[MA] Units

dacubz145

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If you have any idea/suggestions on the following here would be the place to comment it
-New units that should be added
-New Unique Units
-Pedia Entrees
-Changes in Unit Stats
-Better/Different Unit Art
-Which Civs UU's are For

In the future there will be a list here of unit that are being added in the next update. I am not doing it for this update since the units are being completely redone, there are hundreds of new ones.

List of UU's
Medium Tank
Spoiler :
Fiat m13 40 - Same stats as light tank, one extra combat, couple more cost
M4 Sherman - -25% cost, -10% tank
M26 Pershing - stats between medium and heavy tanks
M40 Turan I - I think -10% vs tanks but dont like to add only negative stats since then no reason to be built
Panther - +15% flatland, -10% forest/jungle, +1 combat, -10% vs infantry tanks
Panzer 38t - +20% light tank, -10% tanks (so overall 10% vs light), similar stats to light tank
Panzer III - n/a
Panzer IV - +10% tank
Sherman Firefly - -1 combat, +30% vs tank
T-34 - +10% tank, -10% cost, +tundra, snow
Type 97 - -35% vs tanks, -10% vs vehicle
 
@ aob
What where WW1 planes engines ran on? I know nothing about engines and I was thinking about it and I do not think they used coal or oil, so what did they use?

Also I added a bunch of units, some off the top of my head
-Early Attack Submarine
-Gun Howitzer
-Midget Submarine
-Missile Jet Bomber (Jet bombers post 1970)
-Tactical Nuke (Replaces MRBM and SRBM)
-Improved Light Cruiser (WW2 Light Cruiser)
-Improve Biplane (WW2 Era)

Edit: what should Monoplanes upgrade to? The Peashooter is what I am using as the default unit. Obviously i thought fighter first, but that means monoplanes would be outdated cerca 1937 and that seems a bit early - seems a couple years to early. But if I have it upgrade to 1st Gen Jet Fighter than it would be used untill 1945 - too late

Also: Are there any other worthy biplane torpedo bombers? I mean you being British I know you know of one :lol:. Only other one I can think of is the Fi 167. Where there others (WW2 era):confused: Because if so I might add a seperate class for them since difference between the biplanes and monoplanes is big enough for its own class

And for the third edit: Which other planes should be able to travel on carriers? Torpedo Bombers yes, Heavy bombers no correct? Any others should go on?
 
they used rotary engines(early internal combustion engines) which ran on petroleum

problem is which they planes is the different types cross over, due to limited budgets lots of countries were still making and using biplanes until the late 30s even early 40s in some cases but i think it should go
biplane - monoplane - late 30's/early ww2 planes - later ww2 planes - first gen jets.

the most famous biritsh one we had was the Fairey Swordfish - sank 2 italian battleships.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairey_Swordfish
 
Of course I know of the swordfish, thats why I said you being british you should know :p But are there any other examples? Since I like usually atleast 3 or 4 countries to use something if I put it in.

I agree, and thats the way i placed it to except for the later WW2 planes. I dont have those in yet but I plan on them but I dont think early ones should upgrade to it. Because Earlly WW2 planes weren't always worse than later ones, and im sure many were better, and the later ones definatly did not obsolete the creating of early ones. I think I will have monoplane upgrade to both and then both upgrade to 1st Gen Jet

Ill re-ask because i don't think you saw the last edit in the post
Which other planes should be able to travel on carriers? Torpedo Bombers yes, Heavy bombers no correct? Any others should go on?

Units are almost done (Half way done with fighters, then rest of planes) - they should be done today
 
i couldnt really find any other in big enough numbers worth mentioning, i think the swordfish was the exception.

i see what you mean about the later ww2 planes, would also stop everyone upgrading all there earlier fighters to the later ones so yes i think thats a good call there.

no i didnt see your last edit.
Torpedo Bombers/dive bombers yes and unless you want to add in the doolittle raid in some how then no other bombers no.
 
I want to adventually add Doolittle raid, and it would be easy beside the fact I need to make sure all the B-25's die which would be hard so not in the future

how about other fighters? (Heavy fighter, fighter-bombers?) Both no?

