike other flipping factors the *ratio* of distances to capitols plays a quantitative role. (So does the number of squares in the 21 city radius not in the cities control. And you can increase that number to about 14 if you found next to the furs. That's like 14 of OUR resistors in THEIR city, and that close to Thebes. Houston is toast. Of course... Abe could still roll over our entire civ including Houston in his sleep

 

[Toecheese3]

Batten down the hatches. I was thinking about locking the women and children up too - this could be a bloodbath later.

Funny too - I was thinking the same thing when I saw we were planted in close proximity to America and Germany. Pretty tough draw to be planted on the same continent with the expansionist Americans and the warlike Germans.

Question Charis - would you plant another city near Houston to crowd them out? I wouldn't...

 

[Pggar]

I'm watching this game with great interest. I'm still a regent/monarch player. So, I hope you don't mind me butting in.
I think you guys did a great job starting the game (with the Americans so close).
On the Houston subject, I agree with Charis. You should put a city close to Houston and try to flip it. If the Americans have a better culture than you, then you'll have a huge problem. I imagine that at deity level, the expansionist civs don't stay behind in culture due to their production bonus.

 

[Sirian]

I agree with Charis, we can still get the furs and that's the main thing. Whether or not Houston flips is another story. Whether or not we want it even if it does is not an automatic "Yes" either.

This is a small map. Ideal # cities = 6, double that for "OK", more goes way into the corruption penalty. Every new city America gets from here on out is hurting their core production. The AI is not sharp enough to plan wise FP sites. We would probably take Houston if it offered to flip, but we really need to stop and think at every move we make, not jump at things on automatic from what we normally would do.

The temple whipping at Helio was a very poor decision. The temple was due in just six turns, so you bought 15 shields for 40 (40!) turns of penalty and 10 culture. But wait! We're also stuck at size 1 for nine more turns, at one shield and one gold lost per turn compared to what we would have had. We may be destined to lose anyway, so it may not matter, but we can't afford big mistakes.

Letting the temple finish, then whipping the barracks for a gain of 34 shields and leaving us size 1 for less time, would have gone much farther much faster toward your goal of improving our military situation. Even if you thought the temple was the wrong priority, you could have switched to a spear then whipped the barracks. If it had even crossed my mind that you MIGHT whip the temple, I would have done anything -- anything -- else besides hand off a half-completed temple.

Any number of strategies, priorities and approaches might work for this game, and things I might do could well be losing moves... I don't mind being vetoed (generally) on things I hand off to the next player. All part of the process. But it took Heliopolis's entire production on my turn to get as far as it did on that temple. Now I don't know where I stand here, because you didn't just change the course of activity there, but vetoed the whole scheme and discarded a whole turn's progress at that city to switch to another plan.

And I'm too wound up about it. :crazyeyes Maybe a deity game isn't the best place for players to try to learn how to integrate as a team. I'm going to sit back now and wait and see how it goes.

I have good things to say about the rest of the turn, but nothing urgent, and I need to grab something to eat and get back to playing RBD5. Good luck to the next leader.

- Sirian

 

[Toecheese3]

I agree you are (were) too wound up about it - but that's beside the fact . It a new day, right?

I agree that in hindsight it might have been a bad idea - but it wasn't because I'm intentionally trying to step on your crank Sirian. I'm not vetoing the plan (was a plan even laid out other than the GL?) and honestly, given your frequent posting on this website you're probably ten times the civ player I am.

Quite simply, I've not watched many succession games and I've only been involved in one other, and suffice it to say, I'm not completely familiar with all the nuances of handing off the turn. I thought the 10 culture was more important and that in the interest of infrasturucture, population would be controlled with worker/settler production (for the 40 turns). I know we don't all think alike, and you might be right. Team meshing will have to be on the fly (tough especially at this level).

We'll deal with it and I'll take the blame if we lose.

 

[Sirian]

Fair enough. It could be irrelevant to the final outcome anyway, as the results would have to be pretty close for even 4% differential (just a guess) to tip the scales.

