Lotr5 -- Tactless Darius

Whoops, good point:

Omm.. Iron Works, Iron Works :worshp:

So T-hawk, it looks to me like you are advocating waiting on Hospitals until after Rep Parts? This from the master of the worker farm? Actually, I don't know how many of our cities have more than 12 good tiles to work, but I would probably try to get them in before Electricity.

At the old Deity tech pace I often skipped nationalism altogether, but we will most likely need espionage before too long.
 
You need several things for hospitals to pay off:

- the economic buildings built in the cities so the extra population productivity is multiplied
- enough worker labor to optimize the cities for irrigation/mines as needed. This is never true until all the rails are completed and Rep Parts is acquired
- enough MORE workers to merge into the cities that will never grow on their own before somebody launches
- enough happiness solutions for the cities that are going to grow large. We do NOT have this
- cities that actually want to grow above size 12. We have three (Persepolis, Antioch, and Nuremburg)

Lacking any of those, hospitals don't reach their full potential, and they can safely wait. Sanitation is also a two-tech run, requiring Medicine, as compared to factories, stock exchanges, Electricity-irrigation, and Replaceable Parts which are all one tech beyond another important advance.

Finally, don't forget we do need those coal plants. Factories, coal plants, stock exchanges, hospitals, not to mention banks and cathedrals in our slower-building cities... that's a lot of expensive buildings; one of them's gotta wait.
 
I agree on the factories, stock exchanges, etc. without question. I was hedging on the irrigation and RP, but I buy your analysis. We wont have the excess workers necessary to pump up and optimize our cities and you can't get to RP without Electricity so...
 
Looks like we have a consensus plan. Steam Power (hopefully that will pop as our free tech -- and then I'll get an Iron Works message, too....Ommm....) first and foremost, the Industrialization and hopefully start on Corporation. All sounds good to me.

Keep one worker farm at one worker/2 turns and look into possibly trying to make a worker/turn farm for a while since we have need of workers for RRs.

Arathorn
 
There won't be any "looking into" on the latter. :) Susa can. Pasargadae probably can but not at the same time as Susa. Persepolis also can with its two wheats and fish, but shrinking that city would be too much of an economic hit. No other city will be able to.

Susa can quite possibly make +20 food and +10 shields at size 11 for a worker every turn without having to shrink the city. Arbela and Konigsberg would have to give up a couple tiles. Do "look into" that. :) Also prebuild factories.

One change to my previous analysis: if we DO perchance pull Medicine for free, I might move Sanitation up to after Corporation. That one-tech advance might (or might not) help us more immediately than the one-tech advances of Electricity irrigation and Rep Parts.

Of course, if the gods of coal don't answer our prayers, it's all moot...

One other thing - put something on a Palace to prebuild for its factory; either Antioch or Konigsberg would be my choice.
 
A mostly bad news turn. Everything was pretty straight-forward, except for the big role of the dice in 1520 AD, when we entered the Industrial Age. And we drew ....

Nationalism. The most worthless draw for this variant. Major bummer. I started paying about 100 gpt to get Steam as quickly as reasonable (8 turns), to find out if we even have coal to make rails.

Antioch's palace is a factory pre-build. Do NOT let it complete as a palace.

The good news came in 1545 when Ghandi came knocking. It only cost our WM and 170 gold to get India's world map, which is complete. We know the whole world now. I disbanded a couple exploring galleys which were 10+ turns from home.

The map revealed some interesting things. One of note is that Carthage has 3 cities -- one of which has iron and saltpeter and is alone on its island and the other two with wine and dyes and a foothold on Russia's main island. It's probably worth our time to explore their defenders (they might still be defending with muskets...) and consider the possibility of trying to mount an attack against them, once Replaceable Parts trickles in.

I just hope we have coal. Iron Works would be Omm-arific, but just coal would make me happy.

I have a couple cities which are building riflemen, as we need some kind of appearance of defense sometime soon.

Gothmog -- UP now
Charis -- still skipped
JMB -- on deck

Save file at http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/lotr5-1550ad.zip

Arathorn
 
Of course the IronWorks will be in your most corrupt city...there's a streak ongoing remember ?
;)
 
Full world map is nice and will help our strategizing. Too bad about Nationalism but we move on. 8 turns @-100gpt is pretty harsh, but no one has offered us any techs recently and we have had cash in the treasury.

Looks like another building turn for me. Did you check out the 1 wpt farm suggested by T-hawk?
 
