Low Sea Zara (Deity Isolation)

[Implo]

Probably should have mentioned that events are on! I like them and its a fun way to make every game uniqe. Take the good and the bad!

@BornInCantaloup

Spoiler :

Quick 2 settlers to fogbust and then no archery? Interesting. You sure utilize every possible advantage. So nice.


The floodplains land.. can turn into many great cities. And one serious byro cap. Early Monarchy here?

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Don't worry, Implo, I actually think the events are a nice touch I just don't want a positive one by T20 ^^
Trying to do some dotmapping :

Spoiler :

I think this is my plan :


Settle both NE cities. Sheep city's radius does a ton and leaves the option for a 2x clam city (haven't fully scouted the coast - will do when settlers are in transit).
SE city can share the gold to help with Aksum's growth. This city could be 1N, too. Scouting will tell but that area is off limits for now.
1N of the sheep is also conceivable. 1N of my 3 unhealth spot is also conceivable. Pretty sure a floodplains has to be burnt, here. Maybe something to consider : this city has 7 tiles it wants to work and are not shared. Maybe it is too much. Settling the helper 1N would help.

With this plan, I need a border pop to connect my 2 cities. If I settle the northern one first (whip workboat), both are settled 3 turns apart. 7 turns apart if I settle sheep first.
The earlier border pop is a thing (secure desert) but I kinda want to settle the fish first Both options open trade routes 9 turns from now

I don't know about the tech path. We have a happy cap of 6 with what we see, so we want something for sure.
All of those cities, except for the gold helper have a food surplus >> 6F/t. More like 8-10F/t (which is good !). Monarchy/Caste are options, yes, and have the same pre-requisites. Maybe Silver is lying in the tundra and we can go Metal Casting relatively early ?


I think it's fine to research Archery given we have the gold, by the way but, yes, I'll look into an alternative if I can find one. Two cities and a single unit holding the whole northern area is appealing

edit : I played it out. So, T42.

Spoiler :

I went Fish first (slavery revolt) and realized when I planted city 3 it was auto-connected to Aksum via Lake + rivers. Hum... well, earlier fish still has merits.
Barbarians did not seem interested in invading, yet, so I chopped the 2nd worker in Aksum (3rd chop). Having the worker by Aksum means the sheep is not improved asap = can afford the second worker.
Now with 3 cities it's : granaries.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

You sure utilize every possible advantage.

Thank you. I was taught early in my days on this forum that a paused game is not being lost. Save the game, quit the game, think about it, come back with a plan. I'll most often play in very short sessions, like 20 minutes or so. By then, I'm sure a new subject has arisen to ponder.
I will make the same mistakes / overlook the same things as anybody when playing without a plan or skipping relevant stopping points

So it goes like this (T43) :

Spoiler :

Gondar is settled on the best spot on T37 :

This is riverside, 2x fish, 3x floodplains.
Scout and warrior are relocated in the East to cover more territory. Fortified Warrior in the north killed a Warrior and there is still an Archer in the fog.

Without barb pressure, Aksum's worker... chops a worker :


Southern warrior discovers a nice defensive point.
Yes, I'm not sending my lone worker on a 10 tiles trek to assist new cities.
Lalibela is settled on T41, completing the plan for initial expansion/fogbusting :



Now, we have excellent vision south of Aksum. The Northern Archer still shows no interest. Keep building that worker !
Lalibela/Aksum are connected. I could have +10 commerce if I settled that spot first but that would also amount to -15 food in Gondar. Having thought about it errr... after the fact, I still believe double fish is the best city 2.

T42 : The Northern archer crosses the river towards Aksum, an Archer appears from the fog in the East.
I decide this is a fine point to risk both fights (I could still build a warrior in Aksum if I need extra defence). Leading to :



And this is a fine stopping point for me. Barb threat has been defeated and Pottery has been researched.
The Scout will go fogbust the NW when Lalibela pops its borders, freeing up the other warrior.
Granaries are the question.

There is one thing I know : Gondar. Gondar has 2 fishes. I want to whip the first one. I want to chop the second one. This is how the city gets to size 4 asap and 2pop whips its Granary.
Gondar is our strongest city, we warp our management around it. So 1 worker goes north, it can complete its chop in 6 turns. Turns out the city needs 7 turns to grow, whip and grow back. 1 spare turn.

