Mad Scientists Embassy

Just say, very simply, that both teams knew that we couldn't stop their workboat from wandering straight through our waters, because we didn't have sailing, so whether we "agreed" that they would have free passage for nothing in return or not is moot. Say that we suggested it to try and be friendly with them, but they rebuffed all other offers of cooperation with us.

It paints the picture, fairly, that we tried to be nice and give them the oppurtunity to work to work with us as equals, but that they acted like jerks (in our eyes) and tried to take advantage of our position. All we have to say is that we only trapped their workboat after they rejected several different offers to work together, and because they were not being friendly, so that we took advantage of our position afterwards. I doubt anybody would expect you to give a free view into your capital, and scouting for nothing in return.
 
1889 said:
We had many choices. One of our choices was to suggest, without any prompting from Cav, that they declare war and pass through with our promise of safe conduct. They accepted this suggestion and so we came to what was a mutually acceptable deal, which they have fully lived up to.

To present it otherwise is to put us in a position where we must be careful that the truth doesn’t get out.

You are basically saying that we should bend over and take it because we said Cavs could go straight through, even though we had no power to stop tem in the first place?

AT has the point fairly well illustrated. If we had said "Don't enter our borders" then when they declare war to go straight through because we can't stop them then they seem aggressive, but we also seem like jerks ourselves. What we did was offer our friendship.

If we had refused Cavs entry to our lands, then we would have seemed arrogant and selfish like Cavs are themselves, and one possible reason that we want to work with MS is that we have no one else to work with, but the overall view would have been that we are jerks who loko after number one.

As it was, our actions show MS that we tried to be nice, and work with Cavs, but we were not going to give them a free lunch. Does it reflect brilliantly on us? Not really, but we do not seem like jerks, and because of G_Ws' actions in chats and emails in addition to our ingame actions, we are indicating that we sincerely want to be part of a working alliance and are not just a selfish team looking out for number one, but do not try to screw us over because we will take actions against it. We need to indicate the amount of time that we took trying to figure out ways to work with Cavs, and that is was all their fault everything fell through, not ours, and we gave them multiple options before we decided to trap the wb.

At the end of our turn, MS are going to see Zuur, so that is going to be the stick to the carrot that is the trade alliance. I hope they see the significance of that.
 
[rant]If by "bend over and take it" you mean let them sail 4-5 more tiles, yes. Remember since we were so helpless we offered them the Path of Bending Over and Taking It in which we suggest that they declare war and we would neither defend ourselves nor be mad about it later.

That was our choice. We ignored choices that made them have to offer a deal themselves or consider the ramifications of a war declaration that early in the game.[/rant]
 
No – I haven’t been able to catch him :sad:

I propose we just send them a letter.
Here’s my rough draft:

version 1
Namaste Peter.
The Ninjas salute all the Mad Scientists.

Since Ninja General_W (who does not speak about himself in the third person), has continually failed to catch up with Peter Grimes – we decided the time had come to just write a formal letter.

A Glorious Era of Peace
First – let us extend our thanks for the new peace treaty. We salute you as friends and look with great optimism towards the future of our two peoples. We still haven’t seen that officially signed version… so we’ve taken the liberty of drafting a seal you may want to use. If you like it – it’s yours royalty free! ;) We can even send you higher resolution versions if you’d like. The Ninjas are a formal people, and we put great stock in proper ceremony… so we humbly request that you please attach this seal (or one of your own devising) and return the treaty at your earliest convenience.

The Others
Peter asked about the ones called “Cavaleiros” – and if we had attacked one of their explorers. We have done no such thing. To the contrary, we have tried several approaches to build a friendly relationship with them, and been continually rebuffed. Rather than work with us – they opted to declare war and move through our territory that way. While there have been no “real” hostilities yet, things aren’t exactly friendly.

But beyond any petty squabbles over workboats and exploring – our wisemen (those who watch the tea leaves for hints about the goings-on in strange lands) have observed a series of trades and behaviors between the Cavalerios and the Kazakhs. We’ve mentioned this before, and don’t want to belabor the point… we just want to emphasize our belief that we have a natural opportunity to cement an alliance to counter-balance an emerging technology powerhouse. We also have some concern that the Cav-Kaz alliance may try to trick you into helping them in their push for Civil Service. We just want you to be aware that anything you help them with will almost certainly flow to the other team. (example: we believe you traded Iron Working to the Cavaleiros, who then turned around and immediately gave it to the Kazaks. Unless we misread your involvement there?)

The Big Idea
So here’s what we’re thinking – we haven’t fully formulated this yet (hence our desire to chat more informally… but oh well) – but we want to get this out on the table so we can start talking business. We’d like a tech alliance with you. We’re willing to beeline straight to alphabet (and indeed, we’ve started working on writing already). We’re willing to trade you writing, alphabet, Metal Casting, etc… the whole of Ninja knowledge. In exchange we’d like any knowledge you have that we lack – and to form a tech-trading embargo against the Cav-Kaz alliance. Hopefully – one of us will find Saturn soon, and we could bring them in on this deal so that we don’t end up on the wrong side of a 3v2 world.

Obviously this is just a starting point. We very much would like to hear what you think about such an idea and how we can best make it work for you.

Looking forward to hearing back from you soon.

