Low Sea Zara (Deity Isolation)

[krikav]

I just glanced very quick, and I do think that a production heavy approach is the way to go, BUT it need to be paired with a hard pivot toward pottery. Not sure where and how to squeeze in agriculture (if at all).
Maybe @CarpoolKaraoke 's approach of refraining from the helper 3W of capital is good.
That helper has trouble growing since it's kind of dependant on the flooplains for growth, so it can only grow the turns you run 0% slider (since academy in capital).

Heatwave here right now, very hard to think... I have lost the autosaves from the production heavy approach too, forgot to backup before loading another game.

Here is the autosave from turn astro in my first run (and a save from turn optics), in case you want to compare notes.
I just opened it and I'm appaled by some city placements so don't think I will go with that one further...

Will probably go for a swim now and see if I can play on with a cooler head tonight.
You settled on the ivory BiC? That saves some worker turns, but you can make camps in the jungle too for happines in case you didn't know (it was a suprise for me first time I saw it).

 

[krikav]

Appreciate all the company on the map btw, just the kind of activity I was looking for.
Hope to reach some post-astro setup thats interesting enough to play on with too. Hoping for some behemoth AI that would be a fun challenge to tackle.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

hard pivot toward pottery. Not sure where and how to squeeze in agriculture (if at all).

Yes, if at all. Agriculture is outrageously expensive. Without any discounts, it's like 1/5th of Code of Laws.
Thanks for the feedback, seems reasonable

You settled on the ivory BiC? That saves some worker turns, but you can make camps in the jungle too for happines in case you didn't know (it was a suprise for me first time I saw it).

Yes, I'm not fond of the city 3W. I don't think it gets enough tiles to work after cities grow. On the ivory, it can work the dyes and all the coast around it, maybe eventually build the Moai Statues. Aksum has plenty of helpers as it is.
(I do know about jungle camps, yes, thank you )

edit : I realize you meant 3E and the heatwave had you write 3W.
I can see 3W1N or on the ivory as better options than 3W (I'd rather work a cottage than the ivory tile itself).
If Agriculture is not researched at all (+2 health, still), then indeed the city 3E loses a lot of value. That, in turn, adds value to a stronger western helper.

Edit: wait, hang on. How about writing immediately after Monarchy? There's no point in a metropolis if there's no academy in it

I just saw that. Do you mean with my tech path ? Researching Writing off AH + Priesthood ? I agree getting the late Academy is a shame but I don't think it would work. Hopefully, CoL can make up for it, somewhat.
At that point I have 3 workers, Bronze working, no other relevant tech. Getting to Pottery is crucial to avoid crashing (and I think I came pretty close).
I am usually pretty big on avoiding the crash. This is my favourite example. (Probably a case of delayed BW.)

 

[soundjata]

T116

Spoiler :

Two triremes out. I can upgrade one of both in 3 turns.
Left or Right?

Adulis shall also whip & double chop a worker for 79 overflow into another caravel.
It's currently working 2 cottages because @sampsa

Gondar & Lalibela are synched up on GS production so Astro +18T

Edit: currently working all improved tiles except a few farms, fish boats and mines.
10 citizens are being scientists.

Good ratio on Zara vs Barba fights I reckon. My luck is exceptional

 

[BornInCantaloup]

That's a very nice pace, Soundjata.

Spoiler :

I don't know about Left or Right but your Scout can be loaded Left in 4 turns.

 

[soundjata]

Aksum destiny (late game plans)

So Aksum is destined to be a gigantinormous bureaucratic capitol. Alright.
For the remaining tiles that are still forested at the moment, I'm thinking >
Capitol will gladly build mucho buildings and units.

Spoiler :

How would you leverage such beauty?

 

[krikav]

@soundjata That looks absolutely lovely!
Nice optics run!

Since you have that worker whip and chop loaded ready for a caravel in the westward direction, I would prioritize upgrading the left trireme first to possibly reach circumnavigation faster.
The third caravel would move northwards since we are placed southwards on the map (tundra/deer etc reveals so much).

Regarding capital... I don't know tbh. We don't have any stone/marble, so maybe lategame wonders are also off the table? Still, I think I would likely prioritize mines above cottages on the rest. Replacing with windmills later. This hilly capital might even make enviromentalism an option.