We're quite vulnerable, and if the AI's start munching on us before we can defend ourselves, it's over. The question is how far we can push our growth curve before we stop to mass troops. It seems to me that more risk is in order, and Arathorn's first turn pretty much agreed. We had no troops at all in our cities when I inherited my turn: he built several warriors and sent them scrambling out to grab as many goody huts as he could, and try to make contact soon enough to broker some deals. That was very effective, a total push toward "if we can't get some edge going, it won't matter anyway".

If we stop our own expansion too late, we'll lose to an attack. But if we stop too soon, we'll lose anyway, as we won't have the production power to survive. Previous patches, the penalties for whipping were low and you could whip a town several times, then see all the penalties fade away by the time governments changed. No more. Now the penalties last and last, so you can not whip as much, or else you cripple the city and undo the gains made from the whipping anyway.


Who's up next? Jaffa?


- Sirian

 

[Arathorn]

Yes, Jaffa is next up. His 10 turns should see:

- Completion of Literature (in 2 turns, by my count)
- Completion of the Great Library (400 shields, just like the Lighthouse)
- A massive influx of technology
- Probable zero research from us

I've not actually opened up the save game, but I would think some priorities would be:

- Obviously, the above....
- A temple in Thebes to help with happiness
- A military presence (should be able to build some better units after tech cascade) [I would recommend war chariots, for a few reasons. One, I think/hope we have horses -- we have a lot of horse-type lands at least. I'm doubtful about iron. Two, a UU rates pretty highly in the AIs determination to attack program (I think). Three, a GA during a war might be just enough to keep us from being overrun. Four, they upgrade to knights, which is where we'll be going for sure. Five, they're cheap enough to crank out a lot of them for the infamous AI "unit count" algorithm.]
- Another luxury (or two) online
- this could be Charis' idea with the furs (although we're almost assuredly behind in culture and would struggle in the culture border wars)
- I seem to recall some dyes or silks up northeast of Heliopolis, which might work as well or better. I might even make this a priority, to seal off our little peninsula over there (too late?) for another, lower priority city.
- Colussus decision in Thebes. It might be weed to go after it, but getting it could be a big boost once we have to start doing our own research....<Shrug>

Some other thoughts....

I'm a bit disappointed no one else bought a worker. Were they not available? Not checked for? Pop points are important and we have so few. Workers are cheap for ~27 gold.... And honestly, what else are we going to be spending our gold on right now?

Ten turns is short, especially in the ancient age. The idea is to play slowly and not make mistakes (like whipping the temple was. But I don't want to whip you over it. I certainly don't think it's fatal, in and of itself).

That was very effective, a total push toward "if we can't get some edge going, it won't matter anyway".

Absolutely my thoughts. I think we do have a bit of an edge right now, though, with the Great Library to be ours. That's huge. But, once the available land is consumed, if not earlier, we will be attacked. Hopefully, it will be ONE of America/Germany. If so, I highly recommend selling our first-born for an alliance with the other. With help, we can hold our own soon, I hope. We're getting close to that change-over from rabid expansionism to defense/infrastructure (timing might be important). Six or so cities run by a human on a small map should be able to compete against a dozen or so AI cities, even on deity.

You are worried about Germany and America as neighbors? If we had Xerxes and Shaka, I doubt we would have lasted my turn, let alone be in this position. I'm quite serious.

I'm with Sirian, though, that this is a nerve-wracking business. And, Toecheese, we *ALL* have things to learn. I just try to learn them and go on.

I definitely think we're still in a position to win this thing, though. For 60 turns in, we're not doing quite well, in my opinion.

No barbarian hordes yet? Excellent. Whenever I've played ravaging myself on deity, I've always been thumped at least once by a stack of 25 horsemen (btw, leaving that city defenseless (whipping if pop>1 and you have time) and "loaning gold" (giving 58 gold for 3 gpt) is a good tactic if such arises).

Arathorn

P.S. Jaffa, awaiting your "I got it."

 

[Sirian]

Some points:

Lighthouse was reduced to 300 shields, so we are farther from the GL than you are estimating. I still think we have a good shot at the Lighthouse, too, though. The AI is infamous for trying to build it in crappy little towns.

