LotR 2 - Zealous Zulus (Monarch variant)

Roman Front: Restless
Russian Front: Hot
Greek Front: Critical Mass (SoD in position, theirs not ours)
Iro-China Front: Calm
Coastal Front: Hot (I said Hot)

Research: currently idle, waiting on AI's to beat the path ahead of us.


Cliche: A picture's worth a thousand words.

lotr2-cav.jpg


Warning: some of our inner cities are undefended or underdefended, as our military rail net has seen troops continually transported to hot spots as needed.

Ironworks could be rushed in New Z-town with next leader.


Zealous Zulus - "The Tide Has Turned"


- Sirian
 
Looks like we're not out of the woods yet. A quick perusal of the game shows great progress on the rails, lots of infrastructure building, and the beginnings of the Zulu navy (which we desperately need). Wow, there are alot of ships of our coast, last time I played I think only about 2 ships showed up the whole time.

The Russians and Greeks are attacking big time. We seem to be perhaps a mite short of cavalry (15) and cannon (18) considering that one Greek stack has 10 rifles and 2 longbows, and another Russian stack has 6 rifles. Those 2 stacks alone outnumber our cavalry.

Good news is we're caught up on tech, have a map of the entire world (thanks Sirian!), and are generating 569 gpt. Since we can't do any more trades in the entire game (no more undiscovered civs), we can spend our gold rushing things.
 
cpp: I hope you're not thinking of attacking that Greek SoD across the river. We have plenty of cavalry, and the AI is now set to use rifles offensively, so let THEM attack US across the river. If they move to pillage, then sic em, but don't be sure they aren't there to try to take cities.

We can't afford to let them pillage willy-nilly, but in fact not one tile was pillaged on my turn, and I didn't have those cavalry until the end. We still have to be conservative with our forces, and your post SOUNDS to me like you may be of the mindset of letting the AI's bait you into fights that are not on our terms. That should rarely, if ever, be necessary any more.


- Sirian
 
Sirian, that's it for a write-up? Sure, a picture is worth 1000 words, but 1000 words AND a picture is even more valuable? :) I plead for some report on who you got techs from, gold situation, interesting wonders/buildings rushed, # of GLs, navies, etc. Certainly not a requirement, but I'd like a bit more....

On the posting "Got it"... when you were playing and posting within 24 hours, it wasn't a problem, because there was no overrun of commitments. Now that you're doing the training game time vacuum and not playing Civ3 23/7 anymore, the "I got it" posts will probably become a necessary evil.

On the post snafu, one of the reasons I was so upset was because I knew I was holding up the game and going over my limit. Had Jester gone from cpp1's save, I would've pouted quietly (err... loudly) and gone on with my life. I have a fair chunk of patience, though, for people who say "I'll be two days but then I can play" and then play in two days. For me, speed isn't as important as keeping others up-to-date.

Hopefully, this will recapture your interest in a few days.

cpp1, be CAREFUL out there. Watch the terrain. USE those cannons big-time. The move-3 cavalry will become a royal PITA, I imagine, but those Greek/Russian SoDs should feel the brunt of our ranged weapons twice -- once when they move into range and then again when they attack us. That's not to say they should never feel our cavalry in their side, just that timing is everything.

And watch science. As soon as some civs discover something and the research time goes down, we need to go after that tech hard. The 400+ gpt is nice, but we can't count on it continuing. We need to keep up in tech -- or at least not fall too far behind.

Arathorn

Oh, and I'm up next, pending news from Toecheese....
 
Steam was researched at the pace I inherited. Nationalism was researched in four turns. World map was bought on contact with Egypt for ~520g, Mil Trad for ~220g, then I declared on her.

New Hlobane was a reach I inherited. Not sure who settled it or when but it was destined for the scrap heap. I knew it was toast and should have just abandoned it, but I tried anyway. We lost two elite knights and only killed two longbows, but got the only leader on my turn. I made him an army and pulled out with the elite musket, leaving the city to burn. I did barely get that army out of there, it's sitting around in Ulundi, pending anybody wanting to do anything with it, offensively or defensively.