Aksum grows in 5. We can put a chop in 3 turns. It needs 4 turns to exceed 40H/60 --> Granary can be completed in 4 turns, with a modest benefit.

Lalibela is our weakest city. Is 3 turns to border pop, 6 turns from growth. It should be apparent that we are short on worker turns. So, perphaps, the city starts on a Worker in 6 turns.
Aksum's Worker can proceed to improve the sheep (done in 8 turns). Gondar's worker can proceed to chop the worker (completes the chop in 10 turns). In 10 turns, Lalibela will have produced 24 Hammers in the worker, up to 44 Hammers with the chop, lack 16H while doing 7H/t.... We lack 2 hammers... so...
... ok, we have a plan, we do part improve the sheep for a turn on the way to Gondar with our spare turn.
Sheep is improved in 7 turns. Chop is complete in 11 turns and will complete the 3rd worker at 60H/60.

Was this worth a stopping point ? Yes, I'd say it was.

Thank you, BiC, very nice plan ! Clear and easy to follow through but wrong maths are wrong, don't you know ?
I'll be away til the end of this week, so I give you my T50 :

Spoiler :

Yeah... 3 turns to border pop, uh ?



Right... Granary takes effect the turn after it is complete...
I knew this chop wasn't good, I knew it ! I just wanted to convince myself otherwise !



Result. Aksum will go Warrior -> Library, next.
Probably should have switched Lalibela from Warrior to Granary, hum ? Nobody mentionned that in their plan

 

[Implo]

@BornInCantaloup

Spoiler :

the northern spot with double fish. I settlede on the elephant making it possible to get a second city and share the fish. The lalibella health consideration is very nice. That something I did not think about to much.. I just grabbed as much Floodplains as possible. And setteled E of the sheep. I also grabbed the Crab city as my 3rd spot. But that city really did not contribute to the empire much except grow a cottage or to.. So definitely going to prioritize 5-6 food tiles further away over measily 4 food tiles close by.

Every 3 FP is on unhealth right?

And overall.. that minimalistic approach to fogbusting with cities etc. boy. you probably save between 3-5 gold pr turn compared to my situation.

Must say it again its so nice seeing the different approaches to a game.

Btw. Turn 50.. what to do going forward?

 

[krikav]

Floodplains give 0.4 unhealth, rounded down.
So 4 is nice, since it's 1.6 and thus 1.
7 is also neat since it's 2.8 and thus 2.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Btw. Turn 50.. what to do going forward?

Hum...

Spoiler :

Tech target : I think you were right about Monarchy. I probably also want Code of Laws, next (many discounts - I don't care much about the Religion but I do care about the Civic - and this time I won't open the Philo bulb).

Yes @maintenance. I paid 5-7gpt on the other Zara map since the very beginning and that was not a good experience

Priorities :
- Set up Granaries. Granaries > Settlers when they become available ; A Granary basically doubles the food output of a city, so that's like claiming another developped city as far as production is concerned.
- Set up remaining cities --> we don't need very many improved tiles until we do that ;
- Set up Libraries ; especially Library in Gondar (1st GS comes from there for an Academy). Early Academy vs Settlers from Gondar is a question.

On splitting the food vs keeping it all to a single city :
This is a little controversial and map dependent. If you split the food, you have more global happy cap when it comes to whipping but, until then, you pay more maintenance and need to set up twice the infrastructure. I like the double food city, in that it skims on settler costs and infra and maintenance. It means we can end the settling phase earlier.
The way I see it is : can we work the tiles ? If there are too many tiles for a single city to work, then splitting the food makes a ton of sense. If a single city can work the tiles, then preparing this early for 1000 AD whipping is a no for me.
Double food cities can do great stuff and I value them highly. 6Fpt is acceptable, more is desirable.

edit : on the double fish city :
settling on the ivory is perfectly acceptable and gives a stronger start. I'm worried about unhealth, though, so I prefer the riverside spot. Maybe I'm wrong in that regard. I'm not sure claiming the 2 Elephants is necessary (not green tiles).

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Complement @t50 :

Spoiler :

Sailing vs Monarchy is the remaining question. It's likely that Sailing should be researched first,
If cities don't have relevant builds to dump hammers into.

Lighthouses are not high priority builds without the extra happiness but
we want to avoid dumping all hammers into warriors.

So, this map didn't exactly attract the masses, hum ? Maybe it was too straightforward compared with the others ?

