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Mafia Game: The Lord of the Rings (Game Thread)

Discussion in 'Mafia/NOTW' started by Camikaze, Jan 19, 2010.

  1. Earthling

    Earthling Chieftain

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    :lmao::rotfl::lol:

    I really would like to think you don't actually believe this, for your sake. Though, I continue to find it hard to believe YOU have misread the game so ATROCIOUSLY.

    Considering it seems you directly worked/contributed to get ATPG killed, and have failed so many times since then, again, I'd really like to think you are corrupted, and actually have an iota of something behind what you're doing.

    Also, those who are cult-worshipping Winston fall into this boat; my impression, for instance, is that several of the elves themselves, possibly Renata, are at their own fault for getting a lot of info to sprig, at least as much as ATPG or anyone. And treating Winston as a "savior" since then has not gone anywhere.

    Anyway, about the last night then, it's surprising to the point of straining credulity that it appears Theoden was Ugluk. Especially given his other powers/abilities used in the game, I really would not have found that likely. So, the incredibly quick trigger-fingers on a real lack of evidence above notwithstanding; it's obvious that CAMIKAZE SPECIFICALLY WROTE THAT WRITEUP TO AVOID CONFIRMING WHETHER UGLUK WAS DEAD OR NOT. If this is not intentional at all I suggest he edit in "Saruman mourns the loss of Ugluk" or something but I suspect he won't, because it is intentional.

    It's also possible Isengard is being punished for Bad Player cheating by posting after he died (or of course that someone roleblocked them, but if someone did that I assume they would come forward). Considering if he truly was Mafia then Bad Player contributed to lynching Theoden and so on I'd congratulate Camikaze on a reasonable move if that's what up (again, not expecting to be confirmed for now for sure, but just in case Camikaze missed it before, nice and blue here as I guess we're supposed to do); my humor would have maybe had something like "Ugluk trips on a root and has to go crying home for a bandage" but this sounds like that could have happened too, though I'd say it's less likely than Isengard choosing not to kill.

    So the next sneaky possibly is that I of course have been worried that Isengard specifically took a night off from killing, and it seems they did, because even if Ugluk's really dead I highly doubt Saruman can't kill on his own. That makes no sense for game balance, that if at anytime during the game Ugluk was killed they'd simply be powerless after that. It would be great if we could have verified who Wormtongue is/was if dead but it appears we can't. But the update makes it clear some Isengard is dead, so at least if it not's Ugluk it's still Wormtongue and there's only two of them left, which is good.

    Anyway, if Theoden was clearly Innocent (Ugluk and Saruman attacked) I would have voted for Takhisis next; Takhisis still has not cleared his name with his full about-face accusations and contributing to killing Theoden too. But we'll perhaps have to spare him through one more Caturday if the list is just down to Takhisis, classical hero (and me) I'll be onboard with whomever we have the best evidence against - and that includes actually anyone else who it turns out we don't have proof of Innocence, say OST or CCRunner.

    Actually, with the slew of posts above, it's vote: Takhisis who does get my vote today. If everyone gets their votes in we'll even be spared another Caturday. And of course his flawed logic goes away too; well more like lies, in making up things that didn't happen, which he's done about several of my posts lately, perhaps finding me a convenient target.

    I think it's entirely clear why I'm definitely not Saruman; that shouldn't make a lick of sense to anyone who thought about it for half a second. Even more implausible than Theoden being Ugluk but if that's so I can live with it, we do have a chance of finding Saruman yet.
     
  2. TheLastOne36

    TheLastOne36 Chieftain

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    No you already voted. :p

    I think this confirms my innocence though.

    edit: Oh and Earthling crossposts to stop me from stalking.
     
  3. Takhisis

    Takhisis is it fall yet

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    up yours!
    Man, when I switched my vote to Autolycus and made it 4-3 you immediately switched to classical_hero to tie it again. Then TLO got him full in the face.
    So, there's exactly two remaining mafia from Camikaze's writeup. One's Beefy187 (why should he run away from every lynch?) and the other's you who tried to save the orc-guy.
     
