Low Sea Zara (Deity Isolation)

[krikav]

Oooh, globe is certainly a thing with this gem of a capital. So more hammers to get that up quick is good.
Might have to build stoneless oxford too, but not sure oxford is worth it at all.
I don't think globe belongs in any city except for the capital here.
With globe in capital, we can leave HR at some point, and we will be able to have a huge capital while continuing to wage war in the lategame too.

Regarding PP, rifling or chemistry... We should not forget Oromo warriors! They are crazy and they make for good promotion material. So I would want to make some hits with those and that likely means going for chemistry.

 

[soundjata]

Oromo

My secret plan.

Don't disclose @krikav

 

[BornInCantaloup]

So, you say the Globe fights War Weariness, right ? Interesting. Keeping a happy size 25 Aksum is certainly appealing.
I had forgotten about Oromos. The Drill promotions stay, uh. And they are Draft material.
So, are we speaking Oromos/Trebs/Airships ? Beeline Mass Media, probably

 

[soundjata]

More like Oromos + Maces + Trebs imo (and maybe frigates) for the first strike
Then Cannons for strike 2

 

[BornInCantaloup]

The AIs tech level will be telling, what's possible or not. They can also be slowed down by these sorts of maps.

 

[soundjata]

Yay AIs...
They're all pacifists in my game No GG born.

 

[krikav]

I think I have gotten quite a nice T80 run now!

Tried to incorporate some neat ideas from multiple games here.
Production heavy start AH+BW from @BornInCantaloup , no 3E helper and no Agri from @CarpoolKaraoke and early silver from @soundjata.
Paired this with a desire for CoL of my own.

Spoiler T80 :

Went AH->BW->Fish->TW->Pot. Got out forward warriors early and left the scout in the far west, I think this manipulated the spawned barbs so that they marched toward Gondar in a more behaved order.

Confu did spawn in Lalibela, but I went back a turn and whipped it from 6->3 to get it in Gondar. Want the holy city as close to the center of the island as possible to maximize odds for natural spread.

This is probably an artifact of the production heavy start... Commerce is hard so did not feel I could go sailing to connect this. Two workers went with the settler to get the mine up, then 3 workers who finished cottaging in Gondar started roading.

Not 100% fogbusted from Galleys, and a nasty barb archer is still wandering about.
With CoL and org courthouses perhaps it's even possible to fill out the entire island pre-optics?
Have not thought the future through yet.. Beeline? Monarchy?

Encountered one spear which lost against Gondar @ 30% odds. Lost one forward warrior in a forest to an archer, and one archer got lucky against Gondar and killed another warrior. But did manage to get this done w/o archery.
In the very early game after worker->settler->worker, when I had 2 cities and two workers and the piggies where done, the workers did enter grassland hill forests and chopped the forest and then made a mine.
With the mines, it was easier to slow-build more settlers, and also to spam warriors on demand.

Gondar still haven't got a granary.

 

[krikav]

Spoiler T100 of that variant. :

After CoL, I went agriculture -> monarchy -> sailing.
The scout and two warriors teamed up to clear the last archer. Ofcourse two of them died.

11 cities are good. 12 is much worse since it adds to turns of anarchy when swapping civics.
Here I did the last few whips (did a 1pop of the lighthouse in eastern double-fish) and revolted to HR+Caste.

Will be fun to see how long time this variant takes to catch up, is an optics/astro in a reasonable time even possible...?
There is practically no GPP in any city, my rough idea was to keep working cottages in the northern older cities and let two strong food cities in the south work overtime with mass caste scientists to get the bulbers out.
Won't have any time to play until late tomorrow though.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

This is really nice.

Spoiler :

I've always hated on Iso maps as a solo player because bleh I mean, you dragged me into those like three maps ago and I probably never had researched Optics before.
I really appreciate how it allows to contrast and compare. And with 5 players, we get the full spectrum of plays. We still welcome others

Your run looks excellent at T80 with top tier research rate vs maintenance. I like how you proceed to go full on maintenance (11 cities) for science !
One thing I don't understand is why you go CoL -> Monarchy.
I can see CoL -> Beeline
But if you want both, why not research Monarchy first, so as to start growing Aksum ? Maybe I'm too focused on Aksum and you had other reasons.
I can see you liked T25 border pop -> improve 3rd pigs, though


It's fine starting toying with the map and all and improving runs but I think we shouldn't discount and forget about CPK's excellent quickrun from the first page.
If you're intent on replaying the start, please try some T48 Oracle. I can't say the date can be improved but the micro is not very hard, I'm sure you'll figure it out. Hint : 2nd chop goes into whipped worker. I laid out the baseline in post 4 ; it was a little off but not that far (settler whip requires <70H, not <40H). It might not be able to compete with your bpt but it's an interesting experience to 1 turn the Oracle.

On the map :
Gondar, as much as Aksum, makes the map.
Gondar is such a strong defensive position with peaks, hill, and culture, and all improved tiles are behind.
I'm not sure it's even a stake to fogbust the south before we're ready to improve Gondar's floodplains.

 

[CarpoolKaraoke]

This is really nice.

