Lust for Gold

[carl corey]

mice, I haven't given Military Tradition to anybody. Yet. I've traded a lot with the AIs and my research rate was pretty good too. In the end I even forgot to change to Representation to have some more beakers from Priests but it didn't matter anyway. I was going for hammers, not beakers at that point.

Back to MT. As with Writing for Open Borders, Sailing for sea trade, etc., only one civ needs Military Tradition to be able to form a defensive pact. Why I wouldn't have cared if they asked for it? I was soooo behind in soldiers I couldn't have defended even against Axemen. Sheer numbers would have gotten to me anyway, Cavalry would just make this faster. At one point I was crapping my pants since Caesar was Buddhist and he greeted me with "My Praetorian wants to kick something. How about your @ss?". I converted him to get rid of it. Building a couple of units to defend would have been pointless.

At least with the two defensive pacts on, both Vicky and Caesar would have thought twice before attacking. And Mansa Musa thrice; actually, twice and a half...

Some big mistakes I've made: lost the Spiral Minaret to Caesar. I actually traded him Divine Right thinking there's no way he could beat me to it. He had stone. Must have been stoned myself for starting to build it in the first place. I mean, really, how much would that earn me anyway?! And I also built Chichen Itza for nothing. Instead of those two GP points I could have built two farms and supported another Priest while building more missionaries. A total of maybe 20 missionaries, out of which say 4-5 could fail (maybe more later due to the cities being overreligioned).

All in all, I've been rather pleased with the result. I don't know if I'll try it a second time - building only Missionaries really gets to you after a while. I mean, I think I was the first to Civil Service and Macemen, and I'm training Brother Peter to go and spread the word?! What happened to the good ol' "kind word and a gun" routine?

 

[Betafor]

@ scipian. Maybe she attacked because she was boxed in and needed a resource that you had or felt she wasnt going to do well without more good land. 'Care for borothers of the faith' doesnt mean much to her. I couldnt open your save. What was your total ?

@ Betafor. Yes go for it. Start one up. I've got some other ideas but they dont have the strategic depth of this one. For example,

Mansa, Monarch, Lakes, Raging barbs. See how much population you can get by , say... 300 AD. It would be a tactics test to handle the barbs, and then shoot for food resources.

Another idea is Terra,raging barbs, see how many cities you can found on the other continent by ...1800. something like that. Maybe Isabella again with the conquistadors.

Basically I like the idea of pitting yourself against another human without going to multiplayer. And the strategic discussion.

With this thread I'm still hoping for a save from pigswill and Hans Lemurson( the war approach)

Sure, i'd be happy to, but i would prefer to wait until we declare this one closed(less topics= more concentration of players)

Here's an idea, how about as soon as we get the series going, the winner has the option of taking the next thread(obviously, if he doesnt want to, he doesnt want to)

Depending on the scenario, i would try to keep this on Prince/monarch difficultuty(somewhere in the middle, prince for harder and monarch for easier) since I think i read somewhere this is where most people play anyway.

 

[mice]

So lets set a date to finish. It's approximately Monday in many parts of the world, and I think this thread has had a good run, so I'll say Wednesday 30th is the cut off date.

Re. the idea of the winner setting up the next thread. I don't know. I'm in favour of anyone with a good idea putting it out there. If it appeals to people it'll run, if it doesn't it'll slip down the boards to page 2. But maybe you're right that it should be more structured

I'd prefer too that the next thread wasn't shrine gold. Another idea, max culture /turn in any 1 city by .... whatever AD. Industrial civ, wonders, cathedrals, hammers to temples or military depending on the situation. A mini culture victory competeing with other players. Quite strategic I think.

Re.difficulty level, I agree with you.

 

[pigswill]

Still playing. Up to 1300ad, 6 religions, 4 shrines, not loads of money yet. Still waiting for another couple of prophets to pop for the last two shrines.

 

[Betafor]

So lets set a date to finish. It's approximately Monday in many parts of the world, and I think this thread has had a good run, so I'll say Wednesday 30th is the cut off date.

