LotR26 Mounted Mongols

Kill them...kill them all :hammer:. Looks like some more effective turns. I would try to scout out Pacal, if he is soft, rip 'em up. Otherwise, I would see if we can get him to close borders with de Gaulle, then take on de Gaulle. I always like killing the stronger because a war in the short term makes you fall further behind.

The other consideration would be kill whoever is closer to Rifling.

Darrell
 
Roster:
Arathorn
darrelljs
Jabah
Ozbenno -- playing -- needs to finish today so Ky has time to play
Kylearan -- on deck

Lots of great warring going on. Fun to read about.

For Curiassier war, we can be logical and go after Pacal or continue to expand around our buddy and hit Ragnar. I think De Gaulle is right out, simply because we have massive war weariness with him now and it'll take forever to go away. We need happy producing people (holding hands).

I guess I think it's time for Pacal to know what happens when you start close to warmongering humans. It's too bad, really. But I think he has to go. But I'd certainly be willing to go Ragnar, Peter, De Gaulle, and only hit Pacal at the very end if we really need to. An open front with our move 2 units might actually work out OK for us. We should have a distinct speed advantage.

Tech-wise, beeline Rifling for cavalry, I imagine.

Thanks for keeping it going while I was away. Sorry for the double-post, have no idea what happened.

Arathorn
 
I'll have this finished in the next 6 hours or so. I think there is loose consensus on Pacal so I'll work towards this and have some pictures of the front and a rough battle plan included. I have quite a few spies in Pacal's lands but they will get booted out when we declare, I'll move them into position on the borders for the declaration. I will also have 2 spies in Peter's cities for tech stealing, I'll put our EP emphasis onto Pacal (2) and Peter (1).
 
Ozbenno, no need to rush as I need a skip anyway, I'm afraid. We have a birth preparation course today evening, and tomorrow evening I will have to prepare for my trip on Wednesday so I won't be able to play unfortunately. I would have been able to squeeze in some builder's turns, but no MM-heavy warmonger's turns. :(

Too bad, I really would have liked a Curiassier war. :hammer: Looks like I'll have to settle for another cavalry war instead, which is fine too. :D

-Kylearan
 
If not too late....

I would say, keep Pacal friendly and hit someone else (Ragnar then Peter). We will have an awfull and long border, but Pacal is friendly and (last time) had no open border with anyone.
Just to show that we are civilised Mongol :), I would leave our only friend in peace.

It will be slightly more complicated (organisation-wise), but we will very lickely have enough to reach domination without Pacal's lands.
Also Ragnar (and later Peter) might even be easier to finish as they are already at war and are less advanced.
Plus as a bonus, we can attack them through Pacal lands, while they should not be able to do it.

Jabah

PS (added) :
If we sign peace, don't forget to revolt to either
- Bureaucracy, mercantilism, OrgRel, if we plan to rebuild a bit (mainly to accelerate Taj, before re-revolting during Taj GA to)
- or directly to (vassal), mercantilism, Theo
 
Well Jabah's comments were 2 minutes from being late but were not so I had another look at the save. Pacal is currently our best friend but is only at cautious.



He has abandoned religion (he has the shwedagon) and won't trade with us, so I think he is a valid target. From a strategic standpoint, he makes the best sense, so I will continue on this path.

We get peace with De Gaulle with the deal shown above. I try to get him to adopt Buddhism as part of the deal but no dice.

Our newly found happy empire boosts its research to get Gunpowder in 7 turns (how many I'll play).

So some peaceful turns are taken.

We lose Taj Mahal :mad: (had 10 turns left).



Gunpowder comes in 1 turn before my end. We need Paper next for Rifling, so select that but research is dialled down to 0% so we can do some upgrading. Actually all our knights were able to be upgraded with our cash reserves so we dial research back up.

So after 310 turns, are we ready to attack Pacal. Well sort of. I noticed this little beauty come up.



He could also be after Pacal but probably after us. We have 3 turns of enforced peace left. I'm not sure if we want to head for him now or sta the course and see what happens.

Here's the Northern Pacal front.



There are 3 cities we can take immediately upon declaring war. Gaul, Isavarapura and Bantcay Kdei. They have 40%, 40% and 20% cultural defense respectively. We have spies available at the two 40% cities but we should probably just rip through them quickly.

The Western front.



Here is where the heat will come from him but nothing we can't handle. We should keep the attackers in reserve and see where he diverts his troops. I have two spies ready to slip into the two cities to get their stationary bonus ready for when we will be starting our attack.

We will have 9 more curassiers built in the next 5 turns. Might be best to wait for these to reinforce the exisitng units and will allow time to see what De Gaulle has in mind (equally, he may just faff about and do nothing). We are still neck and neck with De Gaulle in the power stakes but well ahead of Pacal.