Spoiler :

I've always hated on Iso maps as a solo player because bleh I mean, you dragged me into those like three maps ago and I probably never had researched Optics before.
I really appreciate how it allows to contrast and compare. And with 5 players, we get the full spectrum of plays. We still welcome others

Your run looks excellent at T80 with top tier research rate vs maintenance. I like how you proceed to go full on maintenance (11 cities) for science !
One thing I don't understand is why you go CoL -> Monarchy.
I can see CoL -> Beeline
But if you want both, why not research Monarchy first, so as to start growing Aksum ? Maybe I'm too focused on Aksum and you had other reasons.
I can see you liked T25 border pop -> improve 3rd pigs, though


It's fine starting toying with the map and all and improving runs but I think we shouldn't discount and forget about CPK's excellent quickrun from the first page.
If you're intent on replaying the start, please try some T48 Oracle. I can't say the date can be improved but the micro is not very hard, I'm sure you'll figure it out. Hint : 2nd chop goes into whipped worker. I laid out the baseline in post 4 ; it was a little off but not that far (settler whip requires <70H, not <40H). It might not be able to compete with your bpt but it's an interesting experience to 1 turn the Oracle.

On the map :
Gondar, as much as Aksum, makes the map.
Gondar is such a strong defensive position with peaks, hill, and culture, and all improved tiles are behind.
I'm not sure it's even a stake to fogbust the south before we're ready to improve Gondar's floodplains.

Spoiler T115 Re-run :

I really liked the Oracle, Monarchy, Writing idea, but it took me 2 tries to understand how to a) funnel the barbarians to Gondar and b) figure out how to gain enough gold without BUFFY. I present you:


Tech path: Fishing, Animal Husbandry, Bronze Working, Mysticism --> Priesthood --- > Monarchy (T51) --> Writing --> The Wheel --> Pottery (T71) ---> Optics.

Worker, Workboat, Warrior, Settler at size 3
Worker: Mine Pig, work fish tile 1 turn, wait 1 turn, build Pasture, wait 1 turn, build Mine, build 2nd city Pasture.

T51: Completed the double whip into triple chop

With fishing, can get T62 Writing, which leads to:

T71: Pottery is back on the menu. Excess warriors head out to fog bust.

T82: Thanks to writing first, Aksum receives an Academy on T82, and without the burden of rushing to Monarchy, I can save 215 gold to fuel into Academy.

Fought double the amount of barbarians, and lost 3 more warriors than previously, but it's completely worth it.

T115: Due to the reverse order of Writing, The Wheel, Pottery, my settle spots look a bit different. I also tech agriculture after Pottery.

With early Metal Casting, Colossus fail gold becomes an option again. Even without it arriving early, the net benefit of Oracle --> Monarchy --> Writing is about 4-5 turns off my Optics and Astronomy time.

 

[sampsa]

Damn, never would've guessed 2-city Oracle returns one day!

 

[krikav]

Nice Oracle run!
Not at comp until tonight so cannot analyze.

Why I want CoL first? To be more fair. Getting confu at t80 is aceptable. Getting it late T90s is bordering cheese territory for me.

 

[soundjata]

T130 Astro
(fog of war and AIs unspoiled)

Spoiler :

Commerce jumps from 140 to 215!

After Optics I self teched Math + Myst + Poly + Priesthood.
Traded for Alpha, Aesthetics, CoL, Currency and Monarchy, with stuff like Compass, MC and Machinery.


Optics monopoly is about to break (someone is just few away)
I can buy a map and circumnavigate this turn.

Did the double switch into HR and Caste (nice "11 cities" tip @someone) so as to starve down Lalibela for the last scientist (save 4 turns)

Resources available


We need to wait 3 turns for the next civic switch (just Bureau probably)

Diplomacy looks good. There are wars

Oromo we go

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Why I want CoL first? To be more fair. Getting confu at t80 is aceptable. Getting it late T90s is bordering cheese territory for me.

I see, thanks for answering. Confu has some value.

CarpoolKaraoke :

Spoiler :

Yes, getting Fishing first is indeed a way to get the commerce we need ! Working the fish adds up quickly. T51 is still in the safer kind of zone. It definitely speeds up all the backfilling post-Oracle.
I think it's also conceivable to insert Fishing in between Bronze and Mysticism (I almost did that, almost - but it is a delay towards The Oracle... and getting that wonder is certainly a racing situation - so I didn't do that). That would still let you settler Gondar asap, which is sort of a big deal.

Funneling barbs happens naturally if/when we fogbust the Western area, which we can do with scout + warrior. Another warrior to secure the Eastern desert tiles completes the job.
i.e. happens when we control the sides.

Aren't you playing with BUG installed ? I swear you can get gold with excess overflow.
I would almost never do it but Isolation is a special case (and so is going broke).
Oh... Maybe you need BUG+BULL. BULL has very little but extremely important features : most notably, Workers stop before chopping. They pre-chop and stop. Very convenient.

Very nice job overall, growing Aksum back to giganormous sizes

Soundjata :

Spoiler :

Your tech situation seems extremely favourable, this is boding well !

 

[CarpoolKaraoke]

Aren't you playing with BUG installed ?