Well, the 31st is my birthday! = me

Re. the idea of the winner setting up the next thread. I don't know. I'm in favour of anyone with a good idea putting it out there. If it appeals to people it'll run, if it doesn't it'll slip down the boards to page 2. But maybe you're right that it should be more structured

It would have a longer lifespan if it turned into a series, not a collection of ideas, like the ALC or Emporer's challenge. How about a name like - Strategy Challenges (SC) #1 - Max culture per turn in one city by 1600 AD.(The date can vary, but if that was what we chose, there had to be some challenge in it via the date, early means you gotta push, late means you can research mass media) The first post describes the rules of the series, the rules of the challenge, some screenshot and the savegame, along with the cutoff date. Before the next SG, we have a pre-challenge thread to vote on the next challenge(somewhat like the ALC pregame show)

I'd prefer too that the next thread wasn't shrine gold. Another idea, max culture /turn in any 1 city by .... whatever AD. Industrial civ, wonders, cathedrals, hammers to temples or military depending on the situation. A mini culture victory competeing with other players. Quite strategic I think.

See above, if we did this, I would choose Qin(or is it mao?) - The chinese dude that's Ind/Fin

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

A challenge I've been considering is a 3 city cultural challenge - trying to score a cultural victory with no permanent alliances and only three cities. So scoring I suppose would be the total culture in the lowest of the three cities by date.

 

[carl corey]

After two challenges I'm quite willing to continue the series. I'm sure we can find lots of ideas and, as Betafor has said, we could vote for what the next one is.

About the time limit for one challenge. Whatever it is, I think it should include a weekend. I'm pretty much limited to weekends right now if I want a "serious" game. On the other hand, if someone gives good reasons for missing the deadline by one or two days, I wouldn't make a fuss out of it.

We could also revisit some of the most interesting challenges after a while, but for now let's keep it new each time. People will always be able to play the old ones and post their results in those threads even if they won't be "winners", etc.

Oh, and stick to vanilla civ for a while. I have and enjoy Warlords, but others probably don't and it would be a pitty to limit the audience because of a few modifications brought by Warlords. It's not like the ALCs where Sisiutil can receive advice even without us seeing the save, based only on screenshots. We could take a poll after, say, 5-6 challenges and see how many people have Warlords and decide then if we want to switch.

 

[cabert]

i like the "challenges" idea, but like carl corey, won't be able to play any very fast, so deadline should not be too short, and should include a weekend.
+ end date can vary but keep in mind that playing up to modern era takes more time.

some challenge ideas (some good, some soso):
- total gold from religion (same as lust for gold but including modifiers = teching to wall street could have a huge effect)
- switzerland (total gold, regardless of source, including modifiers)
- production powerhouse (max hammers in one city)
- beaker street (max beakers from one city)
- greatest city ever (max number of settled GP)
- greatest city ever II (max total beakers, gold, culture, hammers /turn in one city)
- greatest city ever III (max pop in one city)
- greatest empire ever (max total population)
- greatest empire ever II (max number of techs)
- greatest empire ever III(max number of cities)
- we need a hero (max xp for one unit)
- army of veterans (max number of level 5 units)
- infinite army (max gunpowder units)
- happy nation (best approval rate)
- friends for ever (highest relation modifier towards any other leader)

culture challenge is already mentionned (one or 3 cities)

there is room for some others with warlords (max vassals, max generals, highest xp out of barracks), but vanilla is already offering a good deal of options.
My favourites are the basic ones (beakers/production/gold) because they are basic!
and "friends for ever", since many of us don't know how to use diplomacy.

"we need a hero" is somewhat different, with much luck involved , army of veteran is better

 

[carl corey]

Lol, switzerland.

I think either mice or one of us should start a thread to compile and discuss ideas of new challenges so as not to mix them with the ongoing thread. Then a voting thread would be created before each challenge and then the challenge thread itself. I like the Strategy Challenge name, it's short and to the point.

I also like very much the idea of time limits. How many times have you had a "won" game only to drag it to the end? Maybe win a Space Race victory because you didn't want to bother with a huge war? Some challenges could go all the way to normal victory, but others can have an ealier deadline that would still keep them meaningful. The two previous challenges were both good examples I think.