 

[krikav]

Stuck with trying to finish some BOTM games.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Stuck with trying to finish some BOTM games.

A valiant endeavour, if there ever was one !

 

[CarpoolKaraoke]

So, this map didn't exactly attract the masses, hum ? Maybe it was too straightforward compared with the others ?

Getting banned by BUFFY

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Getting banned by BUFFY

That's worth voicing.
At least, now I can rest easy, since I know I didn't frighten you all with my awe inspiring 2 warriors fogbust plan

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Follow-up to 800 BC :

Spoiler :

First, I researched Sailing after Writing. I'm not waiting on Libraries, because Gondar wants its Lighthouse.
With 3 cities and 4 workers, Granaries setting up, the next order of priorities is Libraries and the first 2 are ready for t60 :

Spoiler :

I can start cottaging a little but, as you can tell by the northern workers positionning, chopping takes precedence.
The Library in Gondar was completed with : a max whip overflow from the Granary (hence improved ivory) and a chop. Library in Aksum comes from natural hammers - I did complete the worst Granary in that city (turn of growth) but, at least, it was then out of the way.
I have 3 warriors, at this point. 2 for Garrisons, 1 for fogbusting.
With only 3 ORG cities, maintenance is extremely low and I can raise the slider on t64 :

Spoiler :

Gondar regrew its pop and is starting to work on gpp. It will then start on a settler at happy cap.
Aksum could grow to 7 but it is already unhealthy. Now I want to claim the Crabs. I think the Pigs SW of Aksum are still not roaded and I'll send a worker do that, now the city has a decent number of cottaged tiles.

Spoiler :

4th city. Chop Workboat, Chop Granary. I'm not whipping very hard, as I want to preserve my pop count and tech pace.
With some extra health, Aksum resumes growth and prepares some Scouting/Garrison Warriors (nothing else to build, really).

T70, I research Pagan Temples and the game blesses me with an event ! An event, an event !

Spoiler :

I preferred the Truffles
City has some whip anger from the Granary. I'm growing it to 6 to start on a settler. It has just now become unhappy
I have some part turns on the ivory near Addis Ababa. It's possible I should have completed the camp. I'll work the unimproved tile some more while working towards the Granary.
Now, my 4 workers start to feel a little light.

Monarchy is done 1000 BC eot :

Spoiler :

So... I have settlers in the queues and some gold left to fund research : I choose to delay the revolt until I can do a double switch into Caste + HR.
Aksum grew to 7 and the extra warrior was sent scouting the southern coast. I'll have full knowledge of the island in a few turns.

Code of Laws turns out to be a 6 turns research (hence no HR revolt, again) :

Spoiler :

I let Aksum/Gondar grow into some unhappies. Now Aksum resumes settler duty, because a chop is incoming.
The timing on the Academy is a little awkward (no gold) but I think getting CoL earlier is better than maximizing the research bonus. I'll get the religion, too, for some free happies and some infrastructure to build. I'm running some Warriors to the north to equalize the happies a bit (Gondar certainly wants some) ; it's practically only Aksum that can contribute warriors.
I've dotmapped up to 8 cities, so my last settlers are in production. I'm still working from 4 workers only (1 worker -> 3 cities -> 4 workers -> 6 cities) and could now use a couple more.

I'm ready to revolt next turn. Tech path then goes Iron Working, Compass (health !), Metal Casting.
From here on, it's grow, grow, grow. Improving the green tiles West of Aksum is high priority but I couldn't do that with my limited workforce.
Some worker actions were a little mismanaged between Addis Ababa and Yeha (chopping too early vs adding the extra cottage ; improving a tile before it could be worked) but it doesn't make a significant difference. Maybe I'll simply chop the Granary in Yeha, then, so as to grow to 4 faster (avoiding a 2->1 whip). Addis Ababa did just that : no whipping the granary and it should let it work its tiles faster, given the extra chop.

1 AD situation :

Spoiler :

Rather straightforward turns. I researched IW then banked about 800 gold and turned up research again (I realized I don't have the hammers for Harbours while in Caste). Set up peripheral cities. Gondar works like 4 scientists the whole time and has produced all of my gpp (recently upped to 5 specs). No Confu revolt.

Spoiler :

No Agriculture, lotsa food --> cottages.