No, I just added the Blue Marble art pack.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Why I want CoL first? To be more fair. Getting confu at t80 is aceptable. Getting it late T90s is bordering cheese territory for me.

Cheesing... You're not mincing your words. That's harsh
Me cheesing my way at T85 :

Spoiler :

Libraries have been set up. Gondar has started working on some gpp but I'll need a Caste switch to speed up the first dude.
I can now 1 turn Agriculture, which I'll probably do. Aksum has 5 warriors and 5 unhealth.
Compass (Harbour) is the next priority tech. Requires Sailing and Iron Working.
I have a 6th worker, now, who's starting to road random tiles in the south. 1 turn into a settler in Lalibela. I'm not quite sure about the settling order, there. I think I want more health and am better set to claim fish/deer first.
Yeha has been... let's say the city is very shy and not very vocal about asking help from our workers.

Final question is when do I revolt into Caste (not now) and how do I go about my GPs ?
Academy, Philosophy bulb, Golden Age How to order that ? Maybe it's Caste, Golden Age, Philo bulb, Academy. That saves on anarchy and makes use of Aksum's gpp+high pop.

T82 is the turn

Spoiler :

CarpoolKaraoke builds his academy and I start working on scientists

 

[soundjata]

@BornInCantaloup I'd say Academy can wait. It's more of a bonus (but you got another one) than a necessity really.

Edit: Maybe Astro is not the beeline you need idk.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Yes, I agree, I think the Academy comes last. And I need to save my pop, which is a little awkward with only the 5 cities and need for settlers.

Edit: Maybe Astro is not the beeline you need idk.

Let me guess, Divine Right ?
You mean Maths/Civil Service. It's certainly worth considering but I think Astro is likely better. You showed resources trades, remember ? It's a big deal, raising caps all around. Also, I'm not working Villages, I'm working Hamlets and Cottages at the moment
Also, with a lock on Confusionism and Tao, Liberalism is close to guaranteed, so there's no need to rush it. It would be different if we had easy Universities/Oxford, because then Education would be a real draw.
I wonder if I can send a Great Merchant on a Caravel, hum... that's a thought

 

[soundjata]

I mean the way you are already turbocharging research (and GP creation through pacifism) you might end up in a position where you have to stall research because Astro bulb is not ready and you can't research Civil Service (as it breaks the Astro bulb)

But maybe i'm under-estimating the number of GP you can collect in the next ~50 turns

Edit @great merchant on a caravel, I think I did that on Monty Island. (and TOA was so close ^^)
Not on the initial caravel wave. Gold is available aplenty through trades at this point in time (and AIs are likely to casually demand 999 a few turns after contact.)
Good on a second wave, when one is in beeline steel / i don't trade mode.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

I mean the way you are already turbocharging research (and GP creation through pacifism) you might end up in a position where you have to stall research because Astro bulb is not ready and you can't research Civil Service (as it breaks the Astro bulb)

Turbocharging ? I like how you see things. Is it illegal to put research into Astronomy ? Worst case it comes to that. I agree I may have difficulties with but I wouldn't be too worried about having too much research...
I've played some more, setting up some Lighthouses, 3 settlers and now ready to research Iron Working.
T91 :

Spoiler :

I'll stop there for today, this may be the turn I revolt into Caste.
But first, T85 Aksum or why the Academy isn't a priority :

Spoiler :

Being deep into unhealth and working mines + less developped cottages. The Eastern helper holds most of the floodplains. I haven't whipped that city once and I want it to keep growing.
So, Aksum has pop and it will be getting infrastructure, but it isn't the commerce heaven you would think.
At this point, because unhealth, I even insert a 5 turns settler into Aksum's queue. I have the techs, I need to backfill.

Next, I had forgotten we had cheap Lighthouses, so it came as a surprise when I realized I could 1 turn them with overflow from Granary/Settler :

Spoiler :

A few things, here. Gondar will be happy at size 8 with 3 warriors. Addis Abeba will be happy at size 7 with 2 warriors (and a settler will be chopped).
It is, in fact, legal to stack warriors outside the capital
I have 2 workers south of Lalibela and some part roads to the south.
I've started to road south of Gondar but a barb archer is blocking my way. Maybe I'll get an axeman.

This is my updated dotmap :

Spoiler :

I initially wanted to settle pigs/copper by the coast but this claims the most forests/tiles.
Workboat is in position, so I'll settle fish/deer first, maybe hire an artist. I could use a 3rd worker in this area, spread between 2 cities. The abundance of forests will be nice to set up infra.
I believe I am barb galley free.

This is the north :

Spoiler :

I used my missionary in Aksum. That + Sailing has unlocked us some nice infrastructure to build. If we go Caste, I likely start with a Lighthouse, here. Otherwise it's a warrior.

Well, actually, I know I'm not whipping, here... So I should have gone Caste after the last whips, so I could revolt into Pacifism earlier. Hopefully it doesn't block me. That was an oversight. If you don't whip, BiC, revolt earlier

Save is attached, if you wanna have a peek.

 

[soundjata]

can't peek at these buffy protected files T_T

as a benchmark my T91 : slightly more research but less population I think.