Our ships explored my whole turn and uncovered much of the English coast before I decided to go in and contact Cleo. Our military rail net was almost painful to build, but the worst is over in that regard. Just need to connect the south (carefully).

Greece was gathering its SOD my whole turn, and their target shifted several times. Finally they moved into attack position and have already wasted two rifles attacking across that river. I beat the tar out of anything Russia or Rome sent in, but I did lose about five knights total in doing so (including two at New Hlobane). At least the ones dying near Rome were taking out more than their share of cavs as they bit it.

England landed a stack of six obsoletes on the same turn as Aztecs landed three knights. That happened to be the turn AFTER I contacted Cleo and upgraded every last remaining knight we had to cav (cept the army, can't touch those still :( ). So ALL of our cavs saw action that round, and very few promoted. I lost one cav in there somewhere. Many more ships are coming.

Viro flipped to us again, but this time the Aztecs landed and took it over. On the up side, I did starve it by one size, and one Aztex knight died vs our regular free impi there, before the other took the city. Aztecs have lots of culture, but that site is MUCH closer to our capital, so it may yet flip again to us.

I set our coastal towns all to build ironclads, to deal with some of the armada of English and Aztec ships, but none are built yet.

China and Iroquois are pathetic and pose little threat. Rome is not very large. England and Aztecs are coming too late. We got rails in before they could land a mini-Sod at some underprotected coastal city, so the only real danger we face now is too much gangbang taking place on the same turn. Should be manageable.


- Sirian


PS: Oh One More Thing (TM)... I spent almost my whole turn building infrastructure. (Surprise surprise!) Our military became stronger by way of massive upgrades and few losses. What losses we did sustain, I replaced, but most cities were building infra. We have a couple new uni, several courthouses even in cities that had little waste, some libraries, markets, a bank. I did skip colleseums, even though their culture might help, figuring those could wait until after factories AND hospitals, so let em wait.

I should have rushed the cathedral at Isand but never did. Too tightwad. :)

What we have now, is a lot of cities with maxed or near maxed infra, with production growing thanks to rails, and our military training rates much improved. (Courthouses helps that some, too). At end of my turn, almost all our core cities are now producing either cav or ironclad. The AI's continue their relentlessness, but judicious use of cannon, cav, rifle to block or defend, and rails to concentrate forces, SHOULD have the situation well in hand, at least to a point of losing no ground.

See? Told ya it was Just One More Thing (TM). :lol:
 
Executive Summary:

Lost Hispalis after my first turn, Viroconium flipped to us near the end of my 10 turns. Viro and Cumae are pretty well defended now and we can reinforce in 1 turn from Umfolozi. Got 6 great leaders, used for Iron Works, Military Academy, 3 universities, and a bank. All cities are on the rail net except Isand, Cumae, and Viro. Rail work is progressing pretty well. We have an ironclad navy patrolling the coast. I figure its better to sink them in their ships than let them land. We got Communism and are awaiting the next AI advance. We lost 10 units, they lost 78 total but that doesn’t include any that may have sunk on ships.

1450AD Preturn: Goals:

build up military
extend rail net to southern cities
build Zulu navy to protect the coast
watch AI research to jump on anything they get
get Hispalis connected
capture Caughnawaga if possible to get Isand connected

Casualties:
Zulu (us) 10
Iroquois 3
Russian 23
Greek 34
England 5
Rome 4
Aztec 3
Egypt 3
China 3

State of the world:
Zulus (us) = even tech, 27 cities, Monarchy, even military
Russia = even tech, 18 cities, Monarchy, weak military
Iroquois = -Steam Power -Nationalism, 13 cities, Republic, weak military
China = -Steam Power -Nationalism, 9 cities, Republic, weak military
Rome = even tech, 11 cities, Monarchy, weak military
Greece = even tech, 18 cities, Monarchy, weak military
England = even tech, 24 cities, Democracy, weak military
Aztecs = -Steam Power, 34 cities, Monarchy, strong military
Egypt = ?, 14 cities, Democracy, weak military

Summary of changes since my last turn (1300AD):
Russia = we've caught up on tech
Iroquois = lost 1 city, we've passed them on tech, and are in Republic
China = lost 2 cities, we've passed them in tech, still in Republic
Rome = lost 4 cities, we've caught up in tech, moved from Republic to Monarchy
Greece = gained 1 city, we've caught up in tech

Russia and Greece are the ones to watch out for, as confirmed by Sirian's history, and looking at troops on the ground. Viroconium used to be a Roman city on the coast but now the Aztecs have it. Did it flip to us and then the Aztecs took it, or are the Aztecs at war with the Romans also?