Since we were still a few turns from steam and I wasn't sure whether we had coal, I didn't investigate it very closely. It looks feasible in Susa or maybe Pasargadae, but I'm not sure whether it's worth the cost to the surrounding cities.... I thought we were one tech further along than we were and that I would get Steam on my turn. If Steam had been our free tech, I'd've looked at the situation very closely, but as it is, I figured the next player (strong player that he is! ;)) could do the investigation.

Oh, BTW, tundra with mines on it has already been chopped, so there's no benefit to chopping it again.

We're definitely in builder mode. Russia is seriously scary at this point. The other civs are not so scary but still probably dangerous.

@Skyfish: Our territory is small enough that any city with IronWorks would be a major boon. Either of our cities with iron would seriously rock with IW. I'm betting against it, though.

Arathorn
 
Sure, sure, butter me up and then leave me to do the dishes, :rolleyes: I wasn't born yesterday you know.

Now I'll have to look at it closely or once again face the highly detailed wrath of T-hawk. ;)
 
Preturn: Orient myself... looks good. Remind myself about worker farm.

(IT) Abu calls up and demands Iron. I was just looking at the histogram and he is weak so I refuse and he backs down, he is still Polite. The only civ's I'll back down to are Russia and France at this point. We are #7 on the list of 7 most advanced civ's.

(1) 1555 - Send Galleys to check out Carthage's defences.

(IT) Russia demands Spices, who can say no to that face? :love: :rolleyes:
Steam comes in -> Indust in 8 @ -47.

(2) 1560 - Yes, we have no bananas - but we do have coal [dance] near Lepzig. Whew, no Iron Works though.

(3) 1565 - Rails, working on Susa cluster. Prioritizing getting Susa's bank up.

(4) 1570 - more of the same

(IT) Susa builds bank, it's MM time!

(5) :aargh: Susa can reach +19 food +10 shield but not a penny more; and Arbella can reach +10f/+10s but one shield is corrupt, or it can reach +9f/+11 shield. I decide to go with both as 2 turn farms, thus spreading around the good tiles. Carthage has rifles.

(IT) Moscow completes Hoover.

(6) 1580 - MM

(7) 1585 - Disband a couple of reg rifles to help a bank. Leptis Minor is an Iron Works city and there seems to be a big stack of Infantry and Cossack right outside their front gate. Probably left over from the last war as they seem to be fortified. Russia is currently at war with Korea as I see some naval battles. Just think, things could be worse if Russia wasn't at war!

(8-9) 1590 - 1595 - workers work.

(IT) - Ind comes in -> corp in 8@+8 or in 7@-50. I swap to factories where appropriate.

(10) 1600 - I left research at 8@+8, it could be hurried.

All right, we are actually quite popular (lots of polite civs) for such a tactless race. Maybe we'll win diplo after all :lol:
We can only hope that factories and stock exchanges help us. Russia and Korea both have large cities in their cores, we could use that too.

Take it T-hawk.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/lotr5-1600ad.zip
 
With Arbella, could you have left a tile with at least one shield open, so that it could grow, auto-pick that tile to pick up another shield for 10, build the worker, and shrink back to size 6? That's about the only way I've ever had any luck getting a pre-RR worker farm to completely work. JMB, you might want to look into that. I'll try to grab the save tonight and check myself....

BTW, the mighty balrog's post is wrong. T-hawk is not next... JMB is.

ORDER:
JMB -- up now
T-hawk -- on deck
Charis -- awaiting word -- can jump into either position if he has time/desire or can wait for another round. Just make it CLEAR who has the game! :)

At least we have coal. Russia's VERY scary but hopefully crazy Cathy will slow herself down enough that we can catch up. Next "prayer" is for rubber on our island.... OMMM!!!!!

Nice turns Gothmog,
Arathorn
 
Sorry about the turn order, I am used to Charis following me. That's why this is Lotr5 and not GM-2!

I didn't look into the open tile gambit, it is hard to make all those cramped cities happy without all the tiles in play. Even Konigsberg gets into the act because it need some bonus food to be able to work those gems and iron.
 
1600 - I look into the Arbela situation, and it appears that we probably can get it to 1 worker per turn. I have changed things and will see how they work out next turn. IBT, Carthage demands we withdraw from their territory. Leptis Minor is now part of Russia.

1605 - The worker a turn works!! :goodjob: (It does require a bit of MMing each turn though...)

1610 - Not much.

1615 - Not much. IBT, the Russians destroy the Carthaginians.

1620 - Not much.

1625 - Not much. IBT, the French offer us Silks for our Gems. We gratefully accept.

1630 - We now have an Ironclad!! :)

1635 - We learn the Corporation, and begin researching Medicine. I was going to go for Electricity (and Rep Parts), but thought that getting our cities larger ASAP might be more worthwhile (at least for those cities that have enough happiness... We have at least 4 cities that can be ~ 4 sizes larger with no unhappiness problems.))