The economy is fairly poor but I've started Forbidden palace in Delhi (as close to central as we have now). There are a couple of banks that can be whipped in Qin's old cities once they grow a bit more.

I say we wait the 5 or so turns and hit Pacal hard. We could concievably take the three cities the turn the war starts without losing one curassier. The RNGod might not be so kind but its possible :crazyeye: :mischief:
 

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If Ky needs a skip, that puts me up.

What to do about De Gaulle? Peter's his vassal, so it's us, Ragnar, or Pacal he's after. Or did Peter break free again? If so, maybe he's after Peter, which would be nice.

This is the second time in a row I've been handed a set-up to go after Pacal.... I didn't do it last time. Will I this time? :) I might wait a bit and see what De Gaulle's up to before I set my course.

Other thoughts?

Arathorn
 
Based on the scouting report, Pacal is incredibly thin. I bet if you declare on the inherited turn you can take him out before your set ends, even if de Gaulle decides to go after us :mischief:.

Darrell
 
Yep, Peter is free again.

I didn't see the last of Jabah's comments regarding civics switching. I didn't change any civics during my turns, mainly because we missed Taj (wouldn't have gone OR before as we only had 11 or so turns when we started). Mercantilism would be a good pickup as we're in Representation already.
 
The problem with WHEOOH is that we have no idea when de Gaulle will attack, or even if he will do so at all (I've seen that state go away without a war more often than not...). So without looking at the save, I'd say let's not waste time and attack Pacal right away if we're in good position to do so. If he's really that weak, we can ignore him and defend against de Gaulle for some turns if needed. And if Peter is free again, maybe it's really him de Gaulle is after.

If we're not in position yet or having more units wouldn't hurt, waiting a couple of turns to see what de Gaull is up to would be okay too. But overall I'd say let's attack.

-Kylearan
 
Consensus seems to be to declare on Pacal immediately. Damn the torpedos and full-speed ahead and all that. Who am I to argue? (Well, the current player, so I can do whatever I want...but I think the plan has merit.)

Cuirs really are pretty strong. Things start well.

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I also take Banteay Kdei further east, but manage to not capture a screenie of that. Whoops. Suffice to say, it was a meaningless hole in the wall that I left undefended a reasonably significant portion of my turnset, while units were needed elsewhere. It was also en route to bigger and better things. I also cleaned up a couple troops out in the open, "guarding" workers or whatnot.

Pacal's counter-attack forces, which were in his west, all moved north to deal with the forces around Isvar.... So, I took the troops which were on counterattack duty and

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while the healing troops near Isvar were designated as clean-up troops.

About that time, our enforced peace with Pacal wore off. He didn't delay in declaring a new war.

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Hmmm....guess it'll be a race, then. At least our troops move 2! :)

Also notice that I'm researching Representationism. Rifling is a LONG ways out. Rep gives us a fantastic building -- jails. I'm also quite happy with cuirs against longbows/muskets and a bit less enamored with racing to rifling and having cavalry face rifles. I'm in no real hurry to speed the tech pace. I would probably even go Corporation after Rep, though with minimal money invested, and try to steal our way to riches.

Pacal's other city in the west, Raja..., is being a pain. My spies can't revolt it, it has 60% culture defense, and 3 pikes plus longbows. Oy. Gotta bypass for now.

Attention is turned east, since that's nearest De Gaulle. You can see he was coming this way already (though if I'd've had one more cuir 2 turns ago, I'd be past here -- a common enough refrain on my turns. I sent 7 where 8 were needed or 11 where 3 were needed. Though in this case I'd lost a cuir to a treb, so I can hardly be blamed.)

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Back in the north, I cleaned up Pacal's main stack pretty easily, got pulted a couple times and healed (making another medic II unit to speed things along). Spies finally arrived and troops were ready. SO....

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The troops that were supposed to be dealing with Pacal's west witnessed another spy fail in Raja and moved further in. They were in a position to hit a number of cities. Angkor Wat was the least defended.

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Operative word there is "was". Notice how isolated Angkor Wat is from the rest of our empire (check the mini-map). Taking this city basically committed me/us to taking out all of Pacal -- no vassalization will stop us. If De Gaulle is too successful too quickly, we'll just continue on with the war. We at least need Raja...

But it's still a nightmare to take. I'm trying to lure out some troops, but.....

In the meantime, Angkor is the theme.

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Save file here, though the report continues next post.