I decide to start moving some unused cannon from the south up north.
Also killed a lone Iro longbow in the south, promoted vet cav to elite in the battle. Micromanage Zombabwe and Ulundi to 20 shields/turn (cav are 80 shields).

1450-1455AD Lots of ships move, lots of troops move but nobody attacks us. Ulundi builds a cav, starts another cav. Yakutsk builds a courthouse, starts on marketplace.

1455AD I decide to rush 2 ironclads in Umtata and Swazi. Mpondo will finish on its own next turn also. That will give us 3 next turn to fight off the Russian, Greek, Aztec, and English ships off the coast. Also I hurry Hlobane's cav to get it back on track for 5 turns per cav instead of wasting 14 shields on the last turn. We fight some minor battles and kill 4 enemy units without losing any ourselves. I make a big push for rails in the south to get our 4 cities down there on the rail net. AI's did not research anything new this turn. Greek SOD (9 rifles, 2 longbows) heads north to New Zimbabwe.

1455-1460AD Romans take Hispalis with 2 rifles and 2 cav on the attack versus 1 rifle and 1 knight. They lost 2 rifles but it was still a bad defeat for us. It's very hard to defend cities that aren't connected by road to the other cities. I had a rifle on the way from Yakutsk but he did not make it in time.

1460AD Workers put rails into 3 southern cities, only one left, should be done next turn. Navy goes out and sinks an English galley. Another ironclad sinks a Greek frigate and goes elite. Last ironclad sinks a Russian frigate and goes elite. Greek SOD moves next to Bapedi. I gather 15 cannons there and shoot at them, wounding every one. I also move 7 rifles in because Bapedi was empty. New Zimbabwe is also threatened by 6 rifles, but its on a hill and size 7 so its less of a concern.

1460-1465AD Greeks attack Bapedi and lose rifle and longbow. Romans attack Cumae and their 1 hp cav retreats. Romans land cav near Swazi. English land 2 pike, sword, and archer near Tugela.

1465AD We destroy the Rome and English landing. Decide to change the library in Cumae for a cav. The Romans are getting restless and the library doesn't do any good if the city is gone.

1465-1470AD No attacks or landings. Russians move 6 rifles and 1 knight into the open. The Greeks move 1 rifle and 1 longbow into the open.

1470AD All those stacks are killed although I lose 2 cav and almost run out of fresh cav in the process. Sink 3 more enemy ships this turn.

1470-1475AD Lots of troops moving out into the open. Romans attack Intombe with 2 cav, they retreat. Russians and Greeks each move 4 troops out into the open.

1475AD Sink a Russian ship. All AI's now have communism so I turn research on to get it in 4 turns with 64gpt. It's an optional tech and we're not going to switch to communism, but it does give the police station which helps with corruption. Lost my first ironclad attacking a wounded caravel. Sometimes it happens. Killed a Russian rifle and Greek rifle that were on grassland after softening up with cannon. Cannon on rails are great! Also take potshots at a few more stacks.

1475-1480AD Disease strikes Yakutsk. Romans attack Cumae with 2 cav and kill both rifles there. Our lone cav holds the city now. Luckily I brought a caravel to Umfolozi just to be able to transport troops to Cumae. Greeks move troops next to New Bapedi, 4 rifles, 3 longbows, a knight, and a stack of 8 rifles that are 2 tiles away. Russians also move 3 rifles and a Cossack near Isipezi. Greeks and Egyptians each move up a Frigate/Transport combo near our coast.

