Dang now i lost my train of thought what i was going to ask you
How is discussing changes to my traits offtopic in a thread that I made specifically to discuss my traits?
ls612's Traits
- Thread starter ls612
- Start date
How is discussing changes to my traits offtopic in a thread that I made specifically to discuss my traits?
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
How is discussing changes to my traits offtopic in a thread that I made specifically to discuss my traits?
It was something else OTHER than traits that i wanted to discuss, i made a multi response, and put that in before i made a long paragraph to TB, thats how. . .
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Simple as it is, its still a change in the files and that's something most players won't do. So if we want to design alternative Trait sets or Unit or Promotion definitions such as I need for the Combat Mod, then without this system, most players will never even try those alternative sets since it requires manipulation of the files, searching through the file structures to find where to toggle etc... This is easy for you and the rest of the mod team but not so much for players, so it makes the efforts to create alternatives like these a bit moot since they would be far less likely to ever be played without this method.
That's not changed at all. All that is changed is we're giving players the option to change the way they are playing without having to change the files. ls612 would prefer to keep these option sets in modules purely so that they can be more easily organized, found, edited etc... The purpose of it being in a module otherwise has nothing to do with whether its on by default or not. That's a matter of the default setting in the game options file.Oh well, now i am going to get very confused and i am sure ALOT of others are also now, because your changing the face of modules, from 1 for loading to is it loaded or NOT??Im just sayin'
By loading the module, we are not enforcing that the option is put to use, only that it is available for use. I had suggested not doing these in modules at all, as the alternative sets can be just as easily included in the core, but ls612 convinced me that for organization's sake, we probably should make them modular.
Problem with the BUG area is its not very well established for multi-players (can easily create problems in multi-play - even on the multi-player games we've had some issues with them spontaneously changing and being difficult to change back) and I'm not fond of most options being able to toggle on or off in-game. I personally feel that most options should be set and unchangeable at the beginning of the game so the rules can't change in the middle of play. There are some few exceptions to this rule though...
I'd like to find a way to help us organize our game options a bit better, yes, but since the main screen is so driven by the exe and/or python, its out of my realm of ability. Would be nice to categorize the options and have them grouped according to those categories at least!
Koshling, nothing. DH seems to think we already can do this somehow even though previously we could not. AIAndy offered to set this up previously due to recognizing and understanding the frustrations we were having without this functionality, and in his absence I worked out a solution but since returning he's got some adjustments he's making to the coding structure so that it won't cost the processing any additional time on longer lists than Traits.
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
OK i am going to trust you'll on this, but what happens to the Gameoption, if i change the 1 to 0 in the MLF? I dont like it, but, if its a better way, i cant refuse it (I guess)
OK i am going to trust you'll on this, but what happens to the Gameoption, if i change the 1 to 0 in the MLF? I dont like it, but, if its a better way, i cant refuse it (I guess)
If you turn the MLF off then the gameoption will not work. I do not know if it will handle that gracefully or if it will fail noisily.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
It would handle it gracefully. It would simply be then referring to the original set. Since the game load process is where it'll check for option edits (and not the mod load process) it'd be that the game OPTION is still on but there's nothing there to replace the originals with.
The gameoption itself must be defined in the core (which it is) or it would throw off the enumerations assumptions if the definition of the option itself was in modular format and turned off - would make the game incompatible.
The gameoption itself must be defined in the core (which it is) or it would throw off the enumerations assumptions if the definition of the option itself was in modular format and turned off - would make the game incompatible.
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
How is discussing changes to my traits offtopic in a thread that I made specifically to discuss my traits?
OK i finally remembered what i wanted to ask since i didnt see a speed thread:
Since so many people are complaining about Deity being to easy?? How about making it twice the value which it currently is then??
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Making what twice the value? Are you suggesting to modify the amounts needed to earn the next trait on Developing Leaders based on game difficulty level? Might not be a bad idea there!
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
Everything involved with Deity gameplay wise.
OK i finally remembered what i wanted to ask since i didnt see a speed thread:
Since so many people are complaining about Deity being to easy?? How about making it twice the value which it currently is then??
People complaining about deity being too easy are mostly on V28. It's MUCH harder in the current SVN (largely because early on the AIs are no longer crippled by it)
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
1) You can't reload the python - many modules can't handle it.
2) have you taken into consideration that some modules have both an XML and a Python module? Turning on an option in the MLF does not necessarily really turn on the option. An example of this is Orion Veteran's Immigration mod, the XML defines the unit but the Python provides the code including the AI. Both need to be turned on/off at the same time. Same for Platyping's and The_J's mods.
2) have you taken into consideration that some modules have both an XML and a Python module? Turning on an option in the MLF does not necessarily really turn on the option. An example of this is Orion Veteran's Immigration mod, the XML defines the unit but the Python provides the code including the AI. Both need to be turned on/off at the same time. Same for Platyping's and The_J's mods.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
So YOUR AI optimizationsare taking care of this then?
I can confirm that his AI changes have made deity much harder. I may even need go down a difficulty level because of it.
OK, so back on topic now what does anyone think of the new traits? Remember that you can enable them in your current game (I posted how to in the SVN thread). I need balance feedback on these to make them the best set of traits available.
@Thunderbrd: Could you please add XML to your option to make it mutually exclusive with mine? I could do it but I'm not clear on the syntax and so an example would be nice.
@Thunderbrd: Could you please add XML to your option to make it mutually exclusive with mine? I could do it but I'm not clear on the syntax and so an example would be nice.
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12242793&postcount=5255
sorry but i am not messin' with no python stuff. . .
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Must be hidden then??OK just found it 3 pages back
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12242793&postcount=5255
sorry but i am not messin' with no python stuff. . .
I have to agree here especially as it does not say what happens if I save a game then come back to it latter. Will I have to go through the same process or is that option saved? What happens if I am running two games one with and one with out?
I am assuming that this is not the final way these are going to be turned on and off.
It will save it assuming you save the game afterwards. If you load a new game it will not carry over, same as if you have two games with different options.
As for sorting out stats a modifier recalc should handle all of that. I've tried it and it works great.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
No problem. Only one or the other needs to establish the incompatibility. Its very easy and I'd love to go in and do to provide an example if nothing more. It'll still be a while before my option is activated though so there's an issue of the message that needs to go into your option's help file when it is finally made ready for play. What file do you use for your texts? I'll edit it as needed at the appropriate time.
Understand that the method he's giving you to turn on the option after a game has already been in progress is a hack that can be used to turn on ANY game option. You wouldn't want to do it usually but he offered the method so you could test it if you didn't want to start a new game to do so. I'd suggest just starting a new game to test his traits if you're looking to try them out. That is most definitely NOT the normal way to activate his, or any other, game option. Normally it'd be set at the beginning of a Custom Game, just like the rest of them, and then remain consistent for the scope of that game.
My wife points out that when a player has multiple games going it can be very helpful to not have to switch the MLF files each time you want to go back to a different game that has different settings for the sake of playing differently. This is particularly true when you have a multi-player game with someone else in the home (or out) and are playing a differing game with different settings as a single player game. Forget to update the files from one game to the next and you create problems for yourself. Just another of the very many reasons the GameOption Edits system was implemented.
But yeah, his expressed method is a game option hack, not the normal way to turn on his trait set.
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
Does your traits have any negative traits listed?? I dont see any??
Yes, look for TRAIT_LS612_ANTI_CLERICAL in the XML, that is where they start.