  4. TheLastOne36

    TheLastOne36 Chieftain

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    I do agree with Earthling though, now there is a good chance we killed Ugluk, Winston, I highly suggest you give an innocent the ring tonight.
     
  5. Takhisis

    Takhisis is it fall yet

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    up yours!
    First, let's see who we can lynch during the day.
     
  6. TheLastOne36

    TheLastOne36 Chieftain

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    Curious though, maybe one of Takhisis's goals is to become king of the Rohan?
     
  7. Takhisis

    Takhisis is it fall yet

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    up yours!
    Honestly, no. I didn't have to either save or kill Théoden. All I had was the 'heir to the throne' status.
     
  8. Earthling

    Earthling Chieftain

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    See, this is specifically meant to be a lie/give a false impression and you know it. Really, one of several times you've lied about me lately. I did not switch my vote to try to swing anything at the last second just because it was, I had told everybody hours/half a day earlier that I wouldn't be around, and when I got back I would vote however I could to try to save Theoden, which I did.

    Anyway, since you two don't appear to understand, let's throw this out:

    Why I'm obviously not Saruman:

    -I would have died to save Theoden, who you currently believe to be Ugluk. Doesn't make sense.
    -I had the same "general role" as Sauron, and furthermore a horrible cover role at that. Would have been ridiculous if Saruman and Sauron were both fake roles in exactly the same way that could be outed.
    -I haven't had access to any information about what the Innocents have been doing the whole time; if you think Saruman did, he's not me.
    -And lastly if I had any way to order Beefy or Autolycus around I would have; I don't think there's really going to be a single thing in the whole vote history where I've been remotely connected to those two attempting something as a Mafia; well again I'm not sure Autolycus WAS a Mafia but Camikaze appears to currently be being cruel. Thanks to those who caused Snerk to waste his scans apparently investigating the dead Nictel and Methos and their crazy ent antics or whatever else those were used up on.
    -Actually doubly lastly; if I was Saruman there's no way at all I wouldn't have killed last night; in fact, I probably wouldn't have ordered many at all of the killings that were ordered. In fact, Renata and Winston would have been dead 10 ways so long ago it's not even funny.
     
  9. TheLastOne36

    TheLastOne36 Chieftain

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    If you were lynched instead and you were Saruman, it's possible that you would be unlynchable, and thus save both you and Ugluk.
     
  10. choxorn

    choxorn Watermelon Headcrab

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    It makes perfect sense if you can't die while the rest of Isengard is alive.

    EDIT: Crosspost with TLO.
     
  11. Earthling

    Earthling Chieftain

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    And then you'd lynch us both sequentially the next days? Think a little bit before coming up with something obviously wrong? If Theoden really was Ugluk I'm glad we got him but it's a mistake to lynch me today...I had and have a sneaking suspicion of course that no matter WHO Autolycus really was you'd still accuse me; if he was scum you'd assume I was, if he was Innocent you'd assume I was. Not really much I can do there. And it doesn't make a lot of sense that both Saruman and Wormtongue were unlynchable, that's a really odd set-up for Isengard too...possible Beefy is still Saruman of course are my thoughts.

    edit: xpost - choxorn you're dead and also wrong, so please, don't try to influence the lynch; I know you're not Mafia so you're not actually hurting another side, (I do think it's unfair if a dead Innocent/Mafia says something to hurt living Mafia/Innocents) but still...

    Oh, I will say something though, if Isengard DID choose not to kill, I'm incredibly pleased with how my various posts on that worked out. Considering that they wouldn't kill me (I tried before but I'm guessing Beefy/whomever saw through it) tricking them into not attempting a kill at all is at least something; they can't want Winston alive either and if made them hesitate then HA. They might have even forgotten about what I'm guessing is another protective item - the Light of Earendil; anyway, Winston really ought to get the Ring and protection to someone else at this point, but if Isengard miscalculated that's a nice boon, they may not have as easy of a time ahead as they thought.

    :p and :smug: from me!
     
