LotR6 - Progressive Paranoia

Looking good. Very nice turns, Gothmog. A secure beachhead, on a hill, soon to be defended by MI, is optimal.

Skyfish, remember that we are duty-bound to go into AW mode now that we are in the Modern Age. That specifically means declaring on the Mongols. Hopefully their capital on the old French Isle won't be a problem. Unless Gothmog moved them, we have two sipahi armies and some artillery there, so have fun. War will need to be declared before the first inter-turn.

Bunker Hill should probably have an airport rushed ASAP. I would cash-rush it (via a worker, so it only costs 4 gold/shield and not 8 gold/shield). This will allow us to airlift in troops, as well as upgrade the ones that are already there. I'd use the leader for SETI back on the home island, as we may want to try to research our way to modern armor, to lessen the pain of the slog through Aztecia/Japan.

Skyfish -- UP
T-hawk -- ON DECK
JMB -- in the hole
Arathorn -- stil just chillin'
Gothmog -- beginning recovery

Once this is done, who's going to be interested in LotR7? It will be quite different from the last two, I imagine, but still a deity variant....

Arathorn
 
I forgot to mention that I declared war on the mongols right after the successful steal of Radio. I reached their city with one of our Siaphi armies and attacked killing a reg rifle. They only have muskets left and we have two Siaphi armies and a number of other Siaphi right outside their door. They will be a memory on Skyfish's first turn.

Edit: LotR7 is on my list of things to do, but lets hear your ideas!
 
IIRC, GLs can't be airlifted (just as inexplicably as settlers and workers) so you would've had to send him home by boat anyway.

Edit: Oh, you meant to USE him to rush an airport. :crazyeye:

Always War! Great! I suppose we're pretty much only interested in acquiring techs by stealing now. I guess we need to wait for an indication that someone has a new tech before doing so. We've got Computers (great!)... the only one of the available techs that has an indicator is Fission with UN construction. Can't tell on Ecology or Rocketry (AIs don't build cruise missiles), and I'd say we're not interested in Miniaturization/Internet.

Synth Fibers is the important one, and we'll know when we see MAs around - or hopefully we'll win before that happens :)

Also, don't forget about nukes! :nuke: They'd be well within our game theme. If the game goes as far as us getting Space Flight, those are the best way to crack capitals full of a dozen MIs...
 
A few responses:

- The PTW AI will occasionally build cruise missiles. I saw a number of them in the last gasp effort of LotR5. Not always, but sometimes.
- Are our research capabilities up to trying to get to Synth Fibers on our own? MA are so much better than tanks that I'm almost tempted to try. But first-civ prices on deity? OUCH.
- We are somewhat interested in other techs, too. Communism would give us police stations, which help with corruption, but, more importantly, with happiness. A police station in a size 16 city gives 4 happy faces and 5 happy faces in a size 20 metropolis. That's not insignificant.
--- Subpoint: To a reasonable extent, amphibious assault would also be good, simply to take out the French.
- With that in mind, it might well be worth stealing once or twice, even if we're not sure they've acquired a "new" tech, because some of the old ones are still useful.... Maybe.
- http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=59054 is the thread for LotR7. I encourage you all to check it out.
- I'm in favor of staying in Republic now. Another luxury will help and I think 8 turns of anarchy are too painful to contemplate.

Arathorn
 
I forgot about Communism. I say go for that at max sustainable immediately; the happiness boost from police should let us stay in Republic for the duration.

As for further research, it's a tough call. Pros: MAs and nukes. Cons: we don't have the scientific buildings infrastructure and stealing is significantly cheaper now.

Overall, I'd say we're doing fine now with tanks and mechs, but if someone else gets to computers and mechs (wehich we can prevent through rubber or oil denial), then build the research labs and go for MAs.
 
Communism... Yes! I just wanted to get tanks first and then to the modern age. Should be able to research it in 4. I didn't pump up any cities during my turns for lack of happiness, but police stations should make it possible in some locations.