1480AD Defeated 3 Greek longbows and Greek knight near New Bapedi. After bombarding a group of 3 Russian rifles near Isipezi and attacking with cav we get our first Great Leader, Mpande! He is rushed to New Zimbabwe to build the Iron Works there. In the SAME group of 3 Russian rifles the last attack gets another great leader, Zwelithini! I decide to rush the Military Academy in Ulundi. Its only 1 culture but its better than nothing.

Sunk 2 Greek ships and an Egyptian ship, but lost an ironclad to an Aztec frigate.

1480-1485AD Romans attack Cumae again but lose a cav. Cumae is now guarded by 3 rifles and a cav. We complete the Military Academy and Iron Works.

1485AD We sink an Aztec caravel. Our ironclads are keeping busy. Also defeated a stack of 4 Greek rifles, 1 Iro longbow.

1485-1490AD Viroconium has revolted over to our side. Intombe was attacked again. A stack of 7 Greek rifles is heading between New Bapedi and Anyang for Ngome, good target for cannon this turn.

1490AD Sunk a Roman galley with ironclad. Lost an elite ironclad to a Egyptian caravel! I rush walls at Viro and send the cav at Cumae over (the only unit that can make it in 1 turn). Also upgrade our caravel to a galleon so it can make the trip from Umfolozi to Viro in 1 turn. Killing a Russian rifle produced our 3 GL, Dingane. I go for a University in Swazi. On the next attack on a Russian musket near Yakutsk, another GL Cetshwayo is found (GL number 4). He’s going to found another University at Tugela. A battery of 15 cannon is formed on a hill near New Bapedi to bombard a stack of 7 Greek rifles. They fire and get 8 hits out of 15 shots. No need to attack yet, they’re deep inside my territory with no where to go.

1490-1495AD Russians pillage saltpetre near Anyang, we have 3 more sources. A lot of ship and troop movement, but no attacks. We build 3 universities, a bank, and lots of smaller infrastructure this turn. No attacks on Viro. It builds walls and I can reinforce this turn! We learn Communism and the AI’s don’t have anything new, so we’re back to accumulating gold.

1495AD I shell the stack of 7 Greek rifles again and then attack with cav. During cav attacks I get GL number 5, Mpande! I rush a bank in Zenguin. In defeating the Cossack that pillage the saltpetre, I get GL 6, Zwelithini! I rush the university at Isipezi. Another small stack of 2 Greek rifles were also destroyed, making the total 9 Greek rifles this turn. I lost 1 elite cav during these attacks. Then I get cute a lose a cav to a Roman rifle near New Ulundi. Our Galleon takes 2 more rifles to Viro so it has 3 rifles and walls now.

1495-1500AD Russians attack Yakutsk and lose a Cossack. Russians move a stack of 5 rifles blocking the rail at New Zimbabwe. Greeks move a stack of 8 rifles into grassland next to New Bapedi. There are 5 ships right next to Viro, 2 Aztec, 2 Greek, 1 Egyptian. We have what I think is our first pollution 2 tiles south of Isipezi.

1500AD Sank a Aztec frigate. Also sank an Egyptian frigate and galley. Killed the stack of 5 Russian rifles after bombardment by 15 cannon, but lost a vet cav doing it. I put 12 workers on the pollution to clean it up in 1 turn because its on the path the enemy usually takes. Bombarded the stack of 8 Greek rifles but did not attack. I blocked their access to mountains and hills so next leader can bombard some more an then maybe attack.

Notes:

Empty army in Zimbabwe, I did not fill it because you lose some flexibility.

There is a lot of naval activity off our coast, keep an eye on it.

Many interior cities have no garrison, so be careful.

I’ve been building more cannon since I find them to be the most useful unit. With rails, they are usually all used every turn.

AIs have not researched anything new since Communism, but it has to be checked every turn.

Coast: hot zone, many ships on their way over.
Rome: cool, not many attacks but watch for cavalry hiding under rifles.
Russia: very hot but seems to be cooling off now.
Greece: burning, where do these guys get all the rifles?
Iroquois: cold, these guys are a joke, 1 longbow every 3 turns or so.
China: cool, also 1 unit every 3 turns or so, but at least they’re riders.

