LuckNES2: The Fatal Balance
- Thread starter Luckymoose
- Start date
So for 16 EP she got divisions at full quality? Or 1 quality less? If they came in at full quality, that's a 1/3 discount, or at 1 less it's a 1/5 discount, and that ignores the usual loss of at least 1 training level for building so many in one turn. That's a pretty hefty discount.
The Major
Warlord
Personally, i don't think complaining about things that have happened is useful in any way. It's not going to change anything, and its just going to leave bad feelings with everyone... How about we all just get over what we think should have happened & let moose do his stuff. Also comparing things to real life just isn't feasible since this isn't real life... So lets all just kick back and let moose do his thing.
(If you are all complaining about how the projects are unfair, why don't you just do it yourself to even it out...)
ps. You are doing a kickass job in my opinion moose....
(If you are all complaining about how the projects are unfair, why don't you just do it yourself to even it out...)
ps. You are doing a kickass job in my opinion moose....
I'm not complaining; I'm not Germany, so it's not hurting me (yet?). But that's a heck of a discount, especially if you factor in levels lost for growing too fast. Suppose you built 80 divisions in the normal fashion, and had 80 to start with. Now if I were mod I'd be inclined to take 2 training levels off, but let's just say that one training level was taken off. So you pay 16 EP for units, 8 for training the new units to your original level, and 8 to restore your original level for all your units because of the growth penalty. That's 32 EP. So according to my model she got those units for half price.
Now, obviously these decisions are Moose's, and he's free to do what he wants; he is doing a good job, so he's earned the discretion. I just think he made a bad decision here.
Now, obviously these decisions are Moose's, and he's free to do what he wants; he is doing a good job, so he's earned the discretion. I just think he made a bad decision here.
Cuivienen
Deity
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2003
- Messages
- 8,011
Troops: 16 EPs (16 EPs at 5 troops/EP = 80 troops)
Training: 4 EPs (4 EPs at 20 troops/EP/level = 80 troops up one level)
Stories: -4 EPs (not in-thread)
Project: 16+4-4 = 16 EPs, what I paid. No discount at all (or a 1/5 discount if you consider stories a discount)
Edit: Nothing in the rules indicates anything beyond mod discretion as to when or how troops training falls due to more troops trained (and I never understood that, given that, in reality, the old troops aren't going to fall in quality because there are new troops).
IIRC troops come in at 2 levels below standard. As to the second objection, adding large numbers of troops is a massive stress on the military, with training and housing facilities, logistics departments, and officer corps all stretched. The old units might lose officers and NCOs to training schools, the needs of existing units will be poorly cared for, the command structure will become bloated and unwieldy during the adjustment period, etc. And the fall in training is one way to model this.
Luckymoose
The World is Mine
I do not know.
I must have deleted them when doing orders. It's ok the stats are the same generally as the start of the nes. One second.Glad people are respecting my decisions finally. Least space aliens haven't come down and conquered Russia or something.
alex994
Hail Divine Emperor!
OOC: I accept your decision, but I oppose your obviously Irish based avatar 
EDIT: And I do apologize silver, my lack of knowledge about India during this period is quite blatant
EDIT: And I do apologize silver, my lack of knowledge about India during this period is quite blatant
Insane_Panda
Deity
France, during the revolution, conscripted an army of 700,000 soldiers in the space of 2-3 years.
Insane_Panda
Deity
Your points on Germany, first and foremost, are wrong. France was outnumbered in 1806, and Germany, though disunited, was not fighting internally. The unity of Germany did in no way hinder Napoleon's progress - he had to cross the same amount of land and fought the same amount of soldiers regardless. Had Germany been united, it would have gone the same way. Napoleon crossed the rhine, with an army half as large as the German force, and defeated them utterly. Note, in this invasion, the army was twice as large as the Germans. Furthermore, I hardly doubt the tactics of Napoleon would be in widespread use - the allies tried to, on occasion, copy such tactics, but the fact still stands that Napoleon was head and shoulders above the rest. Furthermore, guess who is leading Cuiv's armies? That's right. Napoleon. Germany's size is irrelevant - the size seized and invaded is equal to the size which Napoleon seized in 1806, if not less (for in 1806, he seized Berlin too!). Germany's leadership and training was comparable to France, but so too it was in 1806 (though leadership was not up to snuff). This time, however, Germany is also grossly outnumbered. Also, Germany, in this era, is hardly the "most martial state" - perhaps instead of using vague terms such as that, you would actually look at the stats. France, in this NES, is larger, stronger, and its forces are the same if not better trained. Germany, during this period of its history, was also not up to snuff - it was good, but again, not as good as France. It did not truly become a military behemoth until around the mid 19th century. Do note that technological progress in this NES is somewhat faster, and Europe has functioning railroads. This simply improves the speed at which the French armies move, thus allowing Germany to be smashed even quicker.
