Luonnotars, what am i missing?

[cIV_khanh93]

So, afte I have champions, I can research Strength of will (I havent reached htis point yet, but we could assume i have sorcery already) to get luonnators(sp?). THey have 10 str, magic immunity (which after the recent nerf is only about half as useful against the magic clueless AI) channelling II and III and medic III(not sure?) with a 50% bonus against the heathens who do not support the one. I've heard that luonnators can no longer build the altar. they are disciple units, so they cannot get any arcane spells because they dont start with any (cmon, not even nature I?). Of course, i'll probably go up a bit through the arcane and crank out a bunch of potency adepts and reap the benefits at sorcery, but... why build the luonnators at all?

 

[Thunder_Gr]

No reason. Don't...
Ah, I just remembered, they can learn inquisition(beginning since a not so recent patch) so that you can strip yourself of any benefits a religion accidentally spread in your cities can give you! (Well, yes, I am being sarcastic here)
IMO, it is the most useless unit in the game.

 

[WarKirby]

How exactly is a strength 10 medic unit useless?

It's a heck of a lot more useful than.... a warrior. Or a scout.

Are these a high priest equiv for grigori? or an archmage thing?

 

[DioBrando]

How exactly is a strength 10 medic unit useless?

It's a heck of a lot more useful than.... a warrior. Or a scout.

Are these a high priest equiv for grigori? or an archmage thing?

Druids, iirc.

 

[Thunder_Gr]

High priest equivalent..A sort of...

 

[Thunder_Gr]

How exactly is a strength 10 medic unit useless?

Just try it... Then you tell me.

 

[Jet]

They can get Command, that's something.

Hard enough to get a Medic to level 6 that they should be able to build altars though.

 

[Honor]

I find the Grigori to be useless as a whole to be honest.

 

[cIV_khanh93]

They can get Command, that's something.

Hard enough to get a Medic to level 6 that they should be able to build altars though.

champions can go luonnators too, so i guess luonnator>champion, but i still dont get it.

 

[iffi]

I feel Luonnotar is still a 'project in progress'.

The Finnish name indicates she should be a goddess of the nature. I forget what her unit model currently is but it definitely is not a woman in a flimsy gossamer robe and a long pale hair (I know, a very sterotypical view).

And this: Goddess of nature without any arcane powers over nature?!?

I would like to see her a unique unit similar to Corlindale. Sort of a fake pacifist with summons and maelstorm (or some long forgotten overpowered naturish spell). This should appeal to players and make it worth the research.

 

[Ksi]

I feel Luonnotar is still a 'project in progress'.

The Finnish name indicates she should be a goddess of the nature. I forget what her unit model currently is but it definitely is not a woman in a flimsy gossamer robe and a long pale hair (I know, a very sterotypical view).

And this: Goddess of nature without any arcane powers over nature?!?

I would like to see her a unique unit similar to Corlindale. Sort of a fake pacifist with summons and maelstorm (or some long forgotten overpowered naturish spell). This should appeal to players and make it worth the research.

I've always seen it more as an abandoned project. It got a pretty significant nerf after not being able to build the altar and they weren't really readjusted after. A cool spell or two would be nice but most would be strange from a lore perspective. The new magic "immune" doesn't help either... if someone was really determined they could probably pummel one to death with fireballs.

 

[WarKirby]

This should appeal to players and make it worth the research.

but the point of researching Strength of Will is to get archmages. These guys are just icing on the cake.

unless grigori don't have archmages?

I had alook at the luonnotar. Their strength is quite nice, and I noticed the +50% against disciples. I do agree they need a bit more though.

I'd give them a few spells personally, (though not sure which) and +50% against angels, demons, and undead, too.

I like the unique appearance though. That's reason enough to make me want one.

Any thoughts on what spells would suit them?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I prefer to reduce the Luonnatar's base strength, to let then perform a version of Inquisition ("Enlighten") that removes even the city's owner's state religion from the city, to let them target disciple units in stacks of stronger units, to give them a spell that remove religions from units (including enemy priests, thus depriving them of divine spells), and to move them back to the Philosophy Tech (which I make a little later and more expensive).

 

[WarKirby]

I prefer to reduce the Luonnatar's base strength, to let then perform a version of Inquisition ("Enlighten") that removes even the city's owner's state religion from the city, to let them target disciple units in stacks of stronger units, to give them a spell that remove religions from units (including enemy priests, thus depriving them of divine spells), and to move them back to the Philosophy Tech (which I make a little later and more expensive).

reduce base strength by how much?

Unless they'll be upgradable into super luonnotars later, anything that can come as early as philosophy is going to have to be weak and therefore not so useful later on.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Usually just from 10 to 7 . Note however that Philosophy in my version comes later (it requires Way of the Wicked or Way of the Wise instead of being a prereq for them. Priesthood and Way of the Wicked/Wise require Mysticism instead) and is about 3 times as expensive. Philosophy is also the prereq for the Republic civic in my version.

 

[Verdian]

Perhaps let the Luonnotar benefit from the Altar, regardless of who controls it and how many versions there are? They could get free xp, or free command promotions to show that their words hold more truth. Or they can see into an city with an Altar (such as how Esus spreads) and have to make a pilgrimage to the city to get the benefit. That seems harder for the AI, though.

 

[Lemminkäinen]

Ah, I just remembered, they can learn inquisition(beginning since a not so recent patch) so that you can strip yourself of any benefits a religion accidentally spread in your cities can give you! (Well, yes, I am being sarcastic here)

It can actually be a very needed functionality in order to deny an opponent a religious victory.

I agree with Honor, though, that the Grigori really could use some spicing up. I've tried playing them a couple of times but they are just very vanilla. The Adventurers come really kinda slow after the first two and rob you from using specialists and Great Persons. And not having access to religions is a big hindrance. I mean, the Illians at least get the incredible Priests of Winter to compensate.

 

[Iceciro]

Honestly, with the Grigori I'd really like to see the Adventurer mechanic disconnected from Great People completely. For those of you who've played FF, I'd like to see them done similar to the Scion's awakened - you can create structures that increase the adventurer spawn chance, but every one of those structures in any city works as opposed to just the one in your GP farm (that, as has been said, robs you of great persons and Specialists) and every time you get an adventurer, the chances of getting another dip significantly. Maybe have the chances bump back up some when one or two die, since Cassiel can't life3 resurrect his random heroes.

 

[Capn Charlie]

I'd rather see the grigori given a civ style great commander type counter that spits out adventurers occasionally as you do certain things. Explore lairs, lose units, get in and out of wars, all kinds of crap like that. Except that since you get more of them, they start as hero units of a predetermined type.

Say for instance, you vassalize some random warmonger on your border, and that's what puts you past the mark for a new adventurer, some highly decorated champion returns from the front lines for a life of adventure and service in new wars back home.

 

[Thunder_Gr]

It can actually be a very needed functionality in order to deny an opponent a religious victory.

You are talking about multiplayer here. However, I prefer having cities with religions, so that I can get medics with spells.

I haven't seen anyone winning a religious victory, and, if you wan't to do it against they AI, you have to work too hard for it in a normal game. One of the most difficult to earn Trophies.