Well I did see Aztec mechs on my turns, I don't think I saw Jap ones though. I call them MI's in my turnlog. Still with good arti support even MI fall pretty easy, just a little slower. I already have a combat settler waiting in Bunker Hill.

Resource Denial is always a good call.
 
Actually guys something's come up and I have to ask for a skip, I have no access to Civ this week-end and can not play on Monday night :(
I am very sorry to let you down but there's nothing I can do on this one...
 
Got it, and playing now. But it's going to take a while.... here's a preview....

lotr6-sods.jpg
 
Hmm. I'd thought we didn't have much scientific infrastructure, but I must've been thinking of another game (probably LK50), since we've got plenty. Based on that, I swap most of our core cities to research labs, to facilitate researching Communism, and also I think we will want to self-research at least key techs like Synthetic Fibers.

Also, somebody forgot to build Commercial Docks, an oversight that I correct. Except that Sinop which is working two water tiles and Miami which should've had a hospital long ago instead do have the docks. :crazyeye: :smoke:

I'll wait one turn to let some Research Labs complete, but then research goes to max (60%) on Communism due in three turns, and then we'll build lots of police stations. This will be a build-up turn, I don't expect to be doing any more massive invasions just yet. Attacking mechs with tanks is undesirable anyway; we're going to go to modern armors or nukes or both.

Diplo check - heh, we don't need no stinkin' diplomacy!

We have a stack of 25 artys on former France sitting idle. Sounds like a good reason to rush a transport in Kirklareli, since they can't be airlifted.

==========

Between turns - HOLY SHIZNIT!

lotr6-sods.jpg


Those are SEPARATE STACKS. Including at least four armies total. And each of those pictures shows about HALF the units in each stack. AND there's a JAPANESE stack of about the same size two squares away from Bunker.

During our production phase I scroll ahead to Bunker Hill and disband a bunch of units - mostly sipahi - to get a harbor (not a more expensive airport) completed this turn so we can upgrade all the infantry there. I only do this because we should've had a harbor or airport rushed last turn but the city inexplicably rioted with a governor still on.

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1665 AD: I clear out 8 artillery into the waiting transport which can reach safety in Birmingham, and do the same with the bombers. The remaining artillery bombard whatever they can, and the destroyers take out one Aztec battleship. Everyone else does the Bunker Hunker.

At least we eliminate the Mongols. I should've thought to try stealing a world map from them before doing so. But I try that now on France, and we get it. The island which had a tip visible with coal turns out to be two squares big, both mountains. :crazyeye:

I also upgrade most of our infantry to mechs. Leonardo's is still working.


Between turns, even before the gigantic Battle of Bunker Hill, a bunch of Aztec battleships pop out of Ixtapaluca and knock off most of our navy there.

As for Bunker Hill... IT HOLDS! Mostly because the Aztecs attacked with about half their units, then retreated with the rest. It looked like they attacked with an army, then because it took damage decided to retreat it, and moved half of the rest of their units to cover that one army. :smoke:

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1670 AD: Unfortunately, AI artillery use (!) took out the Walls and Barracks of Bunker Hill! So our units didn't heal all the way; none of the mechs has better than 3 HP. Fortunately, though, last turn I moved all the available infantry on English Isle to Birmingham and upgraded them. So that transport that took artillery to Birmingham last turn now ships Mech Infantry back to Bunker Hill. The transport is exposed and will die, but now we have eight fresh veteran mechs in Bunker.

Also our Leader reaches home and rushes SETI in Edrine.

Hey, that transport I built to move the Leader can get back to English Isle this turn as well. I pull six more mechs from inland core cities (leaving many undefended), send them through to Birmingham and load them on the second transport there, and now we have 14 fresh veteran mechs in Bunker.

Does anyone else realize how incredibly lucky we were to get Computers for the free tech? Without that, Bunker Hill would be dust and we'd be seeing immense stacks of tanks landing on our homeland.


Between turns is another battle at Bunker. The Aztecs again attack with half their units and retreat the rest, and when they're done a 4/4 vet mech is still showing. Then the Japanese do the same. And we get a Great Leader in the defense as well.