1640 - Not much.

1645 - Not much.

1650 - Medicine due next turn at a fair deficit (I decided to do deficit research because no one has offered us any techs in a long time... Also, our ~ 1000 gold wouldn't be enough to purchase any techs. Perhaps someone will offer to purchase techs from us soon...). I also thought that it was better to run a few taxmen (and starve a couple of cities) rather than keep our lux tax at 20% (a net saving of around 75 gpt). I am using Antioch to produce riflemen for our cities (even though it wastes a lot of shields) so that we can start disbanding some of our spearmen.

Here's the save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/lotr5_1650AD.zip

T-hawk, you're up...

JMB
 
Ooops! I played yesterday but forgot to post when my dialup wouldn't connect :crazyeye:

With all the map information in our hands, we can see that Russia really isn't so scary after all. They do have a lot of land, but unless by some miracle they managed to rush a Forbidden Palace on an island away from home, they aren't going to have any more research power than us. Well, except for the Deity cost factor difference, but that'll be more than made up for by the fact that Russia's in Communism and looks to be staying that way for quite some time with all those wars. France and India look as if they'll hold out against Russian aggression just fine.

And I see Arbela's at worker-every-turn status; I didn't think it'd make that, but :goodjob:

Wall Street: Well, we do want it, but the fifth stock exchange will be Hamburg's which isn't due for 10 turns; or Leipzig's a turn or two sooner if lumberjacking helps it. Because of that, I switch Persepolis, Heidelburg, and Pasargadae to coal plants to build those before their stock exchanges. (The coal plant costs 160 shields and gives the same benefit as a factory. If you're going to build the latter, definitely build the former.)

Antioch will build one more rifle, then start a prebuild for its Hospital.

==========

Between turns, Medicine finishes, Sanitation ordered. 5 turns at -158 deficit; it'll take 6 total.

Antioch will build one more rifle, then. Actually, it can alternate between building rifles in 1 turn and 2 turns, running severe food deficit for the first rifle then earning back the food over 2 turns.

Oh, and irrigating that one mined grassland next to Konigsberg lets it work one less water square and one more productive mountain, and also makes that water square available for Susa to work. That also means Susa's irrigated wheat can be mined. "Highly detailed wrath", indeed. :lol:

1665 AD: We catch a Russian agent sabotaging production in Konigsberg. Uh oh, Cathy has noticed that we exist...

1680 AD: Sanitation comes in; Antioch builds its Hospital this same turn, then starts a Wall Street prebuild for real. Electricity is ordered up; will take 9 turns at sustainable rate but hopefully the hospitals will drop that.

1685 AD: Antioch reaches size 19. The Wall Street build will take 4 turns. Pasargadae will complete the fifth stock exchange soon enough, so I swap Persepolis to a hospital instead.

A Russian Battleship-Transport pair entered our sea territory but then left again. :confused:

1700 AD: Antioch swaps to Wall Street, due this turn. I shut off research for last turn and this to get up to 1000 gold.

Persepolis and Heidelburg built hospitals and grew themselves to size 13, and now get workers merged in to size 18. (Can't go larger without raising the lux tax.) Heidelburg has finished its buildings and is now on rifleman-pumping duty.

==========

Don't build hospitals in Tarsus, Konigsberg, and Susa; they don't have the food to grow. The Nuremberg-Munich Plains will benefit greatly from the advent of Electricity. Also irrigate the one landlocked grassland square SW of Hamburg so that city can grow one more size.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/lotr5-1700ad.zip
 
lotr5-1700ad.jpg


Oh, and I forgot to mention this: after we research up to Rep Parts, skip the Sci Meth branch for the moment until we get to Mass Production and the Commercial Docks.

By the way, ya know something? We're going to lose to Russian culture. Judging from our total of 16,600 and the relative sizes on the histogram, Russia's up over 70,000 culture already. And they have just about twice as much as France and are gaining against them.

And if that doesn't happen, Moscow is on pace for an eventual 20k win, having the Pyramids, Copernicus, Shakespeare, and Sun Tzu there.

And if THAT doesn't happen, we could easily lose by diplomatic election; not to Cathy the tyrant but to Joanie who'd be the other participant.

But - we are currently #3 in population, behind only France and Russia of course. When somebody starts the United Nations, we may have to run a crash max-irrigation project and run all our cities up to max population, in an attempt to get ahead of Joanie and get eligibility for the election. I have no idea if we could actually pull that off, since France has four size-24 cities including one 28.

Well, we'll see what happens...
 
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