Yeah like I said Fi 167 are the only other ones I heard of but thats probably only because of their connection to the Graf zeppelin carriers - assuming your opinion about adding biplane torpedo bombers (ww2 not ww1) would be no than?
 
no to heavy fighters and fighter bombers

obviously being british i'd like to have the Swordfish ingame but from a mod point of view its not worth adding, you could run it by kiwitt see what he thinks.

speaking of the Graf zeppelin carriers, could do with something in the ww2 scenario so countries like cuba dont start building carriers.
 
Swordfish is already in the game as a torpedo bomber, its just wether or not I would seperate that into its own class of biplane torpedo bomber

There are things we can do, but none I want to do. I can make it so cuba can never build carriers - causes problems obviously in custom game. It can be coded so if it is this scenario, this civ, this unit can;t be built - but then thats a lot of code since you want a bunch of countries and units like that. And that code gets brought up everytime someone goes to build something in their city - not worth lag.

The best thing we can do is make it accurate. Realisticly Cuba could of made a carrier if they wanted - but if they did it would take up to much resources, time etc when they only have 3 cities creating things it would not be worth it. We just need to duplicate that in the scenario, so they could create it if they want, but if they do they will it will probably do more harm then good - since that is the real reason they didnt have one
 
FNP said:
Thoughts on TTT modern navy:

Ship design. Upgrade ships? Conversions were and still are still fairly unique. Hulls and basic mission design don't change much and once you build the hull, you have pretty much “hardwired” the basic ship's characteristics. Ships systems are upgraded e.g. missiles for guns but the basic cruiser is still a cruiser, BB a BB, battle cruiser [BC] a battle cruiser, etc. Speed was one of the primary ship design considerations and a primary consideration when deciding if a ship class was “obsolete”.

Might consider sticking with basic classes and using promotions to differentiate between types within class. The entire ship design process starting around WWI was predicated on screening BB's. A sort of spider to catch the fly design process. Subs sink BB's … build DE's. Torpedo boats sink BB's … build Destroyers. Destroyers also launch torpedos … build light cruisers. Build Cruisers, tinker with BC's. But still, Bbs are the centerpiece.

CV/ CVA/ CVE

Aircraft carriers represent a paradigm changing ship class. Not until it was realized that aircraft could better replace surface guns was the concept firmly established. If the Japanese hadn't sunk or damaged most of the Pacific Fleet BB's and missed the CV's at Pearl Harbor, it might have taken the US another 2 or 3 years to replace the BB by putting the CV at the center of the battle group.

Since aircraft carriers adopted a cruiser hull design [WWI-WWII] they represent the only major class that was produced by “upgrades”. The remaining classes were pretty much “purpose built”. Armored CV decks were first employed by the RN. Many US CV's still lacked armored decks as late as 1944. The armored deck greatly increased the ships ability to sustain damage from aerial bombs and still operate. Wood deck ships were generally put out of action if hit by bombs because of fires started in the hangar deck.

CVE's were another reactive answer to the sub problem. Aircraft turned out to be invaluable in managing the sub threat in WWII and providing at least minimal air escort for smaller task groups.

LPH/ LPA/ LPD

First you need marines, then you need helos, then the carrier “invents itself” as a logical next step. Before that, the transport ships did the job [attack transport ship APA] ... became LPA when helos arrived.

CA / CL/ armored-protected cruiser

Cruiser design changed to adapt to better naval guns, oil fired propulsion systems, and armor piercing shells. Hence the “protected cruiser”. Once again a “purpose built” designs since the basic earlier cruisers and CL designs could not accommodate the extra weight of the necessary armor or heavier guns.

BC

The basic BC design was intended to defeat anything of lesser caliber weaponry or out run anything that outgunned it. The BC “flaw” became apparent when Beatty engaged battleships at Jutland. So while the HMS Hood continued to be a centerpiece of the RN, naval treaty compliance and a strategy rethink resulted in future ships construction focused on BB's and CA's. Germany in an effort to circumvent the naval treaties, continued with a form of BC design, the so called pocket battleship. Unique to GE.

BB

Conceptually not much different than the Line of Battle ship of the age of sail. The centerpiece of the fleets. Continually improved in speed, range, size and effectiveness of the guns. BB screening requirements or need for lower cost substitutes drove the design of other ship classes.

FF / FFG

The Frigate class is probably the most misused classification after the age of sail. I would recommend deletion of the class especially for WWI and WWII. Its missions from the days of sail were transferred to DD, DDE, and to CA and CL classes. Not until missiles replaced guns did the term Frigate come back into use as a lower cost escort ship with missiles replacing guns.