 

[pigswill]

Well a disappointing but not totally disastrous 104 shrinegold/turn from six shrines.

 

[Lynxx]

Congratulations pigswill on getting 6 shrines!! I wouldnt have been able to get 5.

I am definately up for more challanges like this one, to bad i missed the first one. The idea to have a date to finish by is a very good idea as it becomes easier to judge how long it will take to play the game. When you decide about the next challange keep in mind that some players dont have the best of computers, me for example, and wont be able to play the challanges if it is something like; who can have the biggest army on a huge pangea map by 2000ad...

As for what kind of challange to chose a vote is a good idea, just dont make it last more than a few days as I want the challanges to keep coming .

 

[mice]

Congrats pigswill, nice total. I was surprised to see a caravel in Bangalore but with no "failed to spread" message. Did you forget to put a missionary on it?

Also brilliant diplomacy ratings, and , most conversions on the other continent.

 

[mice]

So the thread title can be ' Strategy competiton # ...."

I'll start a thread for ideas and voting, unless someone beats me to it. (I dont mind if they do)

Yes, Vanilla for now, and I agree that the time limits eg. 1600AD make it better, for the reasons carl corey said.

Playing time ? Maybe 1 week is not enough. How about ,start it on a Friday, finish it the following Sunday pm.

 

[cabert]

So the thread title can be ' Strategy competiton # ...."

I'll start a thread for ideas and voting, unless someone beats me to it. (I dont mind if they do)

Yes, Vanilla for now, and I agree that the time limits eg. 1600AD make it better, for the reasons carl corey said.

Playing time ? Maybe 1 week is not enough. How about ,start it on a Friday, finish it the following Sunday pm.

betafor did a pre challenge thread

 

[mice]

Just to tidy things up, here are the results.

1st ; Lnyxx = 119

2nd ; pigswill = 104

3rd ; parachute4u = 97

4th ; carl corey = 79

5th ; VoiceOfUnreason = 67

6th ; Betafor = 56

7th ; mice = 46

scipian = unknown result

On to the next challenge...

 

[scipian]

Oh. dang. Meant to finish that game. Stupid school. (Just got into a REALLY hard advanced school. Have to study a whole lot).

 

[scipian]

And I was actually doing decently too Oh, well. Next game.

 

[Betafor]

Oh. dang. Meant to finish that game. Stupid school. (Just got into a REALLY hard advanced school. Have to study a whole lot).

Ya, people envy us nerds because they think we breeze through school - what they dont know is that our classes are 10^21.4 harder than theirs.

Time management's a !@#$%, huh.

 

[parachute4u]

In spite of lots of crashes, lockups and RL issues, I managed to finish with 97 gold... That's not heroic, but not so bad as well, I guess.

Should have been more, but Kubilai and Mansa (and later on Asoka) adopted Theocracy quite early.

I conquered two of Indias holy cities, in the 1500s, but none had a shrine in it. I ended up with 5 shrines and a HUGE tech lead (I was running representation and had used a GE to pop the Angkor Wat, so I was building farms exclusively), so I was able to build nothing else than missionaries starting mid 1400s

I could have done better, by conquering the theocratic Mongols instead of indias 2 holy cities and / or capturing all of Mansa's cities, while he was at war with little Julius. (or by avoiding a "surprise" great scientist, that should have been a GP)

Vicci died around 200AD: She had better land than the others and I needed to simplify the situation on my continent.

General approach was, build the Oracle (for CoL), build the Pyramids (for Specialists), build a library (to pop philosophy), beeline to construction and kill Vicci fast. After that I researched as fast as possible to get (CS for even more farms!) caravels and galleons while building a invasion force, infrastructure and monasteries.

I liked the starting pos a lot btw

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/39198/AutoSave_AD-1600.Civ4SavedGame

 

[mice]

Radical strategy ! and successful . Best warmongering result. Pyramids, Angkor Wat and preists. Mansa didnt get anything, so over to the other continent for Asoka. Nice.