*edit* Save forests for crucial builds and wait with them untill you have the burocracy bonus. */edit*

 

[soundjata]

@Caravels. Yes I'm thinking
1. West
2. North
3. East with the scout. He's stuck fogbusting atm

Edit:
@Late game wonders. Maybe Globe Theater is a thing...
We don't need marblestone for that
Ironworks ?

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Spoiler :

There's iron on that tile, lol

Assuming Bureau + Forge (could get better with OR)
0 mine : 13 + 6 = 19 +4 = 23 hammers
1 mine : 15 + 7 = 22 +5 = 27 hammers
2 mines : 17 + 8 = 25 +8 = 33 hammers

Usually, with 12+ hammers and the food to make it work, I'd just cottage it all but, I don't know. Maybe it's worth it to mine until University + Observatory are set up.
The second mine seems to be a really big bump. (Please remember Commerce is multiplied in the same way.)

We're CRE, have Dye. Are we drafting Rifles with Globe Theatre in Pigs/Wheat city ?
Printing Press seems a lot better than Chemistry, here.

Edit:

Exactly !

 

[krikav]

Oooh, globe is certainly a thing with this gem of a capital. So more hammers to get that up quick is good.
Might have to build stoneless oxford too, but not sure oxford is worth it at all.
I don't think globe belongs in any city except for the capital here.
With globe in capital, we can leave HR at some point, and we will be able to have a huge capital while continuing to wage war in the lategame too.

Regarding PP, rifling or chemistry... We should not forget Oromo warriors! They are crazy and they make for good promotion material. So I would want to make some hits with those and that likely means going for chemistry.

 

[soundjata]

Oromo

My secret plan.

Don't disclose @krikav

 

[BornInCantaloup]

So, you say the Globe fights War Weariness, right ? Interesting. Keeping a happy size 25 Aksum is certainly appealing.
I had forgotten about Oromos. The Drill promotions stay, uh. And they are Draft material.
So, are we speaking Oromos/Trebs/Airships ? Beeline Mass Media, probably

 

[soundjata]

More like Oromos + Maces + Trebs imo (and maybe frigates) for the first strike
Then Cannons for strike 2

 

[BornInCantaloup]

The AIs tech level will be telling, what's possible or not. They can also be slowed down by these sorts of maps.

 

[soundjata]

Yay AIs...
They're all pacifists in my game No GG born.

 

[krikav]

I think I have gotten quite a nice T80 run now!

Tried to incorporate some neat ideas from multiple games here.
Production heavy start AH+BW from @BornInCantaloup , no 3E helper and no Agri from @CarpoolKaraoke and early silver from @soundjata.
Paired this with a desire for CoL of my own.

Spoiler T80 :

Went AH->BW->Fish->TW->Pot. Got out forward warriors early and left the scout in the far west, I think this manipulated the spawned barbs so that they marched toward Gondar in a more behaved order.

Confu did spawn in Lalibela, but I went back a turn and whipped it from 6->3 to get it in Gondar. Want the holy city as close to the center of the island as possible to maximize odds for natural spread.

This is probably an artifact of the production heavy start... Commerce is hard so did not feel I could go sailing to connect this. Two workers went with the settler to get the mine up, then 3 workers who finished cottaging in Gondar started roading.

Not 100% fogbusted from Galleys, and a nasty barb archer is still wandering about.
With CoL and org courthouses perhaps it's even possible to fill out the entire island pre-optics?
Have not thought the future through yet.. Beeline? Monarchy?

Encountered one spear which lost against Gondar @ 30% odds. Lost one forward warrior in a forest to an archer, and one archer got lucky against Gondar and killed another warrior. But did manage to get this done w/o archery.
In the very early game after worker->settler->worker, when I had 2 cities and two workers and the piggies where done, the workers did enter grassland hill forests and chopped the forest and then made a mine.
With the mines, it was easier to slow-build more settlers, and also to spam warriors on demand.

Gondar still haven't got a granary.

 

[krikav]

Spoiler T100 of that variant. :

After CoL, I went agriculture -> monarchy -> sailing.
The scout and two warriors teamed up to clear the last archer. Ofcourse two of them died.

11 cities are good. 12 is much worse since it adds to turns of anarchy when swapping civics.
Here I did the last few whips (did a 1pop of the lighthouse in eastern double-fish) and revolted to HR+Caste.

Will be fun to see how long time this variant takes to catch up, is an optics/astro in a reasonable time even possible...?
There is practically no GPP in any city, my rough idea was to keep working cottages in the northern older cities and let two strong food cities in the south work overtime with mass caste scientists to get the bulbers out.
Won't have any time to play until late tomorrow though.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

This is really nice.