25 warriors. The peace is well kept. Some commerce growth potential with 30 tiles being Hamlets or Cottages. Went up to 8 workers to help improve the land. Our people would like grain to fill their granaries. Unhealth explains why Aksum isn't size 18 - Also I didn't really share the gold tile and prioritized growth in Yeha, contrary to what I was expecting.

I'll see where to go if I continue playing, depending on the AIs tech level. With all cottages and no farms (low prod), I kinda want to set up the Globe Theatre and go Drafting. Printing Press is a nice get on the way to Rifling.
I would welcome an uninhabited island to peacefully settle while I tech up.

Astereology :

Spoiler :

Held on to some trades. Starved Gondar 1 pop to gain a couple of turns towards my GS.
Traded Optics for Maths + Alpha last turn. Put a turn of research into Currency.
Traded Optics for Calendar + Currency this turn.





+70 beaker bump. The French had Optics already (tech leader), so no trades, there.

I put a turn into Civil Service...



Nice ! 420 bpt next turn, when I come out of revolt (Bureau + Slavery). Astro is such a revolution
I need a 4th exploring ship to go straight North or I could miss the last AI. My trade routes are maxed but I found a Barbarian Island

 

[soundjata]

Feeling like a good Astro date @BornInCantaloup

Swinging in those Galleons and settling unclaimed land is most often a losing proposition... I think.
Better focus on
1. Accelerating research further (grow moar)
2. Design a way to convert everything into hammers at some point (draft Oromos, rushbuy stuff)

Acquiring the Pyramids via war (Oromo) would be a cool way to enable Universal Suffering without having to wait for Democrazy.
I think you might have a proper amount of cottages to make US viable (requires a few banks and maybe a Confusion Shrine ?)

Step 1 : draft Oromos
Step 2 : take Mids
Step 3 : rushbuy stuff
Step 4 : take Kremlin
Step 5 : rushbuy more stuff
Step 6 : Buy a planet

Does not work if Mids / Kremlin are in the middle of Alaska though

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Confusion will be my epitaph... (... while I load settlers onto Galleons). You're quite right to point out that I haven't made proper plans for the future.
I haven't looked at the wonders' distribution, yet.

Drafting seems good ; I don't know about rushbuying. What if it costs me all my hard earned moneys ? You know how I like my science.
You mention more National Wonders, hum... I was a little hesitant to leave Caste (how do I get my Golden Age / Education bulb ?) but I think setting up the National Epic makes it worth. Wall Street down the line... that's an interesting one. Very expensive. I'll have to go back into Caste at some point. It's not clear I can win the Liberalism race because I didn't spread any of my gpp production (didn't look to deep but an AI has Paper).

Airships/Trebs/Rifles or

 

[soundjata]

Someone said Oromo rush

Spoiler :

dream is Frigates + Oromos + Maces... If you can double bulb Chemistry.
Otherwise insert trebuchets + more galleons...

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Someone said Oromo rush

Spoiler :

dream is Frigates + Oromos + Maces... If you can double bulb Chemistry.
Otherwise insert trebuchets + more galleons...

I think I like it better on the Low Sea map but it seems we all stopped playing at t130 (Krikav's 11 cities being in the lead).

I can see Emancipation + Universal Suffrage doing work but the problem is Democracy
The civics are good but the tech itself is not the way I want to enter the Renaissance - I need a military tech. Democracy is more of a Democracy-Steam Power-Scientific Method conundrum. The Statue is also miserable with 8 cities. I'd rather remain in Babarism for a while and be a happy family. I have all the Elephants and can trade the younger ones to make alliances with other dynasties.

Spoiler :

Go, my children, go ! I promise I'll come and visit you !

Trebuchets can bombard 16% a turn, compared with 12% for Cannons, I believe (didn't check), which makes them the better unit to bombard culture. Bombarding with Ships is fine, too. I know Oromo Warriors keep their promotions and all and we can spend thousands of golds to upgrade them all the way to Infantries but Printing Press is a much more appealing tech to me right now.
Steel gives Drydocks, which are excellent ; I don't care much about Chemistry before the AIs have ships. Otherwise, Cannons + Maces or Rifles + Trebs are comparable in my mind. I want the better eco tech path. And Airships + Galleons. A transition to Cavalries could be possible, here, since all the AIs I've met share the same continent.
Oromo Warriors, I know, are a shame not to use. It's really Printing Press that's tipping the scales.