Arathorn
 

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Angkor Wat had drawn some attention and needed reinforcement, but most of that attention came out of Raja. Plus, more spies arrived. The Angkor Thorn left-overs had moved west. I could finally

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That place was a major pain. But now that it's fallen, our empire shape is looking much better again. Pacal is down to two cities. I want his capital, as it's got a ton of grassland and is nicely cottaged. I'm not stopping until this particular shade of blue is all brown.

Our population is finally growing a bit....

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All those plains makes growth difficult. If Biology were ever to come in, that would make things significantly different, though. Anyway, back to the killing fields.

Except it's not us doing the killing. De Gaulle is fielding a fairly major stack....

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This was later reinforced by another similar-sized stack. But he's taking the time to bomb Hariharalaya down, instead of going in whole-hog. And Pacal has more units there than Yasodupuhra.

I would have liked to have gotten a spy to Yasod... but it just wasn't happening. De Gaulle took Hari... I couldn't wait. I went in without breaking down defenses. And got lucky, losing no troops.

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De Gaulle started looking for a new playmate. With our troops far outnumbered and wounded, I gave in when he demanded copper. He obviously has metal units, so it's not a major military bonus and we had 4. Apparently, he found another playmate.

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I'd already started moving troops towards Ragnar, thinking he'd be a good distraction for our troops while we built up enough to go after tech-leading Peter or strength-leading De Gaulle. We may race again. No declaration, but we have a few units on the border (many ready to go on IHT, if so desired).

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We're still neck-and-neck in power with America (De Gaulle). That despite the fact that I built mostly cuirs the entire turnset. A couple places were building banks and new acquisitions had other things to build. Finished Forbidden Palace, of course. And a couple places still had barracks/gers to build. I squeezed in a few spies, too, but it was mostly cuirs.

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Strategy ideas to follow later today....

Arathorn
 

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Lurker question - What is the six star mean on Cao Cao? I've never seen this before in a game.

It's +25% strength -- only available for units with great generals. Handy little promotion, but rare.

Cao Cao is, I believe, the highest xp unit I've ever had in Civ4. 75 xp is a LOT. Granted, he didn't earn them all in the normal way, but he's a combat machine. He also has Tactics (increase retreat chance) beyond what you see in that picture. And he's close to another promotion. March might make the most sense. He's a handy little unit.

Other strategy points:
- We're not commited to any wars. I was thinking Ragnar. We can't declare on De Gaulle for another 7ish turns, because I caved on the copper demand. We have one cuir still near Hari...trying to scout De Gaulle's forces there and movement some. Peter is another valid option, as he's the leading tech threat and our forces aren't far from his borders either.
- Not having any cheap defenders is painful. I miss those more than the attackers, which surprises me some.
- I wish we hadn't upgraded (almost) all our knights. Cuirs only flank cannons and it would have been handy to flank away some trebs/pults of Pacal's. It'll be more critical against De Gaulle's stack, if/when we fight that fight. 10 combat two pikes with some first strike won't be easy, either, as far as that goes.
- I would definitely try to steal Printing Press. I don't recall if it was Peter or De Gaulle close to completing it, but stealing should be cheaper than researching.
- I did *NOT* revolt to Mercantilism. It wasn't from lack of desire to do so. But a 3-turn anarchy for one change seemed a bit excessive. I recommend our next great person become a golden age and we pick our final (or close) govt. types. I recommend Police State, Vassalage, Theocracy, State Property (whoops -- not available), and Emancipation (also not available). If we go straight EE, we won't need the research from Rep. But if we're going to continue to research at a reasonable pace, we need Rep. I'm willing to go either way.
- I recommend going for Corporation after Representationism. Wall Street in our Buddhist shrine city (Delhi, IIRC) will be huge. The extra trade routes will also be quite nice. We may even found a corp, but I doubt the game will go that far. Still, it'd be my recommended path, though not necessarily rapidly (once we get jails, I'd put most spending into espionage).
- Once we get out of revolts and our culture spreads, we can see how close we are to domination. Last I checked, De Gaulle was under 36% of the land, so we wouldn't need to go after him to win, necessarily. We may still want to, though.

Roster:
Arathorn
darrelljs -- UP NOW
Jabah -- on deck
Ozbenno
Kylearan

Arathorn
 
It's +25% strength -- only available for units with great generals. Handy little promotion, but rare.

Cao Cao is, I believe, the highest xp unit I've ever had in Civ4. 75 xp is a LOT. Granted, he didn't earn them all in the normal way, but he's a combat machine. He also has Tactics (increase retreat chance) beyond what you see in that picture. And he's close to another promotion. March might make the most sense. He's a handy little unit.

For CaoCao, I would consider shock for his next promotion, as the only unit he might fear a bit are pikes, or cover if we are using him against lgbow in city.
 
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