DD/ DDE

Should pretty much cover all the needs to represent small ship classes in the game. Given various promotions, they can represent the remaining combatant classes including those devoted to mine warfare. Might consider the use of special promotions for transports to make them mine layers.

SS

Again, promotions should pretty much allow distinguishing the difference in the various classes. Until the SSN / SSGN/ SSBN arrive. The SSG although first employed in WWII, was not a major ship class but a significant step toward the SSGN/ SSBN.

General comments:

Modern ship designs are only a variation on traditional missions modified by technology and cost avoidance strategies.

Significant technologies:

Impact ship design and naval operations once steam engines and “screws” became the propulsion method:

Wireless/ radio communication
Shells, armor piercing shells
armor
Torpedo
coal to oil fuels
mechanical and electro-mechanical computers for fire control [so called fire control clocks and tables]
cryptology
aviation
radar/ radar directed gunnery
proximity fuse
armored CV deck
combat information centers afloat
Electronic Computers
Nuclear propulsion systems and weapons
Guided Missiles
Artificial intelligence
FNP (Former Navy Pilot) was a significant contributor to the accuracy of my RTW version.

Please consider his comments carefully in the development of all things "Naval"
 
Of course I know of the swordfish, thats why I said you being british you should know :p But are there any other examples? Since I like usually atleast 3 or 4 countries to use something if I put it in.

I agree, and thats the way i placed it to except for the later WW2 planes. I dont have those in yet but I plan on them but I dont think early ones should upgrade to it. Because Earlly WW2 planes weren't always worse than later ones, and im sure many were better, and the later ones definatly did not obsolete the creating of early ones. I think I will have monoplane upgrade to both and then both upgrade to 1st Gen Jet

Ill re-ask because i don't think you saw the last edit in the post
Which other planes should be able to travel on carriers? Torpedo Bombers yes, Heavy bombers no correct? Any others should go on?

WW2 Carriers carried generally three or four types of aircraft: fighters for air defense and escort, dive bombers, and torpedo bombers. A fourth minor class consisted of scouting aircraft, or the IJN embarked horizontal bombers.
 
Sorry didnt see the post you made about the ships, so i will respond now

@Upgrade ships - doesnt suprise me you dont like upgrades since you are pretty historical. I dont really think of it as converting the ship though. I think of it like how you can rush a unit build - it costs close to the same (not sure if its the same, never took time to look) to upgrade it as rush it so it is like you are recycling the ship, using the scrap to help build the new one and you are hurrying it.

@Carriers
So I will give any carriers that are wooden a minus against aircraft. I can give escort carriers a bonus vs submarines but it was really the aircraft that should get the bonus correct? I cant really do that, a bonus while on a ship and not while on others. Beside that other points not much I can do in CIV

@ LPH/ LPA/ LPD
Sounds good

@ CA / CL/ armored-protected cruiser
Not sure how to put that in

@ BC
So a negative % vs battleships and a high withdraw chance?

@Frigates
What would you put the WW2 frigates under than? Ex. Loch class frigate where would you put it under?

@Techs, mos tof them had in mind but I will definatly add all of those
 
CVE's ... yes it is the aircraft. Doesn't matter if the aircraft are embarked or shore based. Capability vs subs is the same. CVE just provided an "airfield" in the middle of the ocean.
 
BC's: In the game, the best method of showing their strength is increased withdrawal chance vs BB. But if they are hit by major caliber it goes very badly.
 
FF class. I would recommend dropping it altogether and using a DDE instead.
 
Only America used Destroyer Escorts though - while frigates where much more widely used regardless of wether the name was used back then. Predreadnoughts where obvoiusly not called predreadnoughts then so can't say the names are to important as long as the purposes are down
 
Only America used Destroyer Escorts though - while frigates where much more widely used regardless of wether the name was used back then. Predreadnoughts where obvoiusly not called predreadnoughts then so can't say the names are to important as long as the purposes are down

A rose by any name ... My bust on DDE the WWII term was DE.

Approx 1022 DE's built in WWII. My references list 311 UK WWII flower and castle corvettes, and 151 river class frigates. Additionally the UK converted all remaining V and W class WWI DD's to destroyer escorts for WWII.

Pick a name you like for small anti-submarine sea going class ships.
 
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