  12. Beefy187

    Beefy187 Chieftain

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    Vote: Beefy
     
  13. Earthling

    Earthling Chieftain

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    Here's the thing; I honestly believe Beefy wanted Takhisis dead. So that's a real puzzle given the possible roles; if Beefy was Wormtongue at this point, he'd have absolutely zero reason not to vote for Saruman (and that's what he was trying to do before then, kill his master), given he has/thinks he has some way to escape/convert to Innocent or something. Beefy being Saruman, which I also see as likely, would mean then that Takhisis was more likely Innocent though, but his recent behavior is awful scummy.

    Anyway, I will propose the following, because I course I want to be reasonable to the Innocents:

    I want to see Takhisis and classical hero lynched before I'm lynched. If it comes down to that and there are no new updates regarding Mafia disappearing at night I can see why you'd have to vote me, even though I'd be annoyed. But at that point if it's not either of them the Mafia probably have it anyway. Certainly no different from lynching me first and then those two when it's obvious I'm Innocent but still, gives us something to work with, because:

    If Isengard are maintaining any sort of "charade" where they CHOOSE not to kill to frame me or something, then keeping me alive means they can't do anything or would have to reveal their hand (would have to reveal who's still alive to carry out kills or something). If Isengard just sits and doesn't kill another night, I can't possibly think of anything better - because if it does go down as just lynching us three, with the rest of all the core/confirmed Innocents alive, we'd either win or still be strongly in it. In short, lynching me today is what would work out really poorly, because then Isengard may even laugh and go back to killing tonight.

    If that's even unpalatable though, but I really have no clue what some people even think they're thinking, there is one other solution - purposefully set up a tie vote between myself/Takhisis/classical hero, and wait for Beefy to break it and reveal his hand. Or if he doesn't break it there's still at least a random chance the vote goes to a Mafia (ie. not me :))

    I can guarantee, however, the Innocents will get zero steps closer to both lynching a Mafia, and learning anything about how any of the Mafia are voting, if they just have like 9 other players bandwagon me. So let's get some reasonable plan of what to do today guys.
     
  14. TheLastOne36

    TheLastOne36 Chieftain

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    Winston is right, you do talk in certeinties. We do not know if you are innocent.

    And why Classical_Hero before you btw?
     
  15. Earthling

    Earthling Chieftain

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    Because he's my other suspect now, if you guys are being honest about CCRunner and OST being scanned Innocent (and if not you really shouldn't lie about that in public). If it's not Takhisis- I know it's still not me - so it'd be classical hero. But in short if all three of us died that leaves 7 Innocents and Beefy, or 6 Innocents if somehow Takhisis/classical hero isn't Mafia. So if the Innocents did this and even if they really hated me they still wouldn't have lost anything really, and just about narrowed things down to an endgame. I think if we get both of them we either find who another Mafia is or finish the game entirely though, so of course that's why I want them to be first.

    And also, importantly, like I said if Isengard has anything they're doing as a "trick" at all regarding not killing/Ugluk still being alive, etc... they probably would be forced to wait until I was dead to reveal it. Or, if say we lynch Takhisis today and Isengard comes out doing something tonight, then that would clear my name, likely close to proving Theoden/me Innocent.

    By the way, for those who think some sort of absolutely crazy-off-the-wall reason to lynch people is "kinda how they talk" then from now on, just consider every single statement I write to begin with something like, "Given the evidence available the most likely scenario possible involves the following:" I can't even begin to describe how annoyingly weird that is to bother with otherwise. Or else you all should vote Takhisis solely on his "pun" alone.
     
  16. Takhisis

    Takhisis is it fall yet

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    up yours!
    What do you mean, Autolycus is not Uglúk? When PaulusIII was inactive then Camikaze always posted 'Shelob did not kill tonight', indicating that she was still alive.
    So, Saruman's lost a servant.
     
  17. Earthling

    Earthling Chieftain

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    I don't believe you're that dense. Of course, I'm thinking it's highly likely you're Ugluk anyway, so I don't really care either if you want to appear dense.

    Anyway, several reasons why it doesn't seem to add up that Autolycus was Ugluk:

    -Autolycus had an ability Ugluk clearly wouldn't have been expected to have; forcing people to vote like he did. Furthermore, he already USED this ability in a way completely unbefitting a Mafia; if he was Isengard he utterly wasted his ability to try to kill Gollum which doesn't even make sense. Why wouldn't he use this ability again/use it now to save himself if he was Ugluk? And Beefy also claims the ability to manipulate votes, yet didn't save Autolycus either?