Definitely want the chariots! I thought that was the main reason you picked Egypt? They are probably one of the best civs for surviving a grueling ancient age. Horsies @ 20 shields per, in effect, save that they can't cross swamp/mountains.

Charis knows well by now all about border aggressions. I showed the whole crew how to bully an AI colony back in RBD1. City flips have many factors involved, the main two of which are foreign nationals and border pressure. However, between cities close to one another competing for control of territory, it's all about the individual culture levels of those particular cities. Charis KNOWS he can secure the fur for us by making sure we have temple/library sooner than the AI will build them. That would also put enormous pressure on the enemy city and flip it to us sooner or later.

There are "rings" of control around each city, based on the Influence numbers listed under F5. A tile that would fall in the first ring can only be taken away by an enemy city if it's also in the first enemy ring. This would be the case at the furs. However, if our city was farther away, and the fur would come in our second ring, but their first, then control of it would never come over to us. You follow that? If you ever want to pressure enemy cities to make them flip, you have to found close enough to them to force second-ring overlap, then win the city-to-city cultural competition. For more pressure, first-ring overlap, but that also means founding practically right on top of them. See the easy/early flips of Syracuse and New Bombay in RBD3 for how this works.

For control of resources on Emperor+ I have no hesitation about running right up to the enemy with aggressive settlements. It's basically making a "disposable half-city" but resources are worth a ton and this is the best way when you can't afford war. In real life, it would probably provoke a war, but this is only a game. The larger the map, the less painful it is to make such a move, but even on a small map it may be worth it. Tiny... you have to choose every city wisely on a tiny map. Not sure I'd do it there, probably better just to conquer the enemy city.

And you're right about Shaka. He's coming, if you draw him as a neighbor. Xerxes not quite as much. He waits until he has an immortal army, and occasionally that takes him a while. He's also neither militaristic nor maximally aggressive. What makes him so darn dangerous is that he is the most likly civ of them all to build the Pyramids, and once you put those in his hands, he's going to outproduce all the other AI's, unless his land just plain sucks. Bismarck, actually, is a worse threat. He starts with both spear and archer, is militaristic, loves to build offensive units like Shaka (not QUITE as much, but close) and is also set to max aggression. Look what happened to poor Betty! The other one you don't want near you is Monty.


- Sirian

 

[Jaffa Tamarin]

Will play tonight...

 

[Arathorn]

Shoot! You're right about the cheaper lighthouse. Mea culpa. I get these numbers in my head and they just stay there. An extra 100 shields in Thebes should be ~11 turns, right? Either Charis or I get to complete it, then.

And, yes, part of the reason I picked Egypt was for war chariots. I was expecting a much earlier war, as that's how I've caught up on techs before. But with such a lush land around us, I changed tacts almost before I'd begun....

A tile that would fall in the first ring can only be taken away by an enemy city if it's also in the first enemy ring.

Are you sure of that? I'm 95% certain I've seen otherwise. That is, I've seen a second ring take control of another city's first ring. If I were at home and could check save files, I think I could even find such an example in a save file for your perusal. But since I can't verify, I can't be certain.

I also read a few times on the Apolyton strategy forum that total civ culture has an influence on cultural borders. Again, I seem to recall gaining extra space without a cultural growth (but, as you say, the bigger influence number might have switched).

I agree that getting the furs is worth a city and a rushed temple, if we can do it. If we try and fail, though.... It'll be a very hurtful move. I trust you, and, of course, it's not my decision to make!

Arathorn

P.S. I'm gonna try to keep the first post updated with who's playing and who's on deck. No promises (especially on weekends), but I'm gonna try.

 

[Chieftess]

Originally posted by Sirian
The temple whipping at Helio was a very poor decision. The temple was due in just six turns, so you bought 15 shields for 40 (40!) turns of penalty and 10 culture. But wait! We're also stuck at size 1 for nine more turns, at one shield and one gold lost per turn compared to what we would have had. We may be destined to lose anyway, so it may not matter, but we can't afford big mistakes.