Your friends,
General_W, Daimyo of State, SANCTA

Peace is now certain
But threatening clouds gather
Join hands for success.


For your consideration:
EinstienMS_logo.jpg

Thoughts?
 
Something you could add in, which is a lot more important now Stuy is dead, is which direction MS are from where we met, so we don't have to explore in that direction with Barentz.

Nice trick with the IW line BTW. And with the blaisé description of the Cavs/SANCTA relationship.

On the whole, I like it. Best sent within the next 12 hours though.
 
G_W to add more weight to your letter point our that Kaz just went past 100 GNP this turn as we are guessing they built an Academy. (106 to be exact). so that is powerful.
 
ok - that's a good change Memphus.
Thanks to everyone else for the positive comments.

I'll send this in about 3 hours if there are no further comments before then?
version 1.2
Namaste Peter.
The Ninjas salute all the Mad Scientists.

Since Ninja General_W (who does not speak about himself in the third person), has continually failed to catch up with Peter Grimes – we decided the time had come to just write a formal letter.

A Glorious Era of Peace
First – let us extend our thanks for the new peace treaty. We salute you as friends and look with great optimism towards the future of our two peoples. We still haven’t seen that officially signed version… so we’ve taken the liberty of drafting a seal you may want to use. If you like it – it’s yours royalty free! ;) We can even send you higher resolution versions if you’d like. The Ninjas are a formal people, and we put great stock in proper ceremony… so we humbly request that you please attach this seal (or one of your own devising) and return the treaty at your earliest convenience.

The Others
Peter asked about the ones called “Cavaleiros” – and if we had attacked one of their explorers. We have done no such thing. To the contrary, we have tried several approaches to build a friendly relationship with them, and been continually rebuffed. Rather than work with us – they opted to declare war and move through our territory that way. While there have been no “real” hostilities yet, things aren’t exactly friendly.

But beyond any petty squabbles over workboats and exploring – our wisemen (those who watch the tea leaves for hints about the goings-on in strange lands) have observed a series of trades and behaviors between the Cavalerios and the Kazakhs. We’ve mentioned this before, and don’t want to belabor the point… we just want to emphasize our belief that we have a natural opportunity to cement an alliance to counter-balance an emerging technology powerhouse. Togeather, they're going to be very powerful, as just this turn - we observed the Kazak economy soar past the 100 GNP mark (must have built an academy?). We also have some concern that the Cav-Kaz alliance may try to trick you into helping them in their push for Civil Service. We just want you to be aware that anything you help them with will almost certainly flow to the other team. (example: we believe you traded Iron Working to the Cavaleiros, who then turned around and immediately gave it to the Kazaks. Unless we misread your involvement there?)

The Big Idea
So here’s what we’re thinking – we haven’t fully formulated this yet (hence our desire to chat more informally… but oh well) – but we want to get this out on the table so we can start talking business. We’d like a tech alliance with you. We’re willing to beeline straight to alphabet (and indeed, we’ve started working on writing already). We’re willing to trade you writing, alphabet, Metal Casting, etc… the whole of Ninja knowledge. In exchange we’d like any knowledge you have that we lack – and to form a tech-trading embargo against the Cav-Kaz alliance. Hopefully – one of us will find Saturn soon, and we could bring them in on this deal so that we don’t end up on the wrong side of a 3v2 world.

Obviously this is just a starting point. We very much would like to hear what you think about such an idea and how we can best make it work for you.

Looking forward to hearing back from you soon.

Your friends,
General_W, Daimyo of State, SANCTA

Peace is now certain
But threatening clouds gather
Join hands for success.


For your consideration:
EinstienMS_logo.jpg
EDIT: SENT! To Peter and Mad Scientist e-mail
 
oops - let this go longer than intended.
Sending now!
:salute:
 
not good...

MS have met Kaz, or Kaz has met MS.

meaning presumable Kaz knows everyone (has OB with everyone but us)
Cav could know everyone but my bet is they don't know saturn because we chocked them.

Oh yes and worse news, MS traded Sailing to Kaz this turn, so expect Cav to have it next turn.
 
We have trade routes with Kaz and MS; we could ask for OB with MS and try to get some extra commerce from the trade routes, or we could hope that we get the OB with Cav and get the trade routes with them when they get sailing. I think that would be preferable, as Cavs have 5 cities, so we would get all 5 trade routes, whereas MS have only 4 cities and so we would only get 4 trade routes and hence 1 less commerce per turn.

From General Discussion Thread.
 
No one commented... :(

We have Open Borders with Ms now. Trading only. not units.

Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0002-20.jpg


But then they said this. I have no idea what they are talking about. The Cav war?
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0003-22.jpg


BTW we can't see a bonus yet. i checked :cry:
 
Trade routes don't update to next turn. (MS get them for this turn, we get them next turn).

I don't understand what they mean by war either though...? I don;t think they understand that trade routes won;t get updated until end of their turn...
 
beats me! :confused:

But for the record - I'm glad we got an OB deal with them! :clap:
 
Didn't we accidentally declare on them when we met? I think he is saying they aren't getting a bonus for long peace - they are only getting 1 cpt.
 
*Shrug* It'll improve. We wouldn't have had a bonus for long peace anyway, as there isn't a peace treaty when you havent met yet AFAICS, and as we got peace back the turn we met, the war would not have had an effect...
 
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