    -Ugluk being the ONLY person able to kill on Isengard also doesn't make sense. Isengard was already smaller and more vulnerable than Mordor in theory; if killing Ugluk means they're done for, that seems WAY too easy. So I'm led to guess that, even if Ugluk is dead, Saruman is doing something sneaky on purpose.

    Here you'll note Camikaze did NOT say "Saruman was inactive tonight." If Saruman kills the next night (and I suspect he will, unless Ugluk is still around) are you going to act shocked that Camikaze somehow misled you on that? And your analysis is incorrect anyway; we didn't get confirmation "Sauron was inactive" or something the whole time he didn't have the Ring. Furthermore, the post specifically does not suggest inactivity:
    -I do believe Isengard did only have 3 on their team. However, Autolycus as Ugluk could make FOUR. Why? Because it still seems rather likely Bad Player was Isengard. Bad Player wasn't Ugluk or Saruman but now I'm more inclined to believe he was Wormtongue; if Autolycus was Ugluk and dead, we'd be left with just Beefy as Saruman.

    Anyway, that's my position now and I'll be sticking to it.
    -Bad Player was Wormtongue (and dead)
    -Beefy is Saruman
    -Takhisis is Ugluk (or classical hero if not)

    I still would of course love if the Innocents would agree to lynch Takhisis first or perhaps something like get a 4-4 or 5-5 tie between me and him so Beefy would be forced to speak up, or we'd at least go to a coin flip. But hey, I'm willing to die for the right cause anyway.

    At this point I just ask, that if you choose to lynch me today, and then find out of course I'm entirely Innocent and Isengard's back to doing whatever tonight, that you KILL Takhisis next post-haste. Any situation where Takhisis is dead before Night Seventeen sounds pretty good to me, and I think it's rather crucial for the Innocents, and if it's going to be a straight lynch on him we probably do want a clear majority so nobody is manipulating votes.
     
  18. Takhisis

    Takhisis is it fall yet

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    up yours!
    You're not quoting the part about Saruman 'stewing over his loss'. That means that we were right and Autolycus was a member of the Isengard clique.
     
  19. Earthling

    Earthling Chieftain

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    No, it does not. C'mon. It clearly does not even say his "recent" or "today's loss." Yes, it is very good news that we have confirmation of an Isengard dead, but I'm guessing this was Wormtongue.

    Furthermore the fact that YOU have been the one to champion "this PROVES Autolycus was guilty" cause is really odd. If it was another random Innocent I could accept the mistake; with you, it seems clear that you really want everybody to believe this. It's clearly not necessarily the case and everyone can see Camikaze did not make it explicit in the writeup; because it may not be true. The fact that I/the Innocents in general tricked you and Beefy into not killing anyone last night is probably what gets you angry; you thought you'd have an easy chance to frame me and add to the confusion I bet. It's a good thing you don't have three left because you won't have a voting majority yet even if you lynch me and kill tonight :)p) and again, I'll make this perfectly clear:

    IF WE DO NOT KILL TAKHISIS BEFORE I DIE, AND IF YOU DO LYNCH ME AND SEE I'M INNOCENT, EVISCERATE TAKHISIS NEXT ASAP.

    In fact, forget classical hero, I don't know if he's legit at this point but I don't even see him being as much of a danger. If both you and me dying doesn't solve things for the Innocents they can decide what's next. So about this - if we lynch Takhisis today, I will be done posting any more "facts" or whatever you all collectively don't like about me saying anything. I'll just be done posting anything except to vote quietly from now on. And if Takhisis is not Mafia, you can lynch me tomorrow and I won't really have anything to fight against it. He just needs to die.
     
  20. Takhisis

    Takhisis is it fall yet

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    up yours!
    Reeeally? Nah. I've already said it. Whenever a character with a kill ability did not kill, Camikaze posted it on the night's update.
    See night one, when Shelob didn't kill anyone; night three, when Sauron tried to kill because he had the ring and failed; see Night four, when he forgot to kill; and Night Thirteen, when Uglúk was alive but did not kill.
     

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