Letting the temple finish, then whipping the barracks for a gain of 34 shields and leaving us size 1 for less time, would have gone much farther much faster toward your goal of improving our military situation. Even if you thought the temple was the wrong priority, you could have switched to a spear then whipped the barracks. If it had even crossed my mind that you MIGHT whip the temple, I would have done anything -- anything -- else besides hand off a half-completed temple.

I'm also watching this game, and this is one (er, 2) thing(s) that I have problems with (understanding how they work). Whipping (poprushing - I still don't quite get the pre-1.17f pop rush, and the 1.17f loophole ), and micromanagement. (Had I joined, we would've lost by now...) I can play fine on Cheiftain and Warlord, and possibly Regeant. I tried my my hand at that Monarch GOTM and got summarialy whipped in a 500 year defensive battle. (up to 70 AD).

So, does whipping have different effects in different difficulties? (I just tried it in Cheiftain mode, and my culture still stayed the same - it didn't even go down 10 turns. And what does "40 turns of penalty" mean? Unhappiness/content"ness" for 40 turns? And why one gold? Becuase you lost that extra square of commerce? (BTW, when I build my road systems, it seems like it takes 2-4 commerce to equal +1 gold)... I really need a micromanaging and whipping FAQ. I just don't see how whipping a temple is a big mistake... Maybe I'm destined to be stuck on Cheiftain. :crazyeyes (10 years so far...)

 

[Toecheese3]

- Disregard -

 

[Jaffa Tamarin]

Ten more turns in which we didn't get attacked! Yay!

0) 1550BC I decided our military was a bit thin. ("Thin? We'd crumple if Bismarck sneezed in this direction!"). Switched Heliopolis over to building a barracks. Some spearmen would be nice, sometime in the next millenium.

1) 1525BC New worker from Elephantine sent to irrigate the grassland-wheat tiles. (".. mutter .. mutter .. pungent weed .. mutter ..")

2) 1500BC Egypt hears about a 'Great Wall' constructed by the Germans in Berlin. ("A wall? What's so great about a wall?" "I've heard it's really thick. And long." "Well, yes .. umm .. hang on .. weren't we talking about a wall?")

4) 1450BC Pharaoh's pet architect draws up yet another new set of plans for the project under construction in Thebes. ("I heard it's going to be a library." "A library? Thousands of years we've worked on this, and all we get is some stupid library? No doubt they'll call it a 'Great Library' or something equally trite, and expect us all to be impressed. Bah!")

7) 1375BC Alexandria founded next to Houston's furs. Borders remain unmoved. ("Hah. That was pointless! I'm never voting for this Pharaoh again!" "Vote? You got to vote?")

Alexandria set to build a warrior (after which it will have grown, and can whip a temple).

10) 1300BC Americans have founded Buffalo on the little peninsula south of Memphis. Isn't that an illegal site according to Sirian's rules of AI settlement?

 

[Sirian]

So, does whipping have different effects in different difficulties? (I just tried it in Cheiftain mode, and my culture still stayed the same - it didn't even go down 10 turns. And what does "40 turns of penalty" mean? Unhappiness/content"ness" for 40 turns? And why one gold? Becuase you lost that extra square of commerce? (BTW, when I build my road systems, it seems like it takes 2-4 commerce to equal +1 gold)... I really need a micromanaging and whipping FAQ. I just don't see how whipping a temple is a big mistake...

Whipping is the same on every difficulty. On Chieftain, the AI's take LONGER to build the same things you do. Like... takes you 120 shields for a collesseum, for them it takes even more. On Regent, it's fair, they play under same rules as you. Above that, they build in shorter time, and on Deity, they build almost twice as fast as the player. They need only 72 shields to build a collesseum on deity while you still need 120.

The penalty for whipping is one added unhappiness factor to your city total, and it lasts for 40 turns. Ah, but if you whip twice, that's two unhappiness and both last 80 turns. Thus, if whip again before the previous penalties expire, the penalty is magnified. Used to be that you could whip one city three or four times early in the game and the penalties would fade away by the time you change governments or grow large enough for it to matter. No more, the new penalties are harsher, allowing for fewer whippings, or else crippled cities.

Yes, one gold because the extra square of commerce was lost. In a city right next to our capital, corruption is low and almost every commerce becomes a gold or a science beaker. We lost a shield per turn for the same reason.

Whipping a temple is not necessarily a mistake, in fact, at times, it's absolutely the best thing to do. But how much "real value" is gained from a whipping, vs how much it costs in lost production from lower population and from the penalty, is the question to be asked in determining "Is it worth doing". The closer a city is to your capital, the less likely that a whipping will be worthwhile. Distant cities with no hope of more than one shield progress per turn are the best sites for forced labor, as they'll take forever to get anything done otherwise. By contrast, any city that can produce three shields per turn, or more, all on its own, is not a good candidate for the whip. Maybe once, but not on a project due to finish on its own in just a few turns.

In this case, the temple had 12 shields built up already, and was due in 6 turns at 3 shields per turn. So he bought 15 shields and a temple five turns sooner, for a penalty and what will quickly become more lost production than he saved. The problem is that he didn't get enough out of the whipping, and with only so many whippings possible at each city in this current patch, before the city would be rendered useless, that's something else we can't whip there. So looking at the whole picture, he bought us 15 shields and five rounds of culture at 2 per turn (ten total). If he then starts on barracks, he's due to finish it after about 15 turns, meaning that it takes 17 total turns to get temple and barracks. If he had waited the five turns, he could instead have let the temple finish building, then whipped the barracks. He would then have a temple and a barracks after 8 turns. Do you see the difference there? Impatience with the whip slowed us down by at least seven turns.

Now even that MIGHT have been worth it, if an attack was imminent, and the priority he changed us to of immediate use. Turns out it wasn't, and so that city's whole growth curve has been slowed. These are the sorts of details you have to pay attention to, and stop to think about, in plotting strategy for the highest difficulty levels. To a lesser degree, it is also what you need to beat the game in general, just that the more efficient you are with the growth curve, and the more successful with managing risk taking to seize advantages, the higher level you can play at. It takes energy to invest, takes practice and some dedication, like any activity, in order to excel. I'm sure you could do it if you set your mind to it, but it is just a game and there to enjoy. The reason they have varied difficulty levels is so that each player can find the challenge levels that entertain them. Right?

Thanks for stopping in. I'll be watching your jungle game from time to time to see how it's going.


- Sirian

 

[Sirian]

Jaffa: yep, that spot is one I have pegged as illegal for them, at least with a player's city. I've seen them do that with their own cities on occasion, but not with a player city. I wonder if that's something changed in the latest patch? Or perhaps there is some variable, like a resource to appear there? If there are horses out there, that might explain it.

Well, in this instance, it's just another city of theirs to flip to us, so heh, probably a good thing. We need to get some temples going SOON, though, or we'll fall behind on culture. Even if we have to whip (just not mid-production).

- Sirian

 

[Charis]

We're not dead yet!! yay!

The borders are not unexpected. When you whip that temple in
Alexandria (the turn following when we get the warrior, to be precise) the furs WILL move into our border unless Houston gets their temple in first. Likewise, the very best thing we could do at Memphis is get a temple asap. To get the whale Buffalo just might get smart and build a temple sooner rather than later.
After the settler is out I imagine. Is that eastern warrior of
our extra enough that we could plant him on the mountain
or silks and deny access to that penninsula?

I think the next city we settle with that settler in production will be our last for sometime. If we don't nail closed the shutters we're gonna get just run over. The Great Lib will help us make it through this rough time if we're not immediately attacked.

Charis

Hey!! Can I nominate myself for an early weed award. Here I am making comments for the next leader, and I check order and see it's.... me! If you guys could, PLEASE start/continue pasting roster at the very end with who is up and who on deck?! Thanks!

 

[Charis]

Looking over our little map, we need to claim land, and claim it
now. This may override the temple needs, unfortunately, we'll see.
Lookin' forward to Great Library coming in.