Here the save file and the screen shot.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/lotr2-1500ad.zip

lotr2-1500ad.jpg
 
I'm mid-conference, so don't be surprised if I take most of the allotted 72 hours. I like to keep things moving, but I'm gone at least 12 hours a day at this point, and that leaves precious little time for important things like Civ3, let alone sleep and time with my wife.

Arathorn
 
Smegged - what does PROD mean? FYI - I started LOTR2 before RDB23a and coincidentally, have not played a SG since I asked to be skipped on both. I naturally went to the one that I was involved in FIRST and played, which it just so happened my turn was up. I intend to do the 1.17f patch swap just to finish RBD23a...

Need I say more?

************************

Anyhow, moving on...

Short-term goals are to build up a navy and head off some of our troubles before they arrive and to bolster the homeland defense if possible. Don’t want to spend down the treasury if possible. Nice quantity of cannons we have also.

1500AD Preturn – Amazing what happens when you don’t even look at the game for a couple of weeks and come back to see the progress. Still – it’s like putting on an old pair of shoes. Greek riflemen galore, where are they coming from? Five Cossacks move into position – Swazi finishes ironclad – Khambula marketplace.

1505AD – Rushed marketplace in Umfolozi – next turn will start on more ironclads. Greek “pairs” appeared last turn and we don’t have enough boats in the area to take them all on. Lost an ironclad to a Greek frigate. Did manage to sink the caravel with another, however. Sent an Aztec galleon down to Davey Jones (err, Shaka Jones) locker with another ironclad. Took out all the Greek rifles near New Bapedi (12 total) and lost only one cavalry. Cannons sure are nice to have! Picked off a stray Roman longbow and got a great leader! Send him to Umfolozi to rush a Bank next turn – as I can tell, seems like the most logical spot with all of our commerce arrows there. No one has discovered anything yet, so taxes are at maximum.

1505-1510AD – Greeks sunk another ironclad, and we lost a rifleman from Roman cavalry – not too bad. Cossacks moving in, but will be short work.

1510AD – Pulled most of the injured ironclads into port for repair. Sunk that pesky Greek frigate before doing so. Pollution near New Zimbabwe (?) Whatever…our cannons give nearly everyone in our territory the business. Knight army takes out two Greek rifles. Leader rushes the bank in Umfolozi. Cleaned up 4 Cossacks. Iroquois spearman and settler move into territory – score two more workers for the good guys. Lost an elite Cavalry against a Greek rifleman. Someone must know Medicine – adjusted science rate accordingly – Medicine in 4.

1515AD – Not too many enemies around (yet). Softened up remaining with cannons – took out 2 Cossacks (another great leader!) Roman rifles, some Greek rifles. Sent the leader to Ulundi for the moment. Didn’t lose anyone – our armies seem to be getting bigger (quantity wise). We’re adding about four military units every turn. Medicine in 3.

1520AD – Finished another cannon, ironclad, and cavalry. Not too many enemies on the horizon right now. I really would like to go after China but not just yet. I think we could wipe them out and be done with them for good. Maybe later. Sank an Aztec galley off the coast. Rushed Cathedral in Xinjian with the leader. Cut back a bit on the cannon production and opt instead for some extra cavalry. Medicine in 2.

1525AD – Took out some Greek cavalry that strayed too close. Big naval battle off the coast of Viroconium. We sank a total of four ships and lost one. Moving some cavalry into range of Canton. Medicine in 1.

1530AD – We discover Medicine – seems everything is available research wise, so I decide on Industrialization. Softened up the troops moving in. Still nothing significant. Canton was captured!! (and razed) Score two more workers. I don’t want to stretch the border out too much right now – I think Wanton (sic) destruction is better suited right now. Tatung is captured!! (and razed) Maybe the next leader can make a decision on where to settle all of this prime land.