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1675 AD: That GL... well, any improvement he builds is going to get blown up in short order, so about the only thing to do is form an army and load mechs into it. I don't do tanks because a 4-tank army will get selected as a defender ahead of a standalone mech which I don't want.

Then in counterattacking some exposed units we get yet another GL and now we do have a tank army.

Then in counterattacking MORE exposed units we get yet ANOTHER GL and now we have a second tank army. :D


Between turns, the Aztecs feed another two dozen troops into the jaws of Bunker Hill, but they take out our mech army with a tank army. And they take out what was left of our meager navy in the area.

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1680 AD: One of our tank armies attacks a lone mech infantry and manages to lose. :P It feels so wasteful to see GLs come and go like this...


The Aztecs build a new city southeast of Bunker Hill. And they feed some more troops to our meat grinder.

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1685 AD: Little happens. Trying to get together some semblance of a navy but it isn't working. Bombard and sink a few boats that ventured too close to our home continent.

BT, get another GL on defense who forms another mech army.

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1690 AD: Our people yearn for a change in government to Communism. Maybe they do, but we're going to force them to stay in a Republic. No, that doesn't quite make sense. :lol:

We start building Police Stations of course. What now? Uh, any modern tech would take us at least 22 turns to research. Definitely time to save up and steal. One indication of when anyone gets a new tech is to periodically check the approximate beaker costs of the available techs. Right now the beaker costs are approximately 10,500 for Ecology, 9,700 for Rocketry, and 11,500 for Fission. That's a consistent ratio with the relative costs in the editor, so I'm pretty sure nobody has any yet.

More slaughter at Bunker Hill.

BT, get yet ANOTHER GL on defense.

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1695 AD: Hey, the Police Stations don't seem to be doing anything in the happiness department. Edrine and New York have exactly the same happiness configurations after building the stations as they did before. :confused:

That Great Leader rushes an airport in Bunker Hill. It's going to get blown away by artillery, but we will get to use it for one turn first which will let me get some reinforcement tanks over there.

Between turns, the Aztecs find a fresh stack of 20+ MIs to attack us with, killing the mech army and reducing us to a single, damaged mech in the city along with about 10 tanks.

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1700 AD: But now we have an airport in Bunker Hill. Massive airlifting gets another dozen each tanks and mechs there. But our real problem is artillery, which can't be airlifted. There's about 50 artillery stacked up on old English Isle that can't make it over to Bunker Hill; if they got there this tide would finally be turned. The only possible way to get them there is to rush suicide transports out of Birmingham, which I start doing.

BT, our airport gets bombed out as expected. The Aztecs attack with another two dozen units and the Japanese contribute a dozen tanks; we do lose two or three mechs including one to that danged Aztec tank army.

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1705 AD: A suicide transport leaves Birmingham, sure to die but delivering 8 artillery to Bunker Hill first.

We get a GL counterattacking at Bunker Hill. Now what? Another temporary airport won't help yet, because we don't have the troops stockpiled at home to airlift over. I guess it's another army.

BT, more attrition at Bunker Hill but the flood finally seems to be slowing. Also, I'd been wondering when this was going to happen, but somebody makes a landing on old West French Island, but it's only a single tank and we handle it fine.

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1710 AD: Kill about 10 units and lose one at Bunker Hill. Here's a picture of the area:

lotr6-bunkerhill.jpg


There's a battleship blocking the square we need to send another suicide transport from Birmingham to deliver more artillery. The next time we get a GL, use it for another temporary airport to drop in more troops. I left our last army empty because I couldn't decide what to put in it; even a mech army is getting killed quickly here.

That Japanese artillery stack has been causing major headaches because the city can't keep any improvements (like barracks or walls) intact. But there's nothing we can do against it either. This stalemate is not going to be broken until nukes or Modern Armor.

Our spy shows the Aztecs with only 14 tanks left but still 119 mech infantry. Japan has 75 infantry (no mechs) and 13 tanks. The flow is slowing but is still far from a trickle.