Again, on your points about Army size - it is not at all unrealistic. In 1793 Revolutionary France, 300,000 troops were added to the army in the Levée en Masse to make a total of some 645,000. By 1794, the army ballooned to 1,500,000 - with a fighting force of about 800,000 soldiers. These troops, though they were recruited through conscription (as are most armies of this period), were hardly a bunch of rabble; The French armies were of superior training and elan, and defeated Austrian and Prussian armies time and time again in both the Austrian Netherlands and in Northern Italy. Point: Look at the history, its not at all unrealistic.
Finally, to your points about Germanicus being overwhelmed: well, life sucks. Maybe if he didn't choose a nation right next to the expansionistic Symphony, then he wouldn't have died so quickly. NESing is not a level playing field - you either get up to snuff, or you die. NESing is a game. You excell at the game through being skilled, not through complaining when someone who is better than you beats you. If Germanicus is beaten this early - all the better. It will teach him a thing or two about NESing, and he can apply those lessons to his future games. The job of the mod is hardly to ensure that everyone is equal and that we all play fair and nice. I know, that in your NES, you like to arbitrarily decide alot of things - but that, as can be seen in looking at SheepsNES, leads to gross unrealism and a lot of nonsense.
Personally, I think you are just a bit jealous of the successes of others. You did the same thing in Das NES. You denounced a so called "moderator bias" when one did not at all exist. Did you ever think to consider that maybe, just maybe, the problems of your defeats lay not within others but within yourself? There was something else behind Tieh China, Khmeria, Dukunnegeya, and Parhae besides the so called bias. Unlike other mods, das actually weighs the successes or defeats of others based upon grounded realism, statistical advantages, and the planning and skill of the players. That is how a game should be modded. This is not the sandbox, and this is definately not the place for sharing and caring.
If new players want to improve, they have to eat some Humble pie. I've taken some brutal beatings in my NES history, but do I go around blaming others for my faults? My nations are not the greatest in some NESes, but do I go around yelling that the mod is being unrealistic? No. Before you begin to look elsewhere, first look in your own backyard.
ThomAnder
Deity
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2004
- Messages
- 2,237
Do the NPC's have their ecos banked or used at all...? I.e. if i join as Siam would i get to use the eps from previous turns? Also, didn't silver played as Siam for a turn or two, so its stats should be different?
With regards to moderator bias, i think there are such thing, and funnily enough, in my experience Sheep was the benefactor of such bias
With regards to moderator bias, i think there are such thing, and funnily enough, in my experience Sheep was the benefactor of such bias
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
Lurker's Comment: The French will inherit the earth.
Sheep
Orange Shrooms!
Considering I was trying to help moose to become a better mod, I frankly think this is uncalled for. Dasnes, when talking about bias I had my reasons, in fact I was one of several players who thought this. (Finmaster being another for example) What you see on the thread is not the full story. I actually complain mostly by pm or msn. I have my reasons for this, mainly to prevent such flame wars occuring on this thread, but your attacks on me personally have gone to far. Either apologise for these statements or I go have a word to the moderators.
Insane_Panda
Deity
I will not apologize for my statements. And I have in no way attacked you personally. I have merely called a spade a spade.
Sheep
Orange Shrooms!
Once again this uncalled for. New players do need to improve, I wasnt for once suggesting the germanicus should win the war just because he was a noob, but instead shouldnt be smashed so badly in ONE TURN.
Panda, on your other topics, this was all taken into account, and quite frankly this is what I am discussing with Moose over MSN. What you are doing is actually blowing this right out of proportion. Now for your information I am actually just trying to improve moose's modding style, to make this nes even better, but obviously all you are worrying about is attacking me.
Sheep
Orange Shrooms!
No you have personally attacked me, without knowing or even trying to know the full story.
Insane_Panda
Deity
Well, instead of allowing you to have a monopoly on the discussion with moose, so that you could talk to him without anyone else contending your points, I brought it up in the main thread.
If he is smashed so badly, then it is the fault of Symphony for being that skilled. One turn = one year. A lot happens in a year.
alex994
Hail Divine Emperor!
Just a small note, in my first nes two out of three of my nations were destroyed and/or conquered. I learned from those mistakes. It's a fact of life, I got over it and I'm sure he would. Poison in the right amounts can heal.
And just because a ruler was new or so to speak to ruling, let's say Maria of Austria in the War of Succession, the fates were hardly kind to them even if it is a sad thing. Life sucks
Sheep
Orange Shrooms!
And before you go any further, do realise that I have dropped my complaint against the American war. Yes I do not agree that noobs should lose SO badly, but in the end moose is the mod, and so I stopped.
Yes indeed, I agree, however your comments about Germany, I find flawed but unlike you I wont be extending this flame in the thread.
Finally I will be seeking an apology, for you could very well of kept such comments off the thread, and before making such comments at least endevour to find out the WHOLE story.
Yes indeed, I agree, however your comments about Germany, I find flawed but unlike you I wont be extending this flame in the thread.
Finally I will be seeking an apology, for you could very well of kept such comments off the thread, and before making such comments at least endevour to find out the WHOLE story.