Spoiler :

I've always hated on Iso maps as a solo player because bleh I mean, you dragged me into those like three maps ago and I probably never had researched Optics before.
I really appreciate how it allows to contrast and compare. And with 5 players, we get the full spectrum of plays. We still welcome others

Your run looks excellent at T80 with top tier research rate vs maintenance. I like how you proceed to go full on maintenance (11 cities) for science !
One thing I don't understand is why you go CoL -> Monarchy.
I can see CoL -> Beeline
But if you want both, why not research Monarchy first, so as to start growing Aksum ? Maybe I'm too focused on Aksum and you had other reasons.
I can see you liked T25 border pop -> improve 3rd pigs, though


It's fine starting toying with the map and all and improving runs but I think we shouldn't discount and forget about CPK's excellent quickrun from the first page.
If you're intent on replaying the start, please try some T48 Oracle. I can't say the date can be improved but the micro is not very hard, I'm sure you'll figure it out. Hint : 2nd chop goes into whipped worker. I laid out the baseline in post 4 ; it was a little off but not that far (settler whip requires <70H, not <40H). It might not be able to compete with your bpt but it's an interesting experience to 1 turn the Oracle.

On the map :
Gondar, as much as Aksum, makes the map.
Gondar is such a strong defensive position with peaks, hill, and culture, and all improved tiles are behind.
I'm not sure it's even a stake to fogbust the south before we're ready to improve Gondar's floodplains.

 

[CarpoolKaraoke]

This is really nice.

Spoiler :

I've always hated on Iso maps as a solo player because bleh I mean, you dragged me into those like three maps ago and I probably never had researched Optics before.
I really appreciate how it allows to contrast and compare. And with 5 players, we get the full spectrum of plays. We still welcome others

Your run looks excellent at T80 with top tier research rate vs maintenance. I like how you proceed to go full on maintenance (11 cities) for science !
One thing I don't understand is why you go CoL -> Monarchy.
I can see CoL -> Beeline
But if you want both, why not research Monarchy first, so as to start growing Aksum ? Maybe I'm too focused on Aksum and you had other reasons.
I can see you liked T25 border pop -> improve 3rd pigs, though


It's fine starting toying with the map and all and improving runs but I think we shouldn't discount and forget about CPK's excellent quickrun from the first page.
If you're intent on replaying the start, please try some T48 Oracle. I can't say the date can be improved but the micro is not very hard, I'm sure you'll figure it out. Hint : 2nd chop goes into whipped worker. I laid out the baseline in post 4 ; it was a little off but not that far (settler whip requires <70H, not <40H). It might not be able to compete with your bpt but it's an interesting experience to 1 turn the Oracle.

On the map :
Gondar, as much as Aksum, makes the map.
Gondar is such a strong defensive position with peaks, hill, and culture, and all improved tiles are behind.
I'm not sure it's even a stake to fogbust the south before we're ready to improve Gondar's floodplains.

Spoiler T115 Re-run :

I really liked the Oracle, Monarchy, Writing idea, but it took me 2 tries to understand how to a) funnel the barbarians to Gondar and b) figure out how to gain enough gold without BUFFY. I present you:


Tech path: Fishing, Animal Husbandry, Bronze Working, Mysticism --> Priesthood --- > Monarchy (T51) --> Writing --> The Wheel --> Pottery (T71) ---> Optics.

Worker, Workboat, Warrior, Settler at size 3
Worker: Mine Pig, work fish tile 1 turn, wait 1 turn, build Pasture, wait 1 turn, build Mine, build 2nd city Pasture.

T51: Completed the double whip into triple chop

With fishing, can get T62 Writing, which leads to:

T71: Pottery is back on the menu. Excess warriors head out to fog bust.

T82: Thanks to writing first, Aksum receives an Academy on T82, and without the burden of rushing to Monarchy, I can save 215 gold to fuel into Academy.

Fought double the amount of barbarians, and lost 3 more warriors than previously, but it's completely worth it.

T115: Due to the reverse order of Writing, The Wheel, Pottery, my settle spots look a bit different. I also tech agriculture after Pottery.

With early Metal Casting, Colossus fail gold becomes an option again. Even without it arriving early, the net benefit of Oracle --> Monarchy --> Writing is about 4-5 turns off my Optics and Astronomy time.

 

[sampsa]

Damn, never would've guessed 2-city Oracle returns one day!