The Aztecs have at least a dozen battleships in the area, and also fighters in Tepexpan which shot down one of our bombers that was hitting a battleship. Don't squander our meager navy; I doubt we'll ever achieve naval superiority here.

Take care of the few Sipahi left at Bunker; they can knock off the last unit in a stack on one of the hill squares and retreat to safety.

I have not seen any Marines yet at all - to our great relief (we are running on cardboard fumes in many areas.)

The relative tech cost for Fission went down so somebody has it. We don't need to steal it just yet, though (we won't need it until Space Flight, for nukes.) Lux pretty much has to stay at 30%, at least until we're able to secure the Bunker Hill area and hook up that incense, but that's still quite a number of turns away.

I continued to build Police Stations even though they don't seem to be working for happiness...?

Ugh. I'm exhausted, but it was a blast and I was hell-bent on finishing a full 10 turns. :) Good luck to the next leader!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/lotr6-1710ad.zip
 
I'm confused as to why the police stations are not working -- but I remember an earlier test which claimed to show that police stations only have an effect on WW that accrues after construction of the police station. I think the tests that people ran recently were done with a police station already constructed.

If this is the case, and you've already hit stage 3 WW in Republic, then police stations will only lower corruption.
 
Great turns T-Hawk !
Sorry for leaving you in such a situation but glad you had fun :)
120 MechInfs hu ? No problem, easy, peasy.... :ack:
:lol:
 
Looks like great turns, T-hawk. The grinder of Bunker Hill will long be remembered. But, the key is that we've still survived!! And with "only" 20 or so tanks attacking from each foe each turn, we might actually turn the tides a bit and start being able to push back, instead of just absorbing all the blows.

Bummer that polic stations aren't helping with war weariness. I'd really hoped for that relief. I just don't think we can afford anarchy to go to Monarchy, though.

Establishing beachheads that last is one of the toughest things to do in Civ3. We're doing it here against two deity foes that have had time to build up a large force. I'm just glad we're survived -- probably.

Keep the MI flowing to Bunker Hill. At some point, it would be nice to get a more permanent airfield on the J/A island, but that will probably be mid- or late- in my turns.

JMB -- you're UP!
Arathorn -- on deck

Remember -- play up to 10, preferably at least 5. Good luck.

Arathorn
 
Wow, I didn't expect so many more units (esp tank armies) to show up. I wonder why they took so long to get back from mongolia? I think Bunker Hill has been well worth it anyway, we have had a great kill ratio there (I love to see MI attacking rather than defending), and it has reduced our need to protect our own borders, which are long.

I'm also somewhat surprized about the navy situation. I had driven them back from our borders on my turns and thought we were turning the tide in the narrows near Bunker Hill.

Anyhow, turns look good. We're on our way in this one.
 
A suggestion I thought of later:

Load mechs into the army I left empty (when we get another round of mechs over to Bunker, not before or the army will get killed), and then park it on the hill-incense square. I bet the AIs will ignore that and keep attacking the city with everything they've got. Securing that tile gets us 1) incense, 2) a place to put a permanent airfield with a worker (still two of those in Bunker), and 3) a forward base from which we can attack the Japanese infantry stack.

We still didn't have the resources to do that on my turn - it was all I could do to avoid losing Bunker completely - but we should be able to do that soon.


Chrth: The Aztecs could have taken Bunker Hill if they had wanted. This goes down not as a classic of ingenuity, but as a classic of AI :smoke: tactics. :) By now, Bunker is pretty safe and with it victory is pretty much assured.

But that was still by FAR the biggest fight I've ever seen in Civ 3. Probably close to 200 Aztec casualties and over 100 for the Japanese so far, plus 30-40 of our own. :hammer: And it isn't even over yet.
 
It is interesting that the Police Stations are not working to combat war weariness. They ought to be reducing "Give Peace A Chance" from ~55% down to ~45% in cities where they are built (assuming maximum WW accumulation). Perhaps Police Stations can be overwhelmed by excessive weariness?
 
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