1300 BC (0) - Too bad Elephantine doesn't have more shields, and loses one
to corruption so quick! It has good food but will take forever to build
a settler 8-\ Worker there is a good plan. In this reign I plan to seal
off that penninsula and try to get an extra settler out, we'll see.
With no one working on the Great Library I'm going to cut 3-4 turns off
the settler at Memphis by loaning him one shield.

1275 BC (1) - Americans start the library. Too late Abe!!
Warrior in the east heads for the mountains. American settler and escort
above Helio...

1225 BC (3) - The AI gets smart????!!!! Houston has expanded borders, meaning
it finished a temple 10 turns ago, meaning it started it upon founding!
Wow! We'll need temple AND library there to beat it, and only if he delays
library.

1200 BC (4) - Our warrior wins the footrace to the mountains, sealing off
the penninsula. (That is, unless they settle right ON the spice).

Americans settle Detroit, once again almost on top of us, 4 squares due
NE of Helio. The English start Great Library.

1150 BC (6) - Here comes another settler pair, sheesh. We casually step in
the way, slowing him down a turn (or more if we can), hoping we can hurry
up and get that settler to beat him to the only spot left near Thebes!

1125 BC (7) - Yeehaw! Timing was correct on Memphis!! City last turn showed
growing in 1 turn, settler built in 2. But I denied that city the Northern
wheat and knew (hoped?) it would thus get the ONE more shield it needed to
finish the settler right that very turn. That one shield gives us a one
turn shave and takes the heat off that American settler. Then again, our
warrior is doing a nice job doing the "Baltimore" block

1100 BC (8) - Pi-Ramesses is founded, two squares from Detroit. A definite
culture press cat-n-mouse game about to form. Speaking of culture, Alexandria
whips its temple and may do similar for library soon. (Hrmm... 80 shields?
That's a double whip done correctly? Ouch)

1075 BC (9) - A cautious Abe 'requests' a contribution to world peace,
our territory map and 31 gold !!?? :grr:

Do we cave in to this extortion!!??? Darn tootin' we do!! A mere pinky
flex of American might would send us into the blackness of night. And yet,
Abe, we'll remember this. My friend, you have chosen unwisely!!!!
(Did I mention he had a warrior not far from a worker and an undefended
city at the time?!) We trade world maps around. Did he know he could have
asked for double? Or will he be back soon?

1050 BC (10) - English are building Colossus. Elephantine whips it temple.

1025 BC (11) - That American warrior fends a barbarian off our workers??!
Abe!! I didn't know you cared! Gentlemen, may I present to you, in Thebes...

THE GREAT LIBRARY! (Good job)

Colossus would only be 20 turns for us! I started the temple, taking 3,
but consider if we want to swap. (Hmm Enlgish start or cascade to Colossus,
and also start Great Lighthouse)

1000 BC (12) - Americans are building Hanging Gardens. Gentlemen, may I present...

The Wheel. Iron Working. Mysticism. Mathematics. Philosophy. Code of Laws.
Horseback Riding. Polytheism. Currency. Republic. Construction.
Monotheism (our free 'Sci' tech) That's 12 techs in one mid-turn.

(Note, there are horses RIGHT next to Thebes, and Iron right UNDER Helio)
(Wow, Helio is going to be a powerhouse city.)

Gentlemen. We're now a republic. We're in the middle ages.
The game's afoot!!

The people of Thebes will get over the rough but quick shock by
next turn. Anything else to note? A Barb camp below our mountain man.
If a settler appears to the North, step *ON* to the silk, don't let them
settle there, it's too nice a "canal" city. If OTOH you can get a settler
up there... There's a minor warrior shuffle midprogress down South to
get a defender to Pi-Ram. Thebes has one defender, get him a spear or
sword soon. The two warriors to the right are 'mobile blockade', able
to cut off either North-South or east-west passage. Get one more warrior
and they won't have to shift.

We're running 0% sci, 20% lux, gaining 12 gold per turn. 13 units support.
Take a look at the new diplo and tech and brokering situation. It's too
much of a jump to middle ages to even fathom!?

Good luck!
Charis

PS Pardon going over by two turns, didn't want to hand off leaping into
anarchy or fumble the transition.