1535AD – Tsingtao destroyed!! Troops still trickling in at the mainland – still not very busy and the extra time is allowing us to take care of China. Beijing razed!! Normally I’m not a fan of the scorched earth game plan, but in this case, I really don’t mind. One less enemy and land we can settle later if desired.

1540AD – More of the same – really just a smattering of troops coming in. Our fifty or so artillery is really making this very simple. Sunk the majority of ships off the coast of Viroconium and only lost one. Destroyed Hangchow!!

1545AD – Ditto. Sank Egyptian pair of ships, Brits sailing up from the south. Attacks on Shanghai produce another leader! Only two Chinese cities left.

1550AD – Barbarians to the south near old China kill one of our workers (phooey).
Chengdu destroyed! Shanghai destroyed!!


Notes: There is a fortified settler in one of the cities to the south – suggest using him for taking up some of the space I cleared out.

There is an unused leader in Ulundi – next turn we get factories, suggest using him to rush a factory somewhere.

There is only one Chinese city left. Unfortunately, I had all the troops in place to finish the job but lost two cavs (to the Greeks). There are several cavalry healing in the former China. Suggest we polish them off.

I think all cities are defended now. Watch out for the Cossacks.

All fronts are not overly hot –

Good luck to the next leader!! It’s good to be back…

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/lotr2-1550AD.zip
 
Toecheese - My message was merely a friendly reminder - as at the time you had not posted in the rbd23-a thread. It was not meant to say "drop everything and do rbd23-a" but a message to nudge you in the direction of the thread. A prod in the direction of the game :P.
 
Incidentally, PROD is a reference to a cattle prod. Someone relative newcomer came up with that I believe in an RBD game (not sure who, originally, maybe meldor?) and it got adopted by Sirian and a couple of the other vet players. Some people like electroshock therapy, I guess... :)
 
Sirian: Thanks for the thumbs up!

Well done ToeCheese! China is practically obliterated and we are finally on the attack. I am amazed at the lack of enemy troops around our borders now. I could usually see 30-40 enemy troops at a time and now there's around 10. Could they begin to be wearing down?

Here's the current map after ToeCheese's turn, 1550AD.

lotr2-1550ad.jpg
 
You said communism had been discovered. Any of them that switch to it from our continent will disintegrate quickly. The other three have built up some infra, but the Chinese didn't seem to have a single building anywhere! Not even sure they have had any barracks. If AI's go communist in this unended war situation, I expect them to go into the drink pretty quickly.

I told you the tide had turned on my last turn. :)

- Sirian
 
You guys have them beaten now. All those Greek Rifles were probably whipped or drafted. The AI's will self-destruct. Your production is going to explode with factories, you're getting an OBSCENE number of leaders, which means ToE, Hoover, Univ Suff. You are inflicting something like 8 to 1 casualties and are destroying cities.

I've really enjoyed reading along, btw. Go for the jugular!

-Arrian
 
Actually, I think you are starting to see the same effect as I saw in LK21. All of a sudden, the AI starts to fizzle.

Our first was a mass destruction of Egypt and in 10 turns a good chunk of the empire gone.

It looks a lot like what I see here with China. Once one front goes, the whole land mass starts opening up. My prediction - things will start move faster on at least one military front.

Now that you have rails - you have the mobility to kick some AI butt. The question, how long to Cavalry vs. Infantry. At that point, the pace will slow down again.
 
Thanks cpp1 - really didn't require much more than hit and run tactics. Plus, I was getting to the point where all our cavs weren't being used on one turn... why not take someone out? (plus the Chinese only had pikes which made it relatively easy)

Originally posted by Sullla
I'm curious about one thing: will you be able to win by conquest or domination before Ulundi gives you a cultural victory?

Actually Sullla, there's little chance on the domination unless we start running roughshod over everyone and build cities in the path of our dust. At the end of my turn, I believe Ulundi had 89 culture per turn (!) which by my nearest guess will give us a win in 90 or so turns. The rest of the opposition is not as inept as the Chinese were...

...If we had tanks on the other hand...

Sirian - I'm not 100% on Communism being available (since I never research it I didn't bother to look). But you